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Old December 30, 2019, 07:33 PM   #1
AZHeat
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CZ Shadow 2 SAO vs DA/SA considerations

Hi all,

Just sold a couple of pistols I wasn’t using to get a CZ 75 Shadow 2. Would love the yellow, but the blue is more in my price range. I’m trying to decide between the SAO or DA/SA. I’ve done some steel shooting for fun, which I hope to get into again. Won’t ever be good enough to really compete, but I may get into some just for the fun of shooting under pressure.

I’m also looking for the gun to be my primary home defense and range gun. I’ve shot the SAO orange in the past and I’ve been hooked. Problem is, no one has them around me at the moment, so may go online. With this in mind, I can’t compare the triggers. Also thinking maybe DA/SA will be a bit safer for home defense? May give me or the wife a bit of wiggle room in a tense situation, half asleep... I currently have 3 other SAO pistols, so not new to SAO. Have had plenty of time behind Glocks too. Just don’t know which way to go with the CZ.

Those who have the Shadow 2 pistols, do you have any regrets going one way vs the other?

Thanks in advance.
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Old December 30, 2019, 07:36 PM   #2
TunnelRat
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The regular Shadow 2 can be used cocked and locked as it has a safety, it just isn't single action only IIRC. The Shadow 2 doesn't have a decocker so you have to lower the hammer by hand. This isn't the end of the world, I just point it out because it does bother some people. I think depending on which division in competition you want to compete might change which is or isn't legal.

Wait, do you mean the Tactical Sports Orange or the Shadow 2 Orange? Looks like the Shadow 2 Orange has a barrel bushing, more handfitting, and a trigger job over the regular Shadow 2. The Tactical Sports is SAO while the other two can be used DA/SA.

https://cz-usa.com/product-category/...tion-handguns/

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Last edited by TunnelRat; December 30, 2019 at 07:45 PM.
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Old December 30, 2019, 08:25 PM   #3
AZHeat
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^^I’m looking at the Shadow 2 in blue. Comes in SAO and DA/SA.
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Old December 30, 2019, 08:27 PM   #4
TunnelRat
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I only see one SKU for the Blue and it says DA/SA.

Edit: Ah there it is further down. Gotcha. They seem to just call it Shadow 2 SA without referencing the color. I don't think I've ever seen one in person. Good to know, thanks!

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-shadow-2-sa/


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Last edited by TunnelRat; December 30, 2019 at 08:34 PM.
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Old January 2, 2020, 10:26 AM   #5
Areoflyer09
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FWIW, I converted my Shadow Orange from DA/SA to SAO. The factory DA/SA was smooth and well done, but it’s much better with the crisp 2lb SAO trigger. It is borderline a hair trigger though, great on the range but I wouldn’t hand it to a novice. I don’t think a factory SAO would be quite as touchy.

Personally, I wouldn’t use my Shadow Orange as a HD tool. Between the trigger (very little room for error) and knowing the condition it would be when/if they gave it back, I have other options that are better suited to that use.
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Old January 5, 2020, 09:05 AM   #6
Walt Sherrill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZheat
I’m also looking for the gun to be my primary home defense and range gun. I’ve shot the SAO orange in the past and I’ve been hooked. Problem is, no one has them around me at the moment, so may go online. With this in mind, I can’t compare the triggers. Also thinking maybe DA/SA will be a bit safer for home defense? May give me or the wife a bit of wiggle room in a tense situation, half asleep... I currently have 3 other SAO pistols, so not new to SAO. Have had plenty of time behind Glocks too. Just don’t know which way to go with the CZ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Areoflyer09
FWIW, I converted my Shadow Orange from DA/SA to SAO. The factory DA/SA was smooth and well done, but it’s much better with the crisp 2lb SAO trigger. It is borderline a hair trigger though, great on the range but I wouldn’t hand it to a novice. I don’t think a factory SAO would be quite as touchy.

Personally, I wouldn’t use my Shadow Orange as a HD tool. Between the trigger (very little room for error) and knowing the condition it would be when/if they gave it back, I have other options that are better suited to that use.
A DA/SA model with a safety rather than a decocker gives you the most options, and the concern you both express about a "hair-trigger" can be easily resolved by installing a slightly heavier hammer spring. Hammer spring weight, when the hammer/sear interface has been tuned, is what really controls the weight of the trigger.

A safety-equipped DA/SA model and a trigger weight you're most comfortable with gives you several options:
  • You can then run the gun DA/SA, starting from hammer down without the safety engaged, for the heaviest trigger pull on the first shot, and a lighter trigger pull on following shots,

  • You can start from the half-cock notch (aka the "safety notch") without the safety engaged or a slightly lighter, shorter trigger pull on the first shot, and a standard SA trigger on following shots., or

  • You can start from cocked & locked, carried or stored with the safety engaged
Going to a slightly heavier hammer spring will stiffen the trigger just a little (making it less "hair-trigger-like") but it'll stay just as crisp. You can get several different springs and try different weights. Changing a hammer spring is relatively simple, and I'm sure Cajun Gun Works or CZ Custom can suggest the best weight for what you want to do, and send it to your quickly.

If you haven't already done so, check for solutions on the CZ Forum -- there are a lot shooters there running that same gun. Here's a link: https://www.czfirearms.us/

Two good sources for parts are Cajun Gun Works and CZ Custom -- they, like the CZ Forum, can also be a good source for guidance and advice.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; January 5, 2020 at 05:20 PM.
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Old January 5, 2020, 06:14 PM   #7
Areoflyer09
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Walt - I think my view on my CZ was misinterpreted. I had the action tuned to be exactly how it is for use as a range gun. That decision just make it less than appealing as a HD or carry choice. Different tools for different purposes.
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Old January 6, 2020, 04:21 PM   #8
AZHeat
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Thanks Walt. Great info. I went with the Blue DA/SA. I'll leave it that way, till I get another HD gun. Meanwhile, the Shadow 2 will fill that role as well. Once I get another, most likely another CZ75, I'll then convert it to SAO. Although, while I haven't shot it yet, the DA/SA trigger seems way nicer than others I've fired.

Went with the blue, because I didn't want to spend the extra, then potentially either limit myself or have to undo something I already paid a mint for. Blue seemed just the right ticket.

Thanks all for your help.
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Old January 6, 2020, 04:41 PM   #9
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Well...I just said the above and realized if the Shadow was used in an HD situation, it would be confiscated till who knows when. I guess I'll have to emphasis a higher priority on a qualified HD gun. Oh well...I guess I must purchase another. Bummer!
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Old January 6, 2020, 04:53 PM   #10
TunnelRat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZHeat View Post
Well...I just said the above and realized if the Shadow was used in an HD situation, it would be confiscated till who knows when. I guess I'll have to emphasis a higher priority on a qualified HD gun. Oh well...I guess I must purchase another. Bummer!
Let me present this one way. If the cost of the Shadow 2 was all you had to pay to avoid potentially being killed, that's pretty reasonable. I see a lot of people buy expensive pistols and then worry about the cost associated with replacing that pistol. In the event you discharge a firearm at or detain a person with a firearm in your home, the cost of that firearm likely isn't going to be your biggest concern. If you discharge that firearm you may face criminal prosecution, civil prosecution, and the costs associated with repairing or cleaning the scene. This doesn't get into the potential psychological costs and perhaps any associated therapy, for you or loved ones. Some of that can even still apply to not even discharging the firearm. Next to all of that, $1300 or so is pretty small.

Now if there's another firearm out there that you think affords you the same level of performance and you want to have that to still offset the overall cost, by all means go for it. My point is simply of the things to worry about, personally I put it pretty far down the list when taken on context.

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Old January 6, 2020, 05:23 PM   #11
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I may get yelled at for being off-topic or nearly irrelevant but my best shooting bro bought a CZ-75SA years back and we both somewhat half expected this single action only variant of a long established great pistol to have a much improved and inspiring single action trigger and that was for certain NOT the case whatsoever. It seemed obvious that the net result of this CZ-75SA was that a CZ-75 had basically had the option of DA removed. The gun was perfectly fine for what it was but it seemed to be zero more than a CZ-75 that couldn’t be used in double action.

This is likely irrelevant information. I will add that I have a (first version) Tac Sport and I really love it and my same buddy recently grabbed the DA/SA Shadow 2 and I’m definitely impressed with that pistol also, far better DA and noticeably better SA trigger than the CZ-75 and CZ-75SA.

As a guy who continues to have almost no use for anything currently in production by nearly every gun maker, it sure seems like CZ-USA is currently making better guns then everyone else that I know of.

I have no interest in new and currently produced handguns but if I were, I’d be going CZ-USA before every other manufacturer today.
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Old January 6, 2020, 10:43 PM   #12
Walt Sherrill
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The only real INTERNAL difference between a SA/DA 75B and a SAO 75B is that the disconnector is removed and a different trigger is available. The two-way adjustable trigger allows you to adjust of overtravel AND takeup. But unless some internal work is done, it's just another 75B that doesn't do DA. (The slides are slightly different, as is ambi-safeties. (I don't have one at the moment, but I think the beavertail is extended a bit, too.)

The one I had was worked over by a gifted gunsmith before I got it, and it was quite nice.
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Old January 6, 2020, 11:01 PM   #13
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On shadows you can have a da/sa single action trigger that is as good as a sao trigger pull. If you use a fitted disconnector you can have basically zero take up single action on a da/sa gun. The trigger also has an overtravel screw. There is no need to have the gun single action only. I have a couple of shadows like this and they have excellent single action triggers.
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Old January 7, 2020, 04:23 PM   #14
AZHeat
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TunnelRat: "Let me present this one way. If the cost of the Shadow 2 was all you had to pay to avoid potentially being killed, that's pretty reasonable. I see a lot of people buy expensive pistols and then worry about the cost associated with replacing that pistol. In the event you discharge a firearm at or detain a person with a firearm in your home, the cost of that firearm likely isn't going to be your biggest concern. If you discharge that firearm you may face criminal prosecution, civil prosecution, and the costs associated with repairing or cleaning the scene. This doesn't get into the potential psychological costs and perhaps any associated therapy, for you or loved ones. Some of that can even still apply to not even discharging the firearm. Next to all of that, $1300 or so is pretty small.

Now if there's another firearm out there that you think affords you the same level of performance and you want to have that to still offset the overall cost, by all means go for it. My point is simply of the things to worry about, personally I put it pretty far down the list when taken on context."
____

Not sure why my quote button doesn't work...

Very true. It was a stupid thought through and through. If something goes down, I'll use them all if I have to. The attorneys fees will likely kill me anyway, if the bad guy doesn't get me. The sad state of truth.
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Old January 7, 2020, 04:26 PM   #15
TunnelRat
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I wouldn't call it a stupid thought. It's a normal thought. You just have to keep it in context of what a self defense encounter means.

Either way, enjoy your pistol and update us with how it works out for you .

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Old January 7, 2020, 04:40 PM   #16
AZHeat
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If the DA/SA trigger is as good as the SAO, I may just stick with it. I love my DW 1911 trigger, but if it isn't going to be much different than what's there now, I guess there's no point. I think the trigger on the gun is perfectly fine as is. I'm after all, pretty comfortable shooting Glocks with their goofy triggers. Even shot steel fine with it. The CZ is going to feel lightyears ahead of that!
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