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Old December 11, 2019, 12:48 AM   #1
mxsailor803
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Shaw rifles

Has anyone actually seen, shot, or heard anything about the Shaw assembled rifles? I’m seriously considering one in 6.8spc since it’s dang near impossible to find a 700 in 6.8, and to build a 700 in 6.8 would be very close to the same price.
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Old December 11, 2019, 02:13 AM   #2
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One of my customers brought one in a few weeks ago, a Mark VII. Not a bad looking rifle, very conventional looking, looks a lot like a Savage 110. Said it shoots well, but the bolt knob is TINY and has sharp flutes in it, making it painful to work the bolt. Recoil pad is one of those thick hard as a truck tire things you get on cheap rifles. No problem, replaced the bolt knob and the recoil pad and away he goes. But REALLY? A semi-custom rifle with issues like that? But he says it shoots good.
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Old December 11, 2019, 03:06 AM   #3
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I went to their store the other year to check it out, and pick up a barrel i ordered.
They are located just south of Pittsburgh.
While there i was looking at their model VII in 7mm Rem Mag.
Stainless fluted barrel, braked with laminate stock. Had i the money, i would have walked out with it!
Talking with them, they are using Savage actions.
They true them, lap the bolt lug raceways, and put one of their barrels on minus the Savage nut, think Rem 700.
Looking at the barrel and muzzle brake, i couldn't discern the line where it meets the barrel. I actually thought it was a machined part of the barrel. The guy unscrewed it to show that it wasn't.

As for small bolt knob, i did not notice while i was running the bolt. Action was smooth.
As for the stock and recoil pad, they looked like Boyds.

One of the gun magazines reviewed one a couple of years ago. They gave it a favorable review.

I have 2 E.R. Shaw barrels now, soon to order a third for a Mauser build.
Both shoot rather well.
Bryce Towsley (gun writer) owns at least one, and has remarked on it's accuracy also. And he doesn't shoot little stuff either!

If i had the money, i wouldn't hesitate to buy one!
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Old December 11, 2019, 09:15 AM   #4
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I’ve actually never owned one of the nicer Savage actions. I’ve had a Axis years ago which was a very accurate rifle. Not too worried about recoil sense I’m looking at the 6.8spc. This will be a dedicated hunting rifle and as light as realistically possible. I’m not worried about a small bolt knob due to I’m use to using Remington 700’s. I’ve got several Shaw barrels but they are all rimfires. This would be my first “custom” bolt action.
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Old December 11, 2019, 11:53 AM   #5
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They use their barrels for their rifles. Thats enough to make me not want one.
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Old December 11, 2019, 01:49 PM   #6
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They use their barrels for their rifles. Thats enough to make me not want one.
Zing!
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Old December 11, 2019, 02:59 PM   #7
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Wow!
Really?!
Alas, all i've used is hunting profile barrels. When i finally do build a designated range rifle i wouldn't hesitate in trying them!
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Old December 11, 2019, 03:13 PM   #8
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They use their barrels for their rifles. Thats enough to make me not want one.
To be fair to ER Shaw, their barrels are OK. But just OK. They are not great accuracy barrels, they typically shoot 1/2MOA or so in my experience. Their barrels are not well stress relieved, but in the case of their rifles it doesn't matter. I would probably not use one for a dedicated range gun, but on a hunting rifle it would be OK. From what I heard ER Shaw made some of the Adams & Bennet barrels Midway used to sell, and I used a couple of those on hunting rifles. But for just a little more money, you can get a really good barrel.
Quote:
I’m not worried about a small bolt knob due to I’m use to using Remington 700’s.
No, I mean really small, like the size of a small olive. Smaller than a 700 bolt knob.
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Old December 11, 2019, 03:25 PM   #9
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They use their barrels for their rifles. Thats enough to make me not want one.
Indeed.
Nothing but disappointment came from the money that I gave ER Shaw for barrels.

I have heard that the rifles are fairly decent shooters, but not much else.


Combine the Shaw barrel, and a Savage action, and I have no interest in one.
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Old December 11, 2019, 05:22 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by FrankenMauser View Post
Indeed.
Nothing but disappointment came from the money that I gave ER Shaw for barrels.

I have heard that the rifles are fairly decent shooters, but not much else.


Combine the Shaw barrel, and a Savage action, and I have no interest in one.
Nothing wrong with Savage action, but not my preference for a custom.
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Old December 11, 2019, 08:41 PM   #11
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How odd. Different people have had some very different experiences.

