Broken transfer bar-Part II

[bamaranger]

You may recall I posted that I'd broken a transfer bar on a Ruger Blackhawk. Here is a follow up post on the install and overall story.

I spoke to Ruger South Carolina on Monday, and the parts arrived by US mail Friday. I'd asked for 2 transfer bars so as to have a spare, and that is what they sent, no charge. I sat down with the revolver tonight and installed the new part.

The transfer bars arrived "in the gray"...which is a switch after looking at a blued steel one for 30 years. Not stainless, the new bars will draw a magnet, simply unfinished. There is apparent machining done on the flats to get the parts to spec, in fact the invoice calls them transfer bar (mach.).

After watching a couple of Y-Tube videos, (including the ones posted by Ruger) I had the revolver apart in about 15 minutes. Getting the transfer bar into the gun, and the hammer and trigger to mesh was the most difficult part of reassembly......ain't nothing to it if you know how to do it....but I didn't, and struggled a bit 'till the magic happened. Once I got the relationship of the hammer and trigger figured, the rest of the gun when back together easily enough. I'd say the whole job took me,... totally unfamilar except for the videos,... just a tad over an hour. That would include a scrub and relube of all the parts.

One thing regards the single action really struck me. That old revolver has been down the river, many a mile first in a Bianchi #1, and later in an Aircrew chest holster. For near 30 years, its hung in the Bronco in the dust, waded thru cutover and thicket, been rained on and dunked in a fall, and shows all the cosmetic wear you would expect. On most forays, I'd shoot at least a cylinder full of modest power reloads at some point. I have NEVER had the frame apart. And in this episode, I was amazed at how relatively clean the internals were. No weed seeds, very little crud, a breeze to detail clean and relube before reassembly.

Thinking about it, there is just very little opportunity or locations where crud can get in. And a lot of the carbon and powder residue goes south at the barrel cylinder gap. Despite my broken part, I gained a new respect for the single action.

[DPris]

Most stainless materials used in gunmaking are magnetic, so that's no real test.
I'd suspect your bar is stainless.
Ruger's gone to stainless hammers across the board now, I THINK they did that with the bars, too.

Otherwise, a fairly "sealed" platform.
I was surprised to see how clean the insides were on an Old Army after some intensive BP firing.
Denis

[4V50 Gary]

Good of Ruger.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

All Ruger Transfer Bars are Investment Castings. Always have been. So are most of the small parts in a Ruger revolver, and so is the frame. Just about the only parts on a Ruger Revolver that are not Investment Castings are the barrel and cylinder. These are traditionally made forged and turned parts. For the record, Investment Castings are much better and stronger parts than traditional die cast parts, and Ruger was in the forefront of developing Investment Cast parts for firearms.

As with many things firearms related, Ruger Transfer Bars have evolved over time.

Here are a few photos of Ruger Transfer Bars.

This first one is in my old 45 Colt Blackhawk that I bought brand new in 1975. I was surprised when I dug out the old Blackhawk to see the transfer bar was blued, I have not shot it much recently. Sorry for the gunk around the firing pin. There is a bit of wear at the top surface of this transfer bar, indicating where the hammer smacks it. Also, not so visible in this photo because of relatively poor lighting, this transfer bar was polished smooth prior to blueing.

Yes, the transfer bar is sitting crooked. Most of them are. It has to do with the amount of slop in the hole in the trigger where the transfer bar mounts.






This Transfer Bar is in a Stainless 'original model' Vaquero. Not sure exactly when this one was made, it was either 1993 or 2000. I have two of these Stainless Vaqueros and this photo is pretty old. Not really sure which gun it is. The lighting is better in this photo, and you can see the 'pebbly' surface that is typical of Investment Cast parts. It has to do with the texture of the ceramic molds. I really don't know if this part is Stainless or carbon steel, but I suspect it is Stainless. No rust, and I am not all that great at keeping my guns oiled. Notice that this transfer bar is sitting crooked too.






This is a newer Transfer Bar in a blued Ruger New Vaquero that was made in 2013. Notice there is a 'step' on the top of this transfer bar. That is where the hammer smacks it. I really doubt if this transfer bar has been machined at all, the pebbly texture shows this is the way it was broken out of the mold. Even on the raised surface where the hammer smacks it. Machining it would have been an extra step in its manufacture, and Ruger is terrific at driving out cost to manufacture. This one seems to be resting reasonably square. I suspect this one is Stainless too, it cannot be seen with the hammer down, so there is really no reason to blue it. Ruger is not going to stock two separate parts when one will do the trick for everything.

You can see the remains of a parting line on the front curve of the hammer, indicating that it too is an Investment Cast part. The rest of the hammer has been polished smooth, because it is a highly visible part.






Ruger is a master of driving the cost out of manufacturing. That polished, blued transfer bar from 1975 required the extra steps of polishing and blueing to make it. That adds cost.

Yes, taking a Ruger apart and putting it back together again is much more of a pain than doing the same with a Colt or clone. That guy in the Ruger videos has probably been doing it forever, so he can do it very easily. I have not taken a Ruger apart in quite a while, but I can almost take a Colt apart and get it back together again blindfolded. I cannot say the same about taking a Ruger apart.

By the way, the presence or lack of magnetic attraction is not a good indicator of Stainless Steel. Contrary to popular belief, some Stainless Steels are magnetic, some are not. It depends how the crystalline structure forms as the metal cools. A metallurgist, which I am not, could fill us in on the details of that. I have several Smith and Wesson revolvers with Stainless frames, they are all magnetic. I do have one Stainless Uberti Remington Model 1858 Cap & Ball replica. Although the frame is stainless, it is not magnetic.

[dahermit]

Contrary to popular belief, some Stainless Steels are magnetic, some are not. It depends how the crystalline structure forms as the metal cools.

