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Old December 27, 2019, 10:52 PM   #1
kilotanker22
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Help me choose

I want to build a wsm rifle. Probably of the 270 flavor. Also most likely on a savage action, (if i can find one) Or a Winchester XPR action. So far I have had exactly zero luck finding either in the wsm calibers locally. I have considered buying a 300 win mag donor rifle and building a 6.5 wsm on a long action to help with COAL with those really long 6.5 bullets. At any rate I am just having trouble deciding what I want to do. I don't need this rifle to serve any particular purpose. Probably a lot of range time, but needs to be a reasonable weight to take into the field. I guess just for fun really... WHAT barrel maker for a fast turn around and reasonable value? What stock? Brake or no brake?

I guess I could always Buy a Remington 700 long range in 300 RUM and shoot that barrel out then build a 300 PRC. Or just buy a RPR in 300 PRC.

So someone talk some sense into me and give me some ideas... By the way I have the blessing from my wife since I recently got a promotion and worked my ass off this year so no dog house i guess.

Maybe I would even get lucky and someone here from Central PA, or NY would meet up with me and have a donor rifle or action for sale...

Appreciate the feedback all.

P.S. Don't tell me about recoil and how much easier a smaller caliber is to shoot. LOL, I already know and do just fine...
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Old December 27, 2019, 11:29 PM   #2
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Savage Action
Barrel
Brake
Stock
Bases
Rings
Scope
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Old December 28, 2019, 09:15 AM   #3
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Just be aware that the WSM's in a Savage action are 2+1, not the normal 3+1 for most magnum cartridges. The WSM cartridges are a little fatter than others. With most other actions there is still enough room to fit 3 in the magazine and close the bolt on an empty chamber or with a 4th round in the chamber.

With the Savage and WSM cartridges you can FIT 3 in the magazine. But you can't close the bolt on an empty chamber or with a 4th cartridge in the chamber.

At least that was true a few years ago. Savage may have changed something but they are still showing mag capacity for WSM's as 2. The other magnum rounds are listed as 3 and standard cartridges are listed as 4.

For what you want to do that may not be a factor, but it is better to know up front rather than be surprised after the build.

FWIW I like the WSM concept and had a 300 WSM for a few years. I liked the round, just decided I didn't NEED anything that potent. It is splitting hairs really, but if going to the trouble to build a custom I'd look at the 7mm WSM. It is probably the best of the bunch, but the least common. Would be unique and there are more options for better bullets in 7mm than 270.

Winchester discovered that it was possible to chamber and fire 270 WSM ammo in the 7mm WSM rifles shortly before they were introduced. As a result of that Winchester held off introducing the 7mm version for about a year until they tweaked the design slightly to prevent firing the wrong ammo in the wrong rifle. By the time the 7mm WSM made it to shelves everyone who wanted a WSM already had a 300 or 270 so the 7mm never caught on. Really a shame.
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Old December 28, 2019, 10:47 AM   #4
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This .270 WSM rifle will cost you a little more than the Savage and parts I listed.

Here is a fairly affordable way to get int a .300 PRC rifle.
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Old December 28, 2019, 02:16 PM   #5
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You asked for it.....

Quote:
So someone talk some sense into me and give me some ideas...
OK, so, go buy a brand-new Winchester model 70, Super-grade if you prefer, in 270 Winchester and forget this nonsense about WSM or other magnums. A good 24" barreled 270 Winchester with optimal handloads will match the 270 WSM or 270 Weatherby, without sacrificing magazine capacity to do so. Then take the money you saved and spend it on your wife. Take her to Kauai.
Just sayin'.....
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Old December 28, 2019, 04:58 PM   #6
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Wholesale Hunter has a 700 Magnum Action that you can start with. If I were going to build a Win Marketing Magnum, it would be a 7mm.

https://www.wholesalehunter.com/Sear...agnum%20action
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Old December 28, 2019, 10:38 PM   #7
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Don't discount the WSM's. The problem is that most people never understood the niche they were intended for. Even most manufacturers.