I have used ER Shaw barrels for over 50 years, on many builds and re-barrel jobs. Lots of other makers too, but the very worst from an ER Shaw barrel I ever used was a 30-06 I re-barreled for a friend in Carson City Nevada on a Remington 721 and it still shot about 1-1/8" at 100. With more load work it may have done better but he never took the time to find out. He just used it that way with factory 180 grain ammo and was always happy with it. The barrel I removed was rusted badly about 1/3 the way up from the muzzle, so he told me around 1 inch was "great" for what he wanted the gun to do.

Most other Shaw barrels shot sub MOA, and I own a 270 Winchester made on a Mauser and a 375H&H on a Mauser now that both shoot under 1/2 MOA.
I own a Mauser I chambered in 9.3X57 that shoots about 1 MOA and a 9.3X62 that shoots groups that average about .800" both of which have ER Shaw barrels in them.

One of my AR15 in 6.8 SPC has a Shaw in it, and it shoots about .600"-750" at 100 yards.

I made a 222 Remington for an older man about 15 years ago with an ER Shaw on a short action SAKO that shot "sub pea size groups" with many going under .035" CTC. Not 350 thousands. 35 thousands.

If I compare ER Shaw to some other high priced barrels I can see the low end of the accuracy spectrum for them all leans a bit toward the Shaw, but only buy about .300" to maybe .400" as an average would be my guess.

And for their price they have been very very good in my 1/2 century of experience as a gunsmith.

So I'd rate them on a scale of 1 to 10 as about a 7 for accuracy averages , but on a scale of 1-10 for value, I put them at a 9 or a 10.

If you are not shooting bench rest competition I would not talk anyone out of an ER Shaw barrel. Some do shoot as well and any high priced barrel, but some are just "good" instead of "unbelievably good".

Are there really bad ones?
I am sure there have been. I think that can be said of any barrel maker at times.

So I would not say ER Shaw never made any bad barrels.

It's just that I never have seen one.
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Old December 12, 2019, 12:00 AM   #12
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I've also used ER Shaw barrels since the 80s. I have a custom throated 6.5-06, 243 Win, and 280 Remington for my 700 and my son's MarkX. These barrels shoot cloverleaf groups all day, with the exception of the 243. It shoots .2". I've been immensely pleased with them.
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Old December 12, 2019, 03:33 AM   #13
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To the people that are showing their dislike,
You are aware about 2-3 years ago they spent some major money on re-tooling?
New CNC machines, and such.

Have you tried them since that time?
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Old December 12, 2019, 12:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorch
No, I mean really small, like the size of a small olive. Smaller than a 700 bolt knob.
They look like a standard Savage 10/110 bolt handle to me from the website pictures. They're not my favorite by any means, they are easily replaced for minimal cost. It isn't the size of the knob that I don't like, it's the bolt handle length.

Factory Savage


Not factory Savage
Stockade (Kevin Rayhill) Handle





Sharp Shooter Supply bolt handle.



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Old December 12, 2019, 06:35 PM   #15
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Lack of iron sights kills it for me.
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Old December 12, 2019, 07:04 PM   #16
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Bolt Handles and A&B barrels

The bolt handle on my antique 110FP was too small and too short for what I was doing. I called Savage to order a new style bolt handle with the cylindrical knob. The current bolt handle went on the older rifle with no problem. I have used the metal trigger guard from current guns to replace the old plastic items. The Savage people explain that new parts it may or may not work. These times it did work

Addams&Bennett Barrels. Not long ago Green Mountain had a close out of A&B barrels. There was not much left in that inventory. I could not believe it. Looks GM may be the daddy of A&B barrels. My A&B barrel give excellent accuracy group after group.
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Old December 12, 2019, 07:58 PM   #17
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A&B was a Midway brand.
The source of those barrels was whichever supplier had the production capacity (or excess inventory) and best price at the time.