There are three general categories of stainless steels, Martensitic, Ferritic, and Austenitic. Austenitic Stainless Steels are non-magnetic...the other two are attracted to a magnet. It has nothing to do with how they cool, it has to do with the alloy itself (the amount of Chromium, molybdenum and Nickel).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel

[BobCat45]

dahermit is exactly right.

Here is more, in a nutshell:
https://www.unifiedalloys.com/blog/s...ades-families/

[bamaranger]

Well, you learn something every day, or should. Here I thought that ALL stainless was NOT magnetic.....shows you what I know, or don't.

But it is in the gun, nice, new and shiny, and hopefully will give 30 yrs more good service!!!

Working on the Blackhawk was not taxing, but I found it challenging. New tasks often are. The pins and all the edges were tight, neither pin just pressed in or out. And in the Ruger reassembly, the guy just drops the hammer and trigger assemblies in place, and press fits the pin......didn't go that way for me. Having some experience in plumbing certain auto pistols helped, and I do believe most folks with some aptitude can handle it, but it was no cake walk either.

[Driftwood Johnson]

A metallurgist, which I am not, could fill us in on the details of that.

OK, I said I'm not a metallurgist. I got one little detail wrong.

I stand by everything else I said. Including that most of the Stainless revolvers I have do attract a magnet, and one Uberti does not.

When I used to be a draftsman, we never used the term Stainless Steel to identify the type of steel used in a part. Instead we used CRES, which stands for Corrosion Resistant Steel. Which all 'Stainless Steels' really are. Some alloys are more corrosion resistant than others. And some balance corrosion resistance with other desirable characteristics, such as toughness. It all depends on what characteristics the engineer wants the part to have.

[DPris]

The Uberti is aluminum.
Denis

[BobCat45]

Driftwood, it is a detail that most people don't know or bother with.

The 300-sieres stainless steels that most people know as stainless are not magnetic, and checking whether or not a piece of steel is magnetic is indeed a good way to sort, a good place to start.

Any steel with over (I think this is the right number) 12 or 13 percent chromium is considered "stainless" - but when you get to adding nickel, magnetic attraction drops off.

Before the 400-series stainless steels - low or no nickel, quench hardening - many pocket knives are 420 or 440 or derivatives - before they were common, if you were a scuba diver and bought a dive knife (I'm talking 1950s or early 60s), it was 300-series, soft, and would not hold an edge.

If you want to sort carbon or low-alloy steels from stainless, the quickest way (and I'm not suggesting it because it can damage or deface the carbon steel) is to put one drop of concentrated nitric acid on the surface for a few seconds. Stainless will not react, carbon or low-alloy (like 4130, 4140 and so on) will react, the spot will turn gray. Bad idea to try this on a finished part, it is better for sorting raw stock.

Sorry, off on a tangent.

bamaranger, glad the transfer bar is fixed!

[reddog81]

Originally Posted by bamaranger

Working on the Blackhawk was not taxing, but I found it challenging. New tasks often are. The pins and all the edges were tight, neither pin just pressed in or out. And in the Ruger reassembly, the guy just drops the hammer and trigger assemblies in place, and press fits the pin......didn't go that way for me. Having some experience in plumbing certain auto pistols helped, and I do believe most folks with some aptitude can handle it, but it was no cake walk either.

When watching those videos it can be a challenge to keep up with what is going on. this is especially true when it's your first time doing a dissasembly and the parts are fit very tight. It can be annoying to continuously have to pause and rewind the video, however I'd much rather have tight pins that are fit to exacting tolerances rather than loose pins that'll wiggle out over time.

[DPris]

Hell, I figured out how to disassemble my Single-Six in 1981 long before videos were invented.
Just git'r done!
Denis

[Driftwood Johnson]

however I'd much rather have tight pins that are fit to exacting tolerances rather than loose pins that'll wiggle out over time.

Rugers are not built with very exacting tolerances. Not from where I sat when I was a mechanical parts designer. The tolerances are loose enough to allow pats to fit together with a minimum of fitting. The guns can be assembled with parts right out of the parts bins by fairly low skilled assemblers. That was one of Ruger's keys to success. He drove cost out by making them easy to assemble without expensive hand fitting of parts.

The pins on any New Model Single Action Ruger will not wiggle out over time. They are locked in place. On this New Vaquero, the tip of the long grip screw marked A fits into the groove on the hammer pivot pin marked A, preventing the pin from working loose. The trigger/bolt pivot pin is trapped in place by the hook in the gate spring, marked B, snapping over the groove in the pin, marked B.

It took a while before I realized that the groove in the hammer pin can be located on either side of the frame, you just have to match up where the groove is with which side you put in the long grip screew.







Yes, I learned to disassemble a New Model Ruger Single Action back around 1975 when I bought my first Blackhawk. Videos on the internet did not exist yet. I simply learned the hard way, by taking it apart and putting it back together again over and over. I am not quite so brave today, I like to have all the assembly aides, including books, pictures, and videos, I can get.

To me, the hardest part about reassembling a Ruger New Model Single Action is getting the gate spring lined up and pressed in place in its groove in the pin. Yes, you can buy a tool from Brownells that compresses the spring as you pop it in place, but I learned the hard way that if you tighten down the tool too much, the spring can be bent and it is next to impossible to unbend it.

Also, I learned over time to keep the gate shut once it was in place. Opening the gate before everything is buttoned up can dislodge the slanted end of the gate spring from where it bears on the loading gate. Had to take my early ones apart again a bunch of times before I learned that lesson.

[Driftwood Johnson]

The Uberti is aluminum.

You had me going there for a moment until I noticed the smiley face.

[DPris]

Denis