When is an SBR an SBR?

thump_rrr · January 26, 2013, 05:01 PM

I'm in Canada where AR's are restricted firearms.
Since it is restricted it doesn't matter if the barrel is 7.5" or 24"

I'm looking at purchasing a 14.5" Noveske upper to go with my factory Noveske lower regardless of the wait times.

Can just an upper with a 14.5" barrel or simply a 14.5" barrel be purchased without a tax stamp.

I guess the question is when is it an SBR?
Is it when you buy the barrel or when you assemble it onto a lower?

As a side note I will be legally exporting it as per ITAR regulations.

Brian Pfleuger · January 26, 2013, 05:14 PM

Just to be clear, you're asking about Canadian laws here, correct?

thump_rrr · January 26, 2013, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Just to be clear, you're asking about Canadian laws here, correct?

No I'm asking if I can simply walk into a store and purchase a 14.5" or 7.5" barrel in the USA and walk out with it as I can in Canada.(if they were in stock).
Finding anything Noveske in Canada right now is like looking for hens teeth.

Brian Pfleuger · January 26, 2013, 05:41 PM

Oh, ok.

By Federal law, the upper is not the controlled part. However, if you own both a rifle lower and a short-barreled upper, you would be in "constructive possession" of a short-barreled rifle.

The actual legalities of a Canadian citizen buying it, I have no idea.

thump_rrr · January 26, 2013, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Oh, ok.

By Federal law, the upper is not the controlled part. However, if you own both a rifle lower and a short-barreled upper, you would be in "constructive possession" of a short-barreled rifle.

The actual legalities of a Canadian citizen buying it, I have no idea.

I am pretty sure about the legalities of a Canadian purchasing it or complete (non NFA) firearms in the USA.

See section V for the summary.
https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...2001r-332p#h-8

Quote:

Nonimmigrant aliens lawfully admitted to the United States without a visa, pursuant either to the Visa Waiver Program or other exemptions from visa requirements, will not be prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, or possessing firearms or ammunition, and the regulations will also no longer proscribe the sale or other disposition of firearms or ammunition to such nonimmigrant aliens.

Willie Sutton · January 26, 2013, 06:20 PM

^^^ Irrelevent.

It is not a firearm in the USA. it is an assembly of firearms parts. Anyone can buy it, even a convicted felon who happens to be under 18 and has been ajudicated a mental defective *and* is holding a passport from Afghanistan ......

Parts are Parts.

If it then legally is attachable to your AR up in Canada, great for you! We here in the wild west would need to fill out a form, send in $200, and wait eons to be able to do that. In the interim we better not be caught in posession of both the upper and a lower, which is the "firearm" part.

Best,

Willie

.

thump_rrr · January 26, 2013, 06:40 PM

Hey Willie,

It's not that we don't need to register it or wait eons for it up here because of barrel length.
We have to register it, wait eons, and have a permit to transport it, to a range just to shoot it because it's an AR regardless of barrel length.

Willie Sutton · January 26, 2013, 07:02 PM

^^^ I understand completely.

Your system looks at the lower and then could care less about the upper. Here we get lowers without fanfare and then need to license the installation of the short upper. But the actual parts are available for the price of buying them, it's the buyers responsiblity to not have "one from column A and one from column B" in the same place at the same time until the papers are filled out. You can buy all of the parts you like here without difficulty (other than finding them in the middle of the great gun-buying opanic of 2013