Douglas and Shaw are known to have supplied quite a few of them.
Green Mountain is suspected of being involved.
I've heard that Shilen dumped some inventory their way at least once, as well.
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Last edited by FrankenMauser; December 12, 2019 at 08:07 PM.
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Old December 14, 2019, 10:45 PM   #18
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Entertaining to see how different shooters define acceptable accuracy. Not too many years back, a sub moa rifle was very acceptable for varmints and prairie dogs. Hunting rifle accuracy was more generous as many hunting rigs were seldom used for shooting game past a couple hundred yards. Now long range shooting is the rage, and the desired accuracy has been tightened down, to the point that a 2 moa rifle is often viewed as a candidate for the trade block, and some shooters seem to sneer at just moa accuracy. And I confess to being the same way. Can't help it...I just NEED 1/2" groups from my hunting rifles! At least thats my excuse for a big shelf full of various powders and half empty boxes of bullets.
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Old December 15, 2019, 07:23 AM   #19
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To get a good perspective on Savage Actions it would be a good thing to look at the current first line rifles. The old gun would work well. The new actions are better finished and do not have the cheap look of the old guns. Savage has more haters than Glock.

A barrel that did average .5 inch is pretty OK with me. That's average, not the best single group. I'd also have to ask if the negative stuff came from experience or stuff from a gun rag or such.

So far as I'm concerned, there is a smoking gun on A&B barrels. That's when GM put them on sale. The is no firm evidence otherwise. The A&B barrel, like Shaw, has a pretty good rep amongst regular users. My old Savage with an A&B barrel runs just fine. Got a Savage 110 7mm Magnum for a donor gun. Along with the action, I have a Shaw barrel ready to go in 458 Magnum. So....
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Old December 15, 2019, 09:02 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by J.G. Terry View Post
To get a good perspective on Savage Actions it would be a good thing to look at the current first line rifles. The old gun would work well. The new actions are better finished and do not have the cheap look of the old guns. Savage has more haters than Glock.

A barrel that did average .5 inch is pretty OK with me. That's average, not the best single group. I'd also have to ask if the negative stuff came from experience or stuff from a gun rag or such.

So far as I'm concerned, there is a smoking gun on A&B barrels. That's when GM put them on sale. The is no firm evidence otherwise. The A&B barrel, like Shaw, has a pretty good rep amongst regular users. My old Savage with an A&B barrel runs just fine. Got a Savage 110 7mm Magnum for a donor gun. Along with the action, I have a Shaw barrel ready to go in 458 Magnum. So....
I dont see any hate for Savage. Seem pretty loved to me. I like them, but they are not going to be the basis of any of my full customs. Putting a high grade wood stock on Savage is like putting a 32 coat lacquer paint job om a Ford Pinto. Savage is accurate and utilitarian. They just cant be made to be pretty.
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Old December 15, 2019, 09:05 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Colorado Redneck View Post
Entertaining to see how different shooters define acceptable accuracy. Not too many years back, a sub moa rifle was very acceptable for varmints and prairie dogs. Hunting rifle accuracy was more generous as many hunting rigs were seldom used for shooting game past a couple hundred yards. Now long range shooting is the rage, and the desired accuracy has been tightened down, to the point that a 2 moa rifle is often viewed as a candidate for the trade block, and some shooters seem to sneer at just moa accuracy. And I confess to being the same way. Can't help it...I just NEED 1/2" groups from my hunting rifles! At least thats my excuse for a big shelf full of various powders and half empty boxes of bullets.
For a big game rifle, I need it to grouop 1" at 200 yards over 5 cold bore shots.
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Old December 15, 2019, 11:04 AM   #22
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reynolds357 just made it onto my eternal ignore list.
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Old December 17, 2019, 01:18 PM   #23
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I’ve had good luck with ER Shaw. As others have said, 1/2 Moa groups are about what you’ll get but that’s fine for me. I mean I would be displeased with that if I were a bench rest shooter. But I’m not. 1/2 moa rifle is a good point where returns diminish significantly beyond that unless you shoot benchrest. Spending money on ammo and learning to read wind really well will make you much more money at long range shooting than going from 1/2 to 1/4 moa groups.

15 years ago 1/2 moa groups for the $190 shipped to my door Shaw barrel was a smoking deal honestly. I looked the other day and they appear to have gone up a tad in price. Still reasonable.
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Old December 25, 2019, 09:47 AM   #24
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A&B Barrels

A&B Barrels: I have both Shilen and Douglas barrels that are well finished. The A&B barrels are noted for having a rough bore. This is my experience with A&B barrels. Rough but accurate. To me the claim Shilen or Douglas overstocked barrels were used in A&B barrels is bull hockey to the core.
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Old January 23, 2020, 10:43 PM   #25
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Totally random but if you’re not stuck on 6.8 spc CZ makes their mini action model 527 in 6.5 grendel.
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