The 300, 270, and 7mm WSM's all beat 30-06, 270, and 280 by 150-200 fps and come within 50 fps of matching 300WM and 7mm Rem mag. There is no direct comparison for the 270 WSM.

The difference is that the WSM's are much more efficient. They come within 50 fps of the traditional belted magnums with much less powder. When you reduce velocity by 50 fps and burn 10-15 gr less powder doing it you see noticeably less recoil. No game animal will notice the 50 fps. But you'll see recoil closer to 30-06, 270, or 280 while getting 98% of the speed of the belted magnums.

It is also possible to build a lighter,more compact rifle in the short action rifles. AND the WSM's lose very little speed from barrels as short as 22" while the belted magnums need 26" to match published speeds. They have also proven more accurate. Hornady claims the 300 WSM is the most accurate rifle they have ever tested in 30 caliber. They now test all of their 30 caliber bullets with 300 WSM cartridges.

Rick Jamison designed the cartridge to provide magnum performance in lighter weight mountain rifles without unreasonable recoil. And in the right rifles they do just that. The biggest problem is that Kimber is the only manufacturer that ever built a rifle designed to take advantage of the rounds capability.

The lawsuit also hurt the cartridge. Jamison designed and patented the cartridge. He then offered to sell the idea to Winchester who declined. When they introduced the cartridge under a different name Jamison sued and won. As a result all WSM rifles and ammo sold paid a royalty to Jamison. Winchester had to keep producing the rifles, but the royalty payments scared away most other manufacturers from making rifles in them. That is why Ruger and Remington developed their own short magnums, to avoid paying the royalties.
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Old December 29, 2019, 12:36 AM   #8
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I agree with jmr40, I load for a few 270 rifles, and one 270 wsm. The 22 inch barreled 270 wsm I have gets 3300 FPS with a starting charge of H1000, I have no doubt that with a longer barrel to burn up that H-1000 it would be much faster. Shoots flatter than my 300 win mag, and carries more energy to 400 yards than a 30-06 with comparable bullet weight for caliber. With less felt recoil than my 30-06, and a lot less recoil than my 300 Win mag. Using the same bullet from several 270 Win rifles I have never even come close to that velocity with longer barrels. I know there are a few really fast barreled 270 Win rifles out there, but they are the exception and not the norm IMO.

I am fairly well set on another 270 WSM when i build this rifle. Maybe the 300 PRC as I mentioned earlier. The 270 WSM Cartridge and I are just perfect for each other.

Accuracy has been in my experience easier to fine tune and find the right load with thee wsm cartridge than any of the other magnum rifles I have worked with.

I guess I want to take a cartridge I already know well, Am already stocked with components and tools and have several very good loads to start with. Built custom with a stock, action, trigger, optic and longer barrel, and see what I can make it do... I'd bet with a 26 inch match grade and a heavier magnum weight barrel. I would be able to increase the velocity of some of my pet loads with outstanding accuracy.

My Ideal setup would be something along the following lines.
26 inch Heavy magnum weight barrel 5r rifled preferably, but not a deal breaker
( probably threaded for a brake.)

Stock with adjustable length of pull and comb height. (Maybe a monolithic Chassis)

Honestly, for the trigger. If I had a Savage action to build this on. I would use the Savage Varmint accutrigger. I have found this to be my absolute favorite trigger to date. Honestly I like it better than almost any of the aftermarket triggers I have used. Aside from a Jewel trigger that I put on a Remington rifle I used to shoot a lot.

I mean really, If I was gonna use a savage trigger and a monolithic chassis. Maybe, A Savage 110 BA Stealth would be a good donor rifle. It already has the Chassis and the trigger I would be using.

