The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 11, 2020, 02:30 PM   #1
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 4,881
300 Sherman

Anybody here work with 300 Sherman? How was it? What OAL’s are you loading?
Nathan is offline  
Old January 12, 2020, 02:48 PM   #2
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,844
First I've heard of yet another answer to an unasked question. I do see that Sherman does not put any load data on their site. They do show several variations of cartridge.
The cartridges and the lack of load data were discussed, very briefly, on these pages way back in 2013. It won't help though.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=524318
There is a bit of completely unknown source data(likely not properly tested too) here via Sherman's site here.
https://www.longrangehunting.com/thr...s-here.213658/
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old January 12, 2020, 04:23 PM   #3
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 4,881
Let me help you with the question... people love 30-06. Then people said what if I could have more power for elk, moose, bear and maybe longer range.

Then the gun companies made 300 Win Mag. Great! Except, it had way more recoil and lost a round in the mag. Then the belt issues...

So, how do I get 100-150FPS more out of a 30-06? Without the negatives?
Nathan is offline  
Old January 12, 2020, 10:40 PM   #4
old roper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2007
Posts: 1,915
https://shermanwildcatcartridges.com/300-sherman

I think Sherman is pretty close to the 30 Gibbs.

They shorten neck blew case out like AI, maybe gained 5/6gr more case capacity.

https://loaddata.com/Cartridge/30-Gibbs/907

I shoot 35 WhelenAI and next one is going to be Brown Whelen which has shorter neck.
__________________
Semper Fi
Vietnam 1965
VFW Life member
NRA Life Member
old roper is offline  
Old January 12, 2020, 11:30 PM   #5
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 6,581
Nathan: Rather than asking for 100 to 150 fps more from the 30-06,what is a bullet weight/velocity you would be happy with?
HiBC is offline  
Old January 13, 2020, 03:49 PM   #6
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 4,881
200 gr bullet at 2800fps, would be fine performance from a 0.473” bolt face to keep mag capacity and reasonable priced good brass.
Nathan is offline  
Old January 13, 2020, 04:15 PM   #7
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 6,581
OK My trusty Nosler Load book shos RE-22 will toss a 200 gr partition at 2768 fps with a 94 % case fill with a 30-06 Ackley.

The 32 fps its short is within "margin of error"Maybe newer gen powders will get you there.

And,every rifle s different.Of course,many an AI shooter wwill achieve velocities not in the book,prudent or not.

Not suggesting ignoring max,but appropriately,there is some margin of error.

For example,it CAN be that the guy who keeps records, who buys 8 lb jugs of powder,always using the same lot, bys 500 virgn brass rather than nrange pickup,requires less margin than the guy who buys 1 lb at a time,with a different lot each time.

I've used my chrono to watch velocity gains to coincide with charge increases to find my "max" when I gained less velocity with a charge ncrease.

BTW,these usually agree very closely with published data

And,if 4 loadings gets me looser primer pockets,its too hot.

I'm not avocating being reckless,but a different load book may show variance enough for 32 fps.

Grand scheme of things32 fps won't make or break anything.Its just a number. What if a foot was only 11 inches,,or a second was 1.01 second?

We pick a number off a page,but what does it mean?Does it gain you 25 yds range?

Last edited by HiBC; January 13, 2020 at 04:43 PM.
HiBC is offline  
Old January 13, 2020, 09:15 PM   #8
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 4,881
In a 22” barrel?
Nathan is offline  
Old January 13, 2020, 11:46 PM   #9
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 6,581
Picky,Picky!! No.24 in. However!!

This is Nosler's 5th edition,for traceability..A Mr Pat Mundy wrote the intro to the cartridge on page 313. I quote :

"Switch to 180 gr bullets and slow powder and velocity can incease to well over 2900 fps"
The data shows 2985 with RE 22 and a 180

With your criteria of a .473 case heas...it comes real close to what you ask for.

Last edited by HiBC; January 14, 2020 at 01:47 PM.
HiBC is offline  
Old January 14, 2020, 11:20 AM   #10
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 4,881
You’re not wrong. What is wrong with 300 Sherman, I would ask....

Looks like he is ordering Hornady dies. Reamer rental is reasonable.

Case forming is:
Get some 270 cases.
Expand to 30 caliber....should be one step with new brass.....maybe 2, if I get neck splits.
Load up mild load with bullet in the lands of cheapest 30 cal bullet. Maybe 110’s or more likely the 150’s.
Then run through the Annealeez
Reload as usual

30-06 AI has lower performance, but similar cost dies.

