|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
September 13, 2019, 05:58 AM | #51 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2014
Posts: 577
|
The Downside
If I need a gun there how about staying away. How many permit holds have not shot a handgun since the qualifications? To me, those people are more of a threat than some shooter. It's gotten worse as of late with open carry. Anybody with a full size Glock in an Uncles Mike's holster does not come across very well with me.
__________________
Intentionally Antagonizing Another MemberInsults and Ad Hominems |
September 13, 2019, 06:36 AM | #52 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 2,780
|
Quote:
__________________
Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war. |
|
September 13, 2019, 06:50 AM | #53 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,475
|
Quote:
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” |
|
September 13, 2019, 07:23 AM | #54 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 15, 2019
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 210
|
In my experience and observations, those who do, seldom engage in lengthy discussions as this thread, they simply do it. And those who engage in such long winded debates, well, they seldom really do carry.
|
September 13, 2019, 08:12 AM | #55 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,215
|
Quote:
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk |
|
September 13, 2019, 09:34 AM | #56 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2014
Posts: 577
|
I have not seen anybody shot in nearly fifty years. If you want to pack a gun you don't need an excuse. My point is a majority of permit holders that I know have not had practice since getting the permit . As for open carry, training should be the same as for an LEO. How many permit holders have any target identification training or can keep five shots out of ten in the 9 ring in a B27 target at five yards?
__________________
Intentionally Antagonizing Another MemberInsults and Ad Hominems |
September 14, 2019, 04:33 PM | #57 | ||
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,974
|
Quote:
That's the only way that permit holders will have a chance of making a significant difference in mass shooting outcomes with any kind of reasonable frequency. Quote:
But it's really moot at this point, IMO. We (the entire gun community/permit holders) have had chances to make a difference in mass shootings and yet have really had no significant impact in the big picture. It has now gotten to the point that too many people believe that something must be done and so something is going to be done. I'm not blaming anyone or saying anyone shirked their responsibilities because I don't believe that is the case. The gun community isn't responsible for mass shootings, nor is it responsible for stopping them. It would have helped the situation if we could address the "do something crowd" by pointing to a significant percentage of mass shootings where permit holders obviously made a real difference in the outcome but the numbers just don't support that kind of a rebuttal. Anyway, just my take on the situation as it currently stands.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
||
September 14, 2019, 06:01 PM | #58 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 22, 2016
Posts: 2,192
|
It is possible that potential mass shootings, stopped early by the use or display of lethal force, are simply never acknowledged as mass shootings.
|
September 14, 2019, 07:18 PM | #59 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 2,780
|
Quote:
__________________
Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war. |
|
September 14, 2019, 07:33 PM | #60 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 21, 2018
Location: AZ
Posts: 236
|
Do I carry at home?
100% of the home invasions happen at home |
September 14, 2019, 09:40 PM | #61 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2014
Posts: 577
|
This self regulation of skill levels is a submarine with screen doors. Here the fear is of an unqualified totally untrained permit holder engaging anybody in a crowded situation with a firearm.
__________________
Intentionally Antagonizing Another MemberInsults and Ad Hominems |
September 14, 2019, 09:46 PM | #62 |
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,974
|
A person can be afraid of anything, but, IMO, that's not a reasonable fear at all.
The only reasonable conclusion supported by the statistics is that the large majority of permit holders carry only occasionally and/or seem heavily predisposed not to intervene. Which means that the fear is akin to the fear of being trampled by a zebra in North America. It could happen, but it's not something a rational person should concern themselves with.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
September 15, 2019, 06:36 AM | #63 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2014
Posts: 577
|
Rational Fear?
So my fear from an untrained person with a handgun is irrational because of a survey? Those dots don't connect.
__________________
Intentionally Antagonizing Another MemberInsults and Ad Hominems |
September 15, 2019, 06:52 AM | #64 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 11, 2016
Posts: 1,089
|
If someone is not well trained, I probably would prefer they not intervene at all, than attempt to intervene and cause further damage. I guess I don't have a lot of concern about an untrained person shooting because -- as said above -- an awful lot of people don't carry often, or at all, and if they do they're unlikely to intervene. That doesn't mean it can't happen, of course.
