The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 10, 2020, 05:17 PM   #26
Paul B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,350
When I was faced with that decision I went with the .280 Remington. I even have a decent load running 160 gr. Speer Grand Slams (old two core version) at 2910 FPS and grouping in the .75" area. I got that speed with long obsolete WMR powder and IMR 7828SSC. Accuracy was best with the WMR. Go figure. The plan was to use it on my elk hunt. A vehicle accident took care of that. I'll be lucky if I'm healed up enough to hunt next year.
I guess if I was in the OP's shoes I'd go with the .280. What little I've done with it impresses me.
Paul B.
__________________
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
Paul B. is offline  
Old January 10, 2020, 10:07 PM   #27
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 4,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B. View Post
When I was faced with that decision I went with the .280 Remington. I even have a decent load running 160 gr. Speer Grand Slams (old two core version) at 2910 FPS and grouping in the .75" area. I got that speed with long obsolete WMR powder and IMR 7828SSC. Accuracy was best with the WMR. Go figure. The plan was to use it on my elk hunt. A vehicle accident took care of that. I'll be lucky if I'm healed up enough to hunt next year.
I guess if I was in the OP's shoes I'd go with the .280. What little I've done with it impresses me.
Paul B.
How much 7828? Thats fast for a 160. Seems like an interesting load.
Hopefully you get to hunt next year and try it out.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old January 10, 2020, 10:34 PM   #28
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 7,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by reynolds357
If I could get 6.5-06 AI brass, it would be a no brainer.
Midway has it .
__________________
NRA Life Member
taylorce1 is offline  
Old January 11, 2020, 06:23 AM   #29
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 6,772
Quote:
I have killed more deer than I can count with 270s in the last 1/2 century and I also own a 25-06 with which I have killed about 25 deer and antelope combined in the last 15 years. Hit for hit, comparing bullets of good construction, on deer size game ....I can't actually see any difference at all.
I have to admit of the 06 spawn the 25-06 has impressed me the most; along with the 35 whelen running a close second. What is your preferred hunting bullet that performs best in the 25 in your opinion?
__________________
If you’re ever hiking in the woods and you get lost, just look up and find the brightest star in the sky and you’ll know which way space is.
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old January 11, 2020, 07:42 AM   #30
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 4,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by taylorce1 View Post
The AI, nit the regular A Square.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old January 11, 2020, 09:00 AM   #31
RaySendero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2010
Location: US South
Posts: 777
Redding sells dies in 6.5-06^40° imp
And 6.5-06 A-Square
__________________
Ray
RaySendero is offline  
Old January 11, 2020, 09:44 AM   #32
hooligan1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: Independence Missouri
Posts: 4,444
Well since we're discussing the merits of a. 284 cal. cartridge, why not 28 Nosler.
__________________
Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.
hooligan1 is offline  
Old January 11, 2020, 10:39 AM   #33
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 4,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan1 View Post
Well since we're discussing the merits of a. 284 cal. cartridge, why not 28 Nosler.
1. I would have to open up bolt face.
2. I would have to do magazine work.
3. Its not a "step down" from 7WSM.
4. I have 2 7 RUM already. Which I personally view as vastly superior to 28 Nosler. When run at same pressure, faster than 28 Nosler.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old January 11, 2020, 10:58 AM   #34
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 7,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by reynolds357
The AI, nit the regular A Square.
Most AI cartridges you have to fireform brass anyway, and you have 6.5-06 headstamps. Beats necking up or down brass and then fireforming. Me I'd go .270 Win and call it a day, for under 450 yards hunting and paper punching there is no advantage to any of the other cartridges you listed.
__________________
NRA Life Member
taylorce1 is offline  
Old January 11, 2020, 11:59 AM   #35
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 4,997
Fire forming is the part of AI I try to avoid. I guess I got turned off to it when I was building and shooting Ackley Magnums. It was a 2 or sometimes 3 step fireform that often split the shoulder and ruined the brass. You could not shoot the parent round and make the case. You couldnt even shoot the parent round unless your rifle had a very strong extractor.
Definitely cant argue against a .270 Win. Its only problem is its not in any way "unusual".
reynolds357 is offline  
Old January 11, 2020, 12:31 PM   #36
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 7,240
I learned my lessons FF .280 GNR and after talking to Gary Reeder about my issues with his cartridge. He informed a max book load with the bullet seated to touch the lands will get it in one firing without issues. He was right, and saved me from destroying anymore expensive .405 Win brass.
__________________
NRA Life Member
taylorce1 is offline  
Old January 11, 2020, 12:53 PM   #37
old roper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2007
Posts: 1,915
It's little pricey but you can buy Nosler 280AI brass. Hornady is making 280AI.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021373448
__________________
Semper Fi
Vietnam 1965
VFW Life member
NRA Life Member
old roper is offline  
Old January 12, 2020, 10:07 AM   #38
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 4,882
The 280 AI is already available as brass.