Some will say 300WM, but who needs the belt and the blast! That diameter will cost a round in the mag.
Nathan is offline  
Old January 14, 2020, 12:48 PM   #11
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 6,581
I know nothing about the 30 Sherman. As far as I know,Sherman was Peabody's sidekick on the Bullwinkle show.
Follow your bliss. Enjoy!

I do suggest that before you invest heavily,come up with any die/cartridge brass combination that will allow you to experiment with necking brass up.

We are not concerned about creating a known cartridge. The exercise is puely about shoving an expander plug through a case neck to dee how well a decapping spindle and expander plug "necks up". See if you like the results.
HiBC is offline  
Old January 14, 2020, 01:19 PM   #12
old roper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2007
Posts: 1,915
HIBC, You need to finish Quote.

This is Nosler's 5th edition,for traceability..A Mr Pat Mundy wrote the intro to the cartridge on page 313. I quote :

I rely on 150gr grain BT for deer, but velocity is only about 100fps faster than standard 30-06. Don't get me wrong, the load hits very hard, even at long range. "Switch to 180 gr bullets and slow powder and velocity can incease to well over 2900 fps --Plenty of thump for elk. This velocity results in energy comparable to several of the 300 magnums with less recoil."
__________________
Semper Fi
Vietnam 1965
VFW Life member
NRA Life Member
old roper is offline  
Old January 14, 2020, 01:46 PM   #13
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 6,581
Old Roper: Seems like you covered it for me. Thanks.
HiBC is offline  
Old January 15, 2020, 09:54 AM   #14
old roper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2007
Posts: 1,915
Problem with 30-06 it has low spec pressure than 270/308. I just guess but don't think Nosler upped the pressure for 30-06AI. They upped load 1.5 gr more than 30-06 for 200gr bullet using same powder/bullet/barrel(Lilja)/twist/length.

Sherman upped pressure maybe to 65K.
__________________
Semper Fi
Vietnam 1965
VFW Life member
NRA Life Member
old roper is offline  
Old January 15, 2020, 10:57 AM   #15
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 6,581
Do you know if the 30-06 lower pressure limit is about brass strength or does it consider the Garand,the Win 95,and the fact some folks shoot questionable mil-surps...such as low number Springfields and Eddystones?

I would guess there is no difference in brass strength.

I have noticed that folks compare cartridges based on published velocities at SAAMI pressures.

The 7mm Rem mag is another cartridge that appears handicapped by a lower SAAMI rating
HiBC is offline  
Old January 15, 2020, 12:17 PM   #16
Don Fischer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2017
Posts: 1,640
I think I understand the idea of wildcatt's, shoot I have one! But I don't understand the 300mag class at all. If a 30-06 won't do it, a 300 mag probably will be short stepping also. It has always seemed to me the logical step up from 30-06 would be the 338 mag. Suddenly your into something that has factory weight bullet's the 30 cal doesn't get to. I would not hesitate to use a 30-06 with a 200gr load on anything in N. America. But on dangerous game in N. America I wouldn't think it would match a 338 mag with a 250 gr bullet. Quite possibly even a 338-06 with a 250 gr bullet.
Don Fischer is offline  
Old January 15, 2020, 12:42 PM   #17
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 6,581
Well,Don,why mess around? If a little is good,a lot is better!

I neck the 458 down to create 375 Taylor,or 375-338
HiBC is offline  
Old January 15, 2020, 06:25 PM   #18
old roper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2007
Posts: 1,915
I think it up to Nathan on what he wants. Myself, I get hold of Sherman he could answer all the question.
__________________
Semper Fi
Vietnam 1965
VFW Life member
NRA Life Member
old roper is offline  
Old January 16, 2020, 04:48 AM   #19
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 4,881
Thanks or. I have spoke to Mr Sherman. He has been quite helpful. I’m just reaching out to the community for some other experience...maybe call it a second opinion!
Nathan is offline  
Old January 25, 2020, 09:08 PM   #20
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 4,881
Quote:
Problem with 30-06 it has low spec pressure than 270/308. I just guess but don't think Nosler upped the pressure for 30-06AI. They upped load 1.5 gr more than 30-06 for 200gr bullet using same powder/bullet/barrel(Lilja)/twist/length.

Sherman upped pressure maybe to 65K.
This is the issue... we don’t know the AI or Sherman pressure. What I read/hear is that the Sherman’s straight wall can handle more pressure. Also, it moves the shoulder forward and makes it steeper....this gives quite a bit more capacity.

If his Hornady bushing dies come in at a reasonable price, then we are getting more than the AI with little penalty!

Starline, RWS and Norma all make good brass.
Nathan is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07371 seconds with 8 queries