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Old December 17, 2019, 10:33 AM   #26
74A95
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Originally Posted by gnystrom View Post
1. Velocity
2. The much greater recoil makes followup shots more difficult.
The 357 is much, much faster than a 38 Special out of a snubbie, like around 400 fps faster.
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Old December 17, 2019, 10:41 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
[QUOTE-74A95]I don't think S&W ever claimed the guns were made almost completely out of Scandium. From my memory S&W had always been clear that only trace amounts of scandium were required to make it as strong as steel.
I didn't say they claimed the guns were made entirely (or nearly so) of Scandium. But they did their best to create that impression. Let's face it -- they call the guns "Scandium." What else is that supposed to convey?

An aluminum alloy often used in firearms is 7075, which contains copper, manganese, chromium, and zinc. So if the Big Blaster Revolver Company uses that alloy for their frames, the equivalent would be for them to call their guns "Manganese" or "Chromium."

Call it what you want -- S&W's "Scandium" is an aluminum alloy with trace amounts of scandium.[/QUOTE]


This is exactly right.
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Old December 17, 2019, 10:44 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by 74A95 View Post
The 357 is much, much faster than a 38 Special out of a snubbie, like around 400 fps faster.
I think the .357 makes more sense out of a snub nose than the .38 as it is usually able to still generate some meaningful velocity. JMHO.
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Old December 17, 2019, 11:03 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
[QUOTE-74A95]I don't think S&W ever claimed the guns were made almost completely out of Scandium. From my memory S&W had always been clear that only trace amounts of scandium were required to make it as strong as steel.
I didn't say they claimed the guns were made entirely (or nearly so) of Scandium. But they did their best to create that impression. Let's face it -- they call the guns "Scandium." What else is that supposed to convey?

An aluminum alloy often used in firearms is 7075, which contains copper, manganese, chromium, and zinc. So if the Big Blaster Revolver Company uses that alloy for their frames, the equivalent would be for them to call their guns "Manganese" or "Chromium."

Call it what you want -- S&W's "Scandium" is an aluminum alloy with trace amounts of scandium.[/QUOTE]

How would you name them to distinguish between the aluminum alloy guns and the scandium alloy guns?

Calling their guns Scandium is a way to distinguish their Scandium alloy guns from their aluminum alloy guns. Or would you folks prefer they call them both aluminum guns and leave people scratching their head over why one aluminum gun cost twice as much as the other aluminum gun and why one is as strong as steel why the other one isn't?
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Old December 17, 2019, 11:46 AM   #30
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I am waiting for the lowrecoilium.
That would be a tungsten framed model.
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Old December 17, 2019, 12:07 PM   #31
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The 357 is much, much faster than a 38 Special out of a snubbie, like around 400 fps faster.
I'm starting to consider that myself. The trick is finding the right balance of handgun weight, ergonomics and a lower recoil 357 load. 357 ammo runs a wide range of bullet weights and power levels. You can't just pick any random 357 and expect it to do well in a snubbie.

One should in theory get compact semi-auto 9mm +P level ballistics out of a 357 snubnose with the right ammo. The question is can one control it as well as a compact 9mm semi-auto?

I plan on testing this with a S&W Shield 9mm semi loaded with 124gr +P Gold Dots, an alloy framed .38 Special 642 loaded with 135gr +P Gold Dots, and a SS framed .357 640 Pro trying a bunch of different 357 SD ammo.
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Old December 17, 2019, 12:30 PM   #32
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One should in theory get compact semi-auto 9mm +P level ballistics out of a 357 snubnose with the right ammo. The question is can one control it as well as a compact 9mm semi-auto?
Yeah, recoil from 357s in the snubbies can be brutal. Ballistics of a full power 357 in a 2" barrel push a 125 grain bullet to 1250 fps (and that's what I get from Remington 125 SJHP 357 Magnum ammo from my 2" Colt Magnum Carry), which is as good or better than a 124 grain 9mm +P from a 4" barrel. There are lighter 357 loads available to help keep recoil down.