Any of the Ackley improved’s can be formed by firing the parent in the ai chamber. I would add in that they need annealed after this forming step.

Personally 6.5-06 AI would be high on my list. It is about the flattest shooting round, including magnums. You could even throat it long to get a bit more since the win 70 is ready to go to 3.6”. It would be formed by sizing down 280 AI brass or forming from 270 win brass. Some annealing is likely in order for case life. It is not really an AI of the 30-06 case, so it appears by my google foo.
Nathan is offline  
Old January 12, 2020, 10:31 AM   #39
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Taxylvania..
Posts: 2,847
As Melvin Forbes, and many others, have discovered the intermediate length Mauser actions are a perfect fit for the 284 Win.

And if your going to go big, then go big and fast! 7.21 Tomahawk, or 7.21 Firebird.
But there your looking at a 0.680" bolt face. Familiar to our 338LM & 416 Rigby shooters.
Available in large ring Savage actions.
Barrel life is short though.
Lazzeroni actually did his testing with the large Savage action.
__________________
This country was founded on two beliefs.
And I'm pretty sure pork rinds was one of them!
std7mag is offline  
Old January 12, 2020, 12:04 PM   #40
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 4,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by std7mag View Post
As Melvin Forbes, and many others, have discovered the intermediate length Mauser actions are a perfect fit for the 284 Win.

And if your going to go big, then go big and fast! 7.21 Tomahawk, or 7.21 Firebird.
But there your looking at a 0.680" bolt face. Familiar to our 338LM & 416 Rigby shooters.
Available in large ring Savage actions.
Barrel life is short though.
Lazzeroni actually did his testing with the large Savage action.
I have never been overly impressed with the Lazz cartridges. (Imho)Their velocity at near sea level never seemed to match up to their advertised velocities. When they first came out, they were hot, but now the ultra mags have eclipsed them.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old January 12, 2020, 02:13 PM   #41
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Taxylvania..
Posts: 2,847
When the Lazeroni cartridges came out, i could see that.
Lazzeroni did experiment with RL25. They found higher velocities, but noted that accuracy was unacceptable, hence they used and recommended RL22.

With new powders, notably RL23 and RL26, i can see velocities increasing with the Lazzeroni cartridges.
__________________
This country was founded on two beliefs.
And I'm pretty sure pork rinds was one of them!
std7mag is offline  
Old January 12, 2020, 02:30 PM   #42
Pathfinder45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2008
Posts: 2,864
Making cases?

When I first got my 270, I had a lot of 30-'06 brass, but darn little 270 brass. It only takes one pass though a 270 die to turn 30-'06 into 270 brass; no trimming, no neck turning; good to go. I doubt it would be much different resizing to 6.5-06, though you might need to trim to length, especially if you start with 270 brass.
Or, just to be different, you could go with a 6.5-270, or, 6.5-280.....
I think you want the making-brass part of it to be as simple as just resizing a parent case, right?
Pathfinder45 is offline  
Old January 12, 2020, 02:57 PM   #43
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 4,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pathfinder45 View Post
When I first got my 270, I had a lot of 30-'06 brass, but darn little 270 brass. It only takes one pass though a 270 die to turn 30-'06 into 270 brass; no trimming, no neck turning; good to go. I doubt it would be much different resizing to 6.5-06, though you might need to trim to length, especially if you start with 270 brass.
Or, just to be different, you could go with a 6.5-270, or, 6.5-280.....
I think you want the making-brass part of it to be as simple as just resizing a parent case, right?
I really want to avoid brass making. I know how to do it and have done a lot of it, but I prefer to avoid it. A main reason being head stamps and safety. Honestly, if I were going to make brass, this build would be a 6mm-06AI. I would build 2 barrels while set up, so when the first shot out I could just screw the next one on.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old January 12, 2020, 02:59 PM   #44
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 6,582
Quote:
Fire forming is the part of AI I try to avoid. I guess I got turned off to it when I was building and shooting Ackley Magnums. It was a 2 or sometimes 3 step fireform that often split the shoulder and ruined the brass. You could not shoot the parent round and make the case. You couldnt even shoot the parent round unless your rifle had a very strong extractor.
Definitely cant argue against a .270 Win. Its only problem is its not in any way "unusual".
I have no experience with Ackley Magnums.
I do have considerable experience with .257 R AI and some with 30-06 AI.