Considering the media environment, can you imagine what would happen if an armed citizen tried to intervene in a shooting and missed, hitting someone else? That would probably become a bigger story than the mass shooter. Heck, even if the citizen DID stop the mass shooter, the one miss would be all that dominated the headlines, and politicians would be pledging to "do something" to curb all these CCW people who are out there just waiting to explode. Personally, while I see that someone highly trained is certainly better able to confront a killer than Joe and Jane CCW who haven't cleaned their guns in 5 years, I still wonder about the feasibility of anyone with a pistol realistically confronting someone armed with (in recent cases, at least) a rifle and body armor. The asymmetry of the situation is off the charts, not least because the murderer is there specifically to harm as many as possible, and there's no such thing as a penalty for missing a shot. Anything living is a valid target. Anyone responding has to consider the environment, and for that reason I would think the first priority is to escape and not engage unless directly and immediately threatened. It's all conjecture of course. I've experienced the adrenaline rush and confusion of a force-on-force with plastic pellets and that got intense, and I knew the stakes were low. I can't imagine being in a real situation like that! |
September 15, 2019, 07:00 AM | #65 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,475
|
Quote:
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” |
|
September 15, 2019, 07:28 AM | #66 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,215
|
Quote:
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk |
|
September 15, 2019, 08:31 AM | #67 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,968
|
I've forgotten how many stolen gun from car reports I've taken over the years. the excuses I hear the most are: * I was only in the store for a few minutes. * I was hot and it was too big to carry.
|
September 15, 2019, 09:25 AM | #68 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,475
|
Quote:
Regardless of which gun I own, number one on the list is 'FTS-Fun To Shoot'...
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” |
|
September 15, 2019, 12:35 PM | #69 | ||||
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,974
|
Quote:
Quote:
When was the last time you saw an incident involving a permit holder "engaging anybody in a crowded situation with a firearm" resulting in unintentional casualties? Quote:
I'm not saying that it's not happening because permit holders are really skilled and well-trained. I'm saying it's not happening because: Quote:
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
||||
September 15, 2019, 02:01 PM | #70 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 15, 2011
Location: N Ireland. UK.
Posts: 1,809
|
Mass shooters are a lot of things, but i am sure they are not all stupid. If they think a lot of people are likely to be armed in certain locations, they will just move the attack. So people being armed could move attacks but not stop them. As for CCW holders carrying all the time, that would be up to them. Americans would not accept the level of security and the disruption it would cause to help stop some shootings.
Last edited by manta49; September 15, 2019 at 02:06 PM. |
September 15, 2019, 02:11 PM | #71 | ||
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,974
|
Quote:
In some (many?) cases the target is obviously chosen for very specific reasons that have nothing to do with the chances of armed resistance. e.g. If a mass shooter is targeting coworkers, the site of the shooting will likely be the workplace, regardless of whether it's a GFZ or not. Quote:
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
||
September 15, 2019, 03:12 PM | #72 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 2,780
|
Quote:
__________________
Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war. |
|
September 15, 2019, 03:17 PM | #73 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 15, 2011
Location: N Ireland. UK.
Posts: 1,809
|
Quote:
|
|
September 15, 2019, 04:11 PM | #74 | |
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,974
|
Quote:
He picked it because there were likely to be a lot of Mexican Nationals in it and that's who he was targeting. In other words, he picked that location because it allowed him to target the people he wanted to kill. And he picked it in spite of the incontrovertible facts that it was a gun friendly location in a gun friendly state. By the way, the statistics, assuming he bothered with anything like that--personally I think he never gave it a second thought, suggest that even with the large number of Mexican Nationals in the store, there should still have been around 20-50 permit holders present at the time of the shooting. The range depends on how you run the TX permit statistics and how one estimates the percentage of Mexican Nationals to TX residents. None of them made a difference in the outcome, either because they chose not to carry or chose not to intervene. (Which is, again, their right. There's no obligation to carry or to intervene.)
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
|
September 15, 2019, 08:56 PM | #75 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2014
Posts: 577
|
What a mess
It is dangerous to have the Mall Ninjas and Wanna Be's running around armed with no training. It is a disaster going to happen.
__________________
Intentionally Antagonizing Another MemberInsults and Ad Hominems |
|
|