There's 38/357 ballistic and gel data at the lucky gunner website; https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...llistics-test/
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Old December 17, 2019, 01:39 PM   #33
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Yeah, recoil from 357s in the snubbies can be brutal. Ballistics of a full power 357 in a 2" barrel push a 125 grain bullet to 1250 fps (and that's what I get from Remington 125 SJHP 357 Magnum ammo from my 2" Colt Magnum Carry), which is as good or better than a 124 grain 9mm +P from a 4" barrel. There are lighter 357 loads available to help keep recoil down.
That's exactly it. It's not an all or nothing proposition with .357

For example if you sort the Lucky Gunner data by velocity, you can see a couple loads (like 125gr Golden Saber at just under 1100fps) that are right in the 9mm non +P equivalent range when shot from a 2" Kimber K6 and then they go up from there all the way up to Buffalo Bore 125gr Barnes doing over 1400fps from the 2".
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Old December 17, 2019, 02:03 PM   #34
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I found the Hornady 125 FTX is a good compromise with my SW340CT. Any of the 357 mag 158 grains quickly forms a knot in between my palm and thumb and it lasts for a week or more. lol I also use BB 158 gr 38 +P, and that is a powerful yet doable round for the lightweight revolver on the trail... east coast. I like shooting my 329PD, but that gets miserable quick as well. lol
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Old December 17, 2019, 04:12 PM   #35
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292 ft lbs with 147 gr 9mm jhp in a modified 12oz 637-2.
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Old December 17, 2019, 05:43 PM   #36
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AirLite S&W 317 in 22 LR rides in a belt holster unnoticed .
Airweight S&W 637 in 38 special slips in a holster or pocket very easily and very comfortably .
These attributes lead to rule #1...Have a gun ON YOUR PERSON !
If it's heavy or uncomfortable ...you leave them at home...lite and comfortable , chances are it goes out the door with you . If it's with you and trouble happens it sure beats a full size 1911 45 acp at home.
After decades of experience the light weights have won the "have it on your person " contest.
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Old December 17, 2019, 08:03 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by dontcatchmany View Post
I am waiting for the lowrecoilium.
Felt recoil is generally less with larger mass weapons.
My Barrett .50 has less felt recoil than my Desert Eagle. But then that extra 30+ lbs tends to absorb the momentum.
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Old December 17, 2019, 08:31 PM   #38
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. Velocity
Old wives tail.
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Regardless, don’t let anyone lead you down the wrong path. I don’t care if they live behind a gun-shop counter, are some sort of Internet expert or are a gun writer extraordinaire. Facts are facts; .38 Special +P ammo is marginally more effective than .38 Special, and .357 Magnum loads are substantially more effective, even when fired from short barrels. Funny thing about facts; they’re hard to argue.
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...vs-357-magnum/

Only by a couple hundred feet per second!
Quote:
Barrel Length 1.875″ 2″ 2.125″ 2.25″ 2.5″ 3.16″ 4″ 4″ 4.2″ 6″ 17″
load avg avg avg avg avg avg avg avg avg avg avg
Federal .38 Spl
130 gr FMJ 762 793 764 807 832 844 763 828 852 885 1041
Winchester .38 Spl
148 gr Wadcutter 698 713 701 722 709 741 746 740 764 763 896
Federal .38 Spl
158 gr SWCHP +P 754 788 804 820 797 872 917 882 892 921 1135
Speer .38 Spl
135 gr Gold Dot +P 853 863 884 886 894 927 874 945 987 982 1084
Magtech .357 Mag
158 gr SJHP 1008 1031 1063 1030 1043 1192 1190 1105 1210 1288 1711
Winchester .357 Mag
110 gr JHP 1160 1188 — 1187 1183 1273 1234 1265 1330 1304 1725
Hornady .357 Mag
135 gr Critical Duty 1116 1144 — 1181 1177 1242 1257 — 1272 1319 1459
Remington .357 Mag
125 gr Golden Saber 1077 1100 — 1133 1125 1232 1277 — 1
The chart is eadier to read in the article.
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/r...barrel-length/
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Old December 19, 2019, 11:01 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by 74A95 View Post
The 357 is much, much faster than a 38 Special out of a snubbie, like around 400 fps faster.
I never said the velocity using a 38 is equal to that of a .357. What I was pointing out is the velocity loss or a .357 is greater than if it were fired from a longer barreled gun. That said, my second point would be the most relevant and was the ability for an accurate followup shot. I am an RSO and anytime someone cycles .357's from their snubbie, everyone stops to see what was making all the noise and flash.
I look at my DA snubbies as needing to keep a fist size hole at 30'. I can to that with 38's, I struggle to do that with 125gr .357's. Especially during a string of somewhat rapid fire. A 400fps increase will do nothing if one cannot keep their shots on target.
Carry what you feel comfortable with and for me it is no more than 135 gr. Gold Dots which was designed specifically for short barreled guns
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Old December 20, 2019, 02:22 AM   #40
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.357 is a lot faster than .38 from a snub revolver, but it depends on the ammo you're using.