So long as you begin with virgin brass and hae some method of keeping the brass against the breech face,the fire form process is trouble free.I've never had a case fail.I actually use an AI headspace "Go" gauge,and quit cutting while I can still just feel the gauge. Ackley designed the AI to fireform headspacing at the juncture of the neck and the shoulder. That works fine for me,too. Only don't try forcing a CRF claw extractor to snap over the rim,single loading! I helped a friend build another 257 AI .He made that mistake,then asked me about head separations when fire forming!

I have not formed 280 AI. I would assume that if you ran 30-06 brass through a 280 AI sizing die you would create a .024 on the diameter slight step,or a trace of shoulder to hold the case head aganst the breech.

With just a little careful setting of the die,fireforming should be a snap,IMO.But,like I said,I have not actually done exactly that.

If you were using 280 brass,the old classic 175 gr round nose bullets could be seated long to engage the lands.You could even use a light crimp.

I was quite successful long seating the old 117 gr round nose .257 bullets for my .257 AI.

I also noticed the bullet boxes were dusty from sitting on the shelf a long time,which opened the door for a little price negotiation.

Reading this thread,I notice you seem to have a lot of experience with a variety of cartridges ….I read a lot ff "Been there,done that" with 30-416 R,and 3 or4 65.5 284;s etc. I'm not going to go back throughthe posts to make an inventory..

But you certainly do not seem to be a newbie who needs some help.

I'm not sure what the motivation for the thread or the rifle build is.

For myself,if a factory round will perfectly fill the bill,its rather a plus to not fiddle around.
OK,I DO have a 375 Taylor and a 30-338 along with my 257 AI.. I understand the fun. If we were still building sporters on Milsurps,IMO,the 8x57 case is under utilized in the Mauser mag length.I've thought about making a rifle with a 30 or 338 bore using a 8x57 AI case. I'm sure it would be a fine hunting rifle. But I can think of no really good reason to do it.

But I also reached the point where I noticed I did not have a single,straight up 30-06 or .308 bolt hunting rifle.

But I did have a pristine 98-09 Argentine bare action (not a complete rifle),one last Garret-Accralyte stock blank (quality,foam core glass and Kevlar, M-70 fwt pattern. I went to school with the man who made them.),and a commercial full 30-06 length steelhinged floorplate bottom metal on hand. I even had one commercial 98 scope bolt left. I scrounged up a Gentry M-70 type side swing safety, a Lothar Walther barrel and some Warne steel weaver pattern bases. Oh,and a Timney trigger.

Yup. A plain biscuits and gravy 30-06 hunting rifle.And its going to gt a 6x42 fixed power Leupold,with a standard duplex.. I may add CDS knobs

Just a plain old hunting rifle. Thing is,I'm 67. I just don't do 8000 ft snow covered side hill meat packing through blowdons and doghair anymore.

Mostly out of consideration for the folks who would feel compelled to pack my body out of the woods.(Myself,I'd be OK with feeding the coyotes).

I think you have a lot of good options,and you and I look at things a little different.

Which is OK.

I think my 10 yr old Grandson can look forward to inheriting a darn nice 30-06. Likely no one else he knows will have such a nice rifle.

The barrel on my 257 AI has over 20 yrs on it. I might fix him up with a 6.5 AAR. A Warren Page creation. Its in Ackley's book. its a 6.5 -257 AI .

That ought to corrupt my Grandson.....Or,maybe just a straight up 257 Roberts would be just fine.

Last edited by HiBC; January 12, 2020 at 03:27 PM.
HiBC is offline  
Old January 13, 2020, 02:06 PM   #45
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 4,997
I never realized until I looked at my reamer book last night that the 280 Remington does not use the .30-06 go gauge. .25-06, 270, 338-06, and 35 Whelen all use the 06 Gauge. The .280 Rem/7mm Express has different part number.
reynolds357 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09372 seconds with 8 queries