I very much appreciate the feedback I have gotten thus far from everyone here
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Old December 30, 2019, 05:39 PM   #9
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I have never done the math to see, but I have been told by a Smith I shoot with that you MUST have the large shank Savage action to build a WSM. He says the build is possible but unsafe on standard shank. I have noticed the note on some of the WSM prefts that WSM is large shank only.
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Old December 30, 2019, 05:45 PM   #10
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Why not just buy a new Savage 270 WSM from $450 to $900. They make some very nice ones. As big a barrel burner as it is, you can rebarrel it with a custom tube in 800 shots.
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Old December 30, 2019, 06:44 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by reynolds357 View Post
Why not just buy a new Savage 270 WSM from $450 to $900. They make some very nice ones. As big a barrel burner as it is, you can rebarrel it with a custom tube in 800 shots.
I don't know man. I have well over 1000 shots on my TC Arms Venture rifle in 270 wsm and it is still slinging them into sub half MOA consistently. Although I have seen about a .008 increase in Cartridge base to ogive measurement. The throat erosion isn't that big of a deal really IMO. I can load for the longer CBTO. As long as it keeps shooting, I will keep shooting it. Although that is my Big game rifle. It's what I hunt with and shoots really well so i dont want to need to replace the barrel on that one.

It is funny you mention buying a new savage. I had my local shop order me a Savage 110 hunter in 270 wsm. I plan to just pull the barrel off and use the action and stock for the rifle build.
I went that route because the 110 accufit accustock really is an excellent stock IMO. Also by going that way I will save $300-$500 on a good stock that I could otherwise add to my optics fund.

So when I get that rifle, I will already have the action, trigger and stock that I plan to start with. I guess now I just need to decide on a barrel maker and order a 28 inch .277 caliber barrel blank ( for a 26" finished length).

I am torn between paying someone to finish the chamber for me, or to find a maker who I can send off a couple dummy rounds to have a reamer made for it.
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Last edited by kilotanker22; December 30, 2019 at 06:47 PM. Reason: To clarify what I was trying to say
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Old December 30, 2019, 07:00 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by kilotanker22 View Post
I don't know man. I have well over 1000 shots on my TC Arms Venture rifle in 270 wsm and it is still slinging them into sub half MOA consistently. Although I have seen about a .008 increase in Cartridge base to ogive measurement. The throat erosion isn't that big of a deal really IMO. I can load for the longer CBTO. As long as it keeps shooting, I will keep shooting it. Although that is my Big game rifle. It's what I hunt with and shoots really well so i dont want to need to replace the barrel on that one.

It is funny you mention buying a new savage. I had my local shop order me a Savage 110 hunter in 270 wsm. I plan to just pull the barrel off and use the action and stock for the rifle build.
I went that route because the 110 accufit accustock really is an excellent stock IMO. Also by going that way I will save $300-$500 on a good stock that I could otherwise add to my optics fund.

So when I get that rifle, I will already have the action, trigger and stock that I plan to start with. I guess now I just need to decide on a barrel maker and order a 28 inch .277 caliber barrel blank ( for a 26" finished length).

I am torn between paying someone to finish the chamber for me, or to find a maker who I can send off a couple dummy rounds to have a reamer made for it.
I am not following you. You have a new 270 WSM you simply want to re-barrel? No way I would personally order a reamer for a one off build unless I had to. Order a prefit throated to dummy round would be simplest. I am personally not going to cut a chamber for anything with a barrel nut. Too cheap to order it chambered. I dont want to set the lathe up for $60 bucks.
I have a .270wsm venture. Biggest piece of trash I ever owned. I love my 308 and 204 Ruger Venture, but the .270 WSM is pure crap. I guess one day I might deal with customer no service for the I believe this trip will be the fourth.

Last edited by reynolds357; December 30, 2019 at 07:05 PM.
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Old December 30, 2019, 10:09 PM   #13
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A bolt head swap is not complicated on a Savage. Could a WSM bolt head be fitted to a 06 or magnum size donor rifle . Wonder what other modifications needed to be done to the Savage action for the WSM.
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Old December 30, 2019, 10:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.G. Terry View Post
A bolt head swap is not complicated on a Savage. Could a WSM bolt head be fitted to a 06 or magnum size donor rifle . Wonder what other modifications needed to be done to the Savage action for the WSM.
Has to be a large shank savage for WSM.
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Old December 31, 2019, 05:51 AM   #15
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So, it looks like a large shank donor action is the only way out using a Savage action. Also swapping out bolt heads may be problematic.

Wonder what would happen converting a Model 70 action. There were low end model 70's in WSM calibers. I had a 300 WSM. Looks like I cannot just grab up any old Savage or Winchester action to make a WSM. Looks like buying a donor rifle would be the fast way to get going on this project.
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Old December 31, 2019, 08:01 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reynolds357
Has to be a large shank savage for WSM.
No it doesn't, go over to Savage Shooters and there are a lot if guys building WSM rifles on small shank actions. The first WSM rifles released by Savage were on small shanks. Pre-fit barrel makers offer barrels in both shank sizes chambered in WSM cartidges.
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Old December 31, 2019, 09:37 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by taylorce1 View Post
No it doesn't, go over to Savage Shooters and there are a lot if guys building WSM rifles on small shank actions. The first WSM rifles released by Savage were on small shanks. Pre-fit barrel makers offer barrels in both shank sizes chambered in WSM cartidges.
Some will build on the small shank but Savage changed all WSM to large shank for a very good reason. If the OEM wont do something for a reason other than $$$, I will abide by their reasoning.
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Old December 31, 2019, 12:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynolds357
Some will build on the small shank but Savage changed all WSM to large shank for a very good reason. If the OEM wont do something for a reason other than $$$, I will abide by their reasoning.
But do you know for certain the reason is because of a safety issue? Remington didn't change their barrel shank diameter with the RUM, SAUM, or WSM cartridges I'm not sure on the .338 LM. The reason I'm using Rem as an example is their barrel tennon or "shank" is roughly the same size as the small shank Savage.

The best reason I've heard on the forums is Savage wanted to use heavier barrel tapers on their target and rifles. The increased the shank size to accommodate this to avoid having to step up their barrels in front of the barrel nut. They didn't increase the size of the action on the large shank nor the O.D. of the barrel nut.

It seems everyone assumes on the forums it was for safety reasons, but I've never found one tech article from Savage stating it is the reason.
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Old December 31, 2019, 04:09 PM   #19
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It would be helpful to actually measure the diameters of the shank on large Savage compared to Remington's in WSM's. It looks like the conversion to WSM on a small shank Savage action is controversial elsewhere. The no-risk conversion is to use a large shank building up a Savage to the WSM. I'm for converting an existing rifle with Large shank. I have a project Savage in 7mm Magnum. No WSM's there.
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Old December 31, 2019, 04:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Wonder what would happen converting a Model 70 action. There were low end model 70's in WSM calibers. I had a 300 WSM. Looks like I cannot just grab up any old Savage or Winchester action to make a WSM. Looks like buying a donor rifle would be the fast way to get going on this project.
Actually, the fast way, would be simply to buy an already made Winchester model 70. There are a bunch of them on Gunbroker right now, many are brand new Supergrades. But the Featherweight and the Sporter are also listed as current production in 270 WSM on Winchester's website.
But then, going that route would circumvent and frustrate the urge to tinker and build it yourself, regardless of the high probability that you will spend more money to get the same results. "Logic's got nothing to do with it, Mister Spock, so stand down and keep the facts to yourself!"
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Old December 31, 2019, 05:00 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by taylorce1 View Post
But do you know for certain the reason is because of a safety issue? Remington didn't change their barrel shank diameter with the RUM, SAUM, or WSM cartridges I'm not sure on the .338 LM. The reason I'm using Rem as an example is their barrel tennon or "shank" is roughly the same size as the small shank Savage.

The best reason I've heard on the forums is Savage wanted to use heavier barrel tapers on their target and rifles. The increased the shank size to accommodate this to avoid having to step up their barrels in front of the barrel nut. They didn't increase the size of the action on the large shank nor the O.D. of the barrel nut.

It seems everyone assumes on the forums it was for safety reasons, but I've never found one tech article from Savage stating it is the reason.
To me it seems Savage never admits they have or had a problem until its so obvious they have to. The exploding RUMs come to mind. (I love Savage, I own 30 something of them)
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Old December 31, 2019, 05:40 PM   #22
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Spock reminds me that a new model 70 will have a warranty....
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Old December 31, 2019, 11:31 PM   #23
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Trivia: The older Winchester Model 70 WSM's.had control feed action before the old style picked back up. The bolt face was flat. The ejector went through a slot in the bolt face. Extractor looked like one from a push feed but the rounds fed up out of the magazine under the extractor. The combination of push controlled fed was featured in the ads at the time.
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Old January 1, 2020, 03:02 PM   #24
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I love the WSMs. Specifically the 270 WSM.

Plenty of good rifles out there already chambered for that cartridge. Pick one. Seems like the easiest method??
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Old January 2, 2020, 10:23 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynolds357
To me it seems Savage never admits they have or had a problem until its so obvious they have to. The exploding RUMs come to mind. (I love Savage, I own 30 something of them)
Well you sent me down a rabbit hole that is for sure!

So I started searching for "The exploding RUMs", and I didn't find much. I found reference to three rifles, and only one of them I can say without a doubt was a small shank .300 RUM. My first internet search led me to a post by "dirtygrass" on monstermuleys.com, which also linked this article.

So in the article that was in "dirtygrass's" post there was this comment by "banana":

"unfortunalty, my husband owned savage 300 ultra mag rifle and on halloween 2009 the rifle exploded into his face.....Serious injuries are the end result.....My husband is a huge hunter and has been for YEARS....No obstruction in barrell and yes this rifle is cleaner than a hospital.....This is not the first time that a 300 ultra mag made by savage arms has exploded......If you own one you need to take it to a professional and find out which bolt and bolt assembly parts have become weak or are faulty before this happens to you or somebody you know. Colorado 2009"

So that in turn I was able to find this lawsuit for the hunter that I believe is being referenced in the comment by "banana". Timeline for the three exploding RUM Savage's were 2004 in Utah, 2009 in Colorado, and 2013 unknown location.

So after this my internet search drys up unless you want to comment on the over 40 law suits against the Savage 10 ML-II.

"Court documents filed in support of Hansen’s case indicate the gun manufacturer was hit by more than 40 lawsuits claiming a gun barrel split or exploded since 2004. Lawyers acting for Hansen claim Savage Arms set up its own internal “muzzleloader return team” that fielded hundreds of warranty and service claims."

So in the case of the exploding .300 RUM Savage rifles we have three documented cases. We have three rifles purchased in the years 2003-04, two from Sports Authority formerly Gart Sports, and one not mentioned. The only one we know for sure is a small shank barrel is the one from "dirtygrass" based on pictures he posted, by being purchased in 03-04 the other two could be either large shank or small shank there is no reference. The one thing that was referenced by both "dirtygrass" and "banana" is that the locking lugs or bolt assembly failed. Not once was there a mention of the barrel exploding or photographic proof that the barrel exploded on a RUM rifle.

In the three cases "dirtygrass" admitted to using reloads, "180gr Branes triple shock, 2 grains under max, home moly coated." The first article linked about the Utah man mentioned factory ammunition was used. The third law suit and "banana" don't mention anything about the ammunition used.

So I can't find any indication that a small shank barrel created these blow up incidents, but I can't find anything that says they didn't. I know I'm not well versed in fluid dynamics, metallurgy, and engineering to say that it or isn't a barrel dimension problem. I also know using firearms and reloading can be dangerous if your equipment or practices are flawed in anyway, I'm sure that's why there are a lot of warnings that come on firearms, ammunition and in reloading manuals and equipment these days.

What I did learn thought was:

1. There was never a recall or warning put out on small shank WSM/RUM cartridge rifles (not including the .17 WSM B-Mag). Those rifles with small shanks are still being used safely without any further incidents.

2. There was never any follow up to any of the law suits, so I'm assuming either dropped or more than likely settled out of court after a non disclosure was signed.
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