I see no point in a .357 in a snub, I won't shoot it well, so there's no reason for me to spend hundreds more over a .38 snub.

If this is focused entirely on .357 alloy revolvers, I have no answer as to what's next, but if we want to talk about how to make revolvers even lighter, it's using a smaller frame in a smaller caliber like .32.

Kel Tec has the lightest pocket pistol in the P32, Charter has been making 12oz .32's and .38's on aluminum frames for a long time, so the next step for S&W is to bring back the I frame, make it Scandium framed, and put it in .32 Mag and make it in 5 shot to reduce the cylinder diameter.

Would probably weigh 9oz.
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Old December 20, 2019, 07:25 PM   #41
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I love scandium framed sidearms. Open carried the S&W 329PD from Feb. 2011 until around Jan. 2018 when I bought my scandium framed S&W SW1911 SC E-series .45. Both are very light for their caliber, but also heavy hitting, if necessary.

The 329PD is a beast (read: "Good God-almighty, that HURT!!!") with .44 Mag rounds. Like a baseball bat to the hand type of hurt. With .44 Specials, it's a pussycat.

The 1911 is a bit better with standard .45 ball ammo. I love carrying them both albeit a bit large for CCW. They'll both do the job if, heaven forbid, I ever need them to.
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Old December 20, 2019, 07:33 PM   #42
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I love scandium framed sidearms. Open carried the S&W 329PD from Feb. 2011 until around Jan. 2018 when I bought my scandium framed S&W SW1911 SC E-series .45. Both are very light for their caliber, but also heavy hitting, if necessary.

The 329PD is a beast (read: "Good God-almighty, that HURT!!!") with .44 Mag rounds. Like a baseball bat to the hand type of hurt. With .44 Specials, it's a pussycat.

The 1911 is a bit better with standard .45 ball ammo. I love carrying them both albeit a bit large for CCW. They'll both do the job if, heaven forbid, I ever need them to.
Shooting the 329 is definitely a miserable way to spend some time... and it takes a couple days for my hands to return to their normal state... at least my dominant hand. I still love it though... so light and if you need it, it is big firepower.
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Old December 20, 2019, 07:49 PM   #43
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I had a 329 and a 360PD.

The J frame was miserable to shoot with magnums. The 329 not so bad, maybe because the grips were bigger.

The J frame did not hold up to magnums and the 329, everything I tried jumped crimp.
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Old December 20, 2019, 09:37 PM   #44
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I had a 360PD.

The J frame did not hold up to magnums a
Can you elaborate on this please? Did it shoot loose, or break or ??

How many magnums did it shoot before it broke or whatever?

Thanks.
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Old December 20, 2019, 10:08 PM   #45
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I had a 329 and a 360PD.

The J frame was miserable to shoot with magnums. The 329 not so bad, maybe because the grips were bigger.

The J frame did not hold up to magnums and the 329, everything I tried jumped crimp.
I'll admit the J frames are miserable to shoot with magnums, but I found the 357 125gr Hornady FTX, acceptable.... even with that tiny crimson trace grip.

As far as the 329PD 4 inch, I fire Garretts out of them and I have never had any issue with crimp jump. http://www.garrettcartridges.com/44defendertech.html These are probably the max you ever want to shoot in the 329... and it is miserable. lol

What exactly do you run in your 329?
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Old December 25, 2019, 08:09 PM   #46
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Using Hornady 140 gr., XTP in...

M36, M37, & M60.

I find not difference in targets nor recoil.

The 37 is great for carry and the 36 & 60 ket you know they ate there!

All comes down to practicing.
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