AR Pistol Question

USMCFO · January 4, 2020, 04:50 PM

So after being totally without anything that resembles an AR since departing the USMC in 1974, I find myself becoming interested in the AR pistols currently being offered by various manufacturers, specifically the Springfield Armory Saint Edge pistol, and have a question for the forum members that are fans of the AR.

Since the brace looks something like a stock, and the barrel length is only 10 inches, can this be purchased as any other pistol, or does it fall into the category of a Short Barrel Rifle and need the ATF Form 4 ?

American Man · January 4, 2020, 05:01 PM

It is considered a handgun. No ATF hassle to go through.

Just don't put a 90 degree vertical foregrip on it unless it has an overall length of at least 26 inches. If less than 26 inches you can put the Magpul AFG 45 degree grip on it. I'll try to attach a pic.

Here is the legal foregrip, if you even need it. But putting on the 90 degree vertical foregrip is a no go ... I believe it is considered an AOW.

USMCFO · January 4, 2020, 05:51 PM

Thanks for the info. How do you like your AR pistol? Looks like you have the flip up sights, how do you like those?

**JohnKSa** · January 4, 2020, 05:59 PM

Quote:

It is considered a handgun.

It is currently considered a handgun. At first it wasn't, then SIG got the BATF to say it was, then the BATF changed their mind and said it wasn't (well it sort of wasn't), now it is again. Maybe it will always be considered a pistol from now on, maybe the BATF will change its mind again.

I've seen enough BATF opinion changes that I have no appetite for playing that particular game since the BATF holds all the cards. If I want an SBR, I'm going to go the NFA route. Plus then I can put a vertical foregrip on it if I want.

American Man · January 4, 2020, 06:13 PM

Here is a link to some more info. I added some info above in my post, but this link is probably better:

https://americanmilitarynews.com/201...-short-rifles/

I love my AR pistol. I have a Spikes Tactical 8.1 inch barrel. Even before I had the brace I put it up to my shoulder with just the tube and it fires just fine. The brace is a little more comfortable. Out to 250 yards, it is the same as shooting a 16 inch AR... I didn't set up targets past that but I'm sure it would do fine at 300.

The flip up sights are ok... I prefer the more sturdy standard front sight post for reflexive fire only cause that is what I am used to, but the difference is minimal.

I use the Lower 1/3 Cowitness with my red dot. I find it more comfortable than the Absolute Cowitness.

The model you are looking at getting is a great model. You'll be mad at yourself for taking so long to get one. lol

scorpion_tyr · January 4, 2020, 07:11 PM

Warning: they are addictive. I never liked the M-16 when I was in the military, and never intended on having an AR. I happened to come across a good deal on an AR pistol that actually looked good to me and felt great. It’s a 10.5” barrel .300 Blackout and absolutely beautiful to shoot.

Since then I’ve built five more, all pistols with braces on them and I’m in the process of planning my next one.

9x19 · January 4, 2020, 08:20 PM

Addictive?!

.22LR - 7.5"

9mm - 8"

.22LR - 9"

10mm - 10.5"

FYI: braces aren't just for AR pistols...

.22LR - 10"

9mm - 10"

USMCFO · January 4, 2020, 08:31 PM

Thanls American Man for the helpful info. I seem to be reverting to my younger days with regards to taste in firearms. Through most of my career was involved primarily with revolvers and then SA/DA semi-auto pistols.

Last year I went back to a 1911 style with the purchase of a Springfield Armory EMP4 9mm which I like and now started looking at the Saint Edge pistol. Like scorpion_tyr I was never a big fan of the M-16 when I was in the military as I was issued an early one before the forward assist and chrome lining mods; all through my tour in Vietnam found myself repeatedly wishing I had the M-14 that I trained with.

USMCFO · January 4, 2020, 08:35 PM

9X19, that is quite a collection you have, which one was your first that got you more interested in them ?

American Man · January 4, 2020, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMCFO

Thanls American Man for the helpful info. I seem to be reverting to my younger days with regards to taste in firearms. Through most of my career was involved primarily with revolvers and then SA/DA semi-auto pistols.

Last year I went back to a 1911 style with the purchase of a Springfield Armory EMP4 9mm which I like and now started looking at the Saint Edge pistol. Like scorpion_tyr I was never a big fan of the M-16 when I was in the military as I was issued an early one before the forward assist and chrome lining mods; all through my tour in Vietnam found myself repeatedly wishing I had the M-14 that I trained with.

One of my platoon sergeants early on was a Vietnam Veteran and he told us about how many friendlies had jammed M16s next to them when their bodies were recovered. That always stuck with me... and I have even seen it mentioned in documentaries. For most of my time in 88-08, army, if you kept the top of your magazines from getting banged up, smashed and bent, they were very reliable.

I hope you enjoy it. It is a great SD option as well... if you live in the deep woods that is. lol I keep a set of electronic ear muffs next to mine.

9x19 · January 5, 2020, 01:06 AM

USMC,

Thanks. My short AR journey actually started with registered SBRs (I have four). The pistols were next. I enjoy them all but for hunting I use an SBR as I still shoot a scoped gun better with a regular stock vs the brace.

JERRYS. · January 5, 2020, 01:23 AM

I've since added a blade brace and changed out the trigger guard to one more open/rounded.

Ibmikey · January 14, 2020, 10:14 PM

I have built pistols in 5.56, 300 BO and 9 mm all are fun shooters, I stamped each lower receiver inside “PISTOL” not that it is required but makes me feel a little better.

Cheapshooter · January 14, 2020, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Warning: they are addictive.

Then there's the real addiction ~ Building them!
So many calibers, so many options!!!

JERRYS. · January 14, 2020, 11:36 PM

speaking of which.... what's anyone's suggestion for a low cost laser?

zeke · January 16, 2020, 09:03 AM

Quote:

It is currently considered a handgun. At first it wasn't, then SIG got the BATF to say it was, then the BATF changed their mind and said it wasn't (well it sort of wasn't), now it is again. Maybe it will always be considered a pistol from now on, maybe the BATF will change its mind again.

Agree this can change instantly, and something that needs consideration. With advancing age, am trying to accommodate decreasing skill with a pistol. The short ar style in pistol calibers with braces have appeal, reliability, economy and are easy to shoot accurately. Since they are pistols, they meet they can be legally concealed where the law allows. And they come in 45 acp.

Also have registered sbr in 223 with more power and range, but loud, longer and more expensive to practice with than pistol caliber.

If the interpretation changes, will go to effort to put a "stock" on the pistol and stamp it.

gnystrom · January 16, 2020, 10:24 AM

Nice info guys. I learned a lot by reading all your posts. That may be the ultimate home defense gun.

January 4, 2020, 04:50 PM	#1
USMCFO Junior Member Join Date: August 27, 2016 Posts: 14	AR Pistol Question So after being totally without anything that resembles an AR since departing the USMC in 1974, I find myself becoming interested in the AR pistols currently being offered by various manufacturers, specifically the Springfield Armory Saint Edge pistol, and have a question for the forum members that are fans of the AR. Since the brace looks something like a stock, and the barrel length is only 10 inches, can this be purchased as any other pistol, or does it fall into the category of a Short Barrel Rifle and need the ATF Form 4 ?

January 4, 2020, 07:11 PM	#6
scorpion_tyr Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,326	Warning: they are addictive. I never liked the M-16 when I was in the military, and never intended on having an AR. I happened to come across a good deal on an AR pistol that actually looked good to me and felt great. It’s a 10.5” barrel .300 Blackout and absolutely beautiful to shoot. Since then I’ve built five more, all pistols with braces on them and I’m in the process of planning my next one. __________________ “Nature intended me for the tranquil pursuits of science, by rendering them my supreme delight.” - Thomas Jefferson

January 4, 2020, 08:20 PM	#7
9x19 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: Sherman, TX USA Posts: 3,750	Addictive?! .22LR - 7.5" 9mm - 8" .22LR - 9" 10mm - 10.5" FYI: braces aren't just for AR pistols... .22LR - 10" 9mm - 10" __________________ Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!

January 5, 2020, 01:06 AM	#11
9x19 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: Sherman, TX USA Posts: 3,750	USMC, Thanks. My short AR journey actually started with registered SBRs (I have four). The pistols were next. I enjoy them all but for hunting I use an SBR as I still shoot a scoped gun better with a regular stock vs the brace. __________________ Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!

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January 4, 2020, 05:51 PM	#3
USMCFO Junior Member Join Date: August 27, 2016 Posts: 14	Thanks for the info. How do you like your AR pistol? Looks like you have the flip up sights, how do you like those?

January 4, 2020, 06:13 PM	#5
American Man Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2018 Posts: 218	Here is a link to some more info. I added some info above in my post, but this link is probably better: https://americanmilitarynews.com/201...-short-rifles/ I love my AR pistol. I have a Spikes Tactical 8.1 inch barrel. Even before I had the brace I put it up to my shoulder with just the tube and it fires just fine. The brace is a little more comfortable. Out to 250 yards, it is the same as shooting a 16 inch AR... I didn't set up targets past that but I'm sure it would do fine at 300. The flip up sights are ok... I prefer the more sturdy standard front sight post for reflexive fire only cause that is what I am used to, but the difference is minimal. I use the Lower 1/3 Cowitness with my red dot. I find it more comfortable than the Absolute Cowitness. The model you are looking at getting is a great model. You'll be mad at yourself for taking so long to get one. lol

January 4, 2020, 08:31 PM	#8
USMCFO Junior Member Join Date: August 27, 2016 Posts: 14	Thanls American Man for the helpful info. I seem to be reverting to my younger days with regards to taste in firearms. Through most of my career was involved primarily with revolvers and then SA/DA semi-auto pistols. Last year I went back to a 1911 style with the purchase of a Springfield Armory EMP4 9mm which I like and now started looking at the Saint Edge pistol. Like scorpion_tyr I was never a big fan of the M-16 when I was in the military as I was issued an early one before the forward assist and chrome lining mods; all through my tour in Vietnam found myself repeatedly wishing I had the M-14 that I trained with.

January 4, 2020, 08:35 PM	#9
USMCFO Junior Member Join Date: August 27, 2016 Posts: 14	9X19, that is quite a collection you have, which one was your first that got you more interested in them ?

January 14, 2020, 10:14 PM	#13
Ibmikey Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2013 Location: Now relocated to Texas Posts: 2,943	I have built pistols in 5.56, 300 BO and 9 mm all are fun shooters, I stamped each lower receiver inside “PISTOL” not that it is required but makes me feel a little better.

January 14, 2020, 11:36 PM	#15
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,968	speaking of which.... what's anyone's suggestion for a low cost laser?

January 16, 2020, 10:24 AM	#17
gnystrom Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 308	Nice info guys. I learned a lot by reading all your posts. That may be the ultimate home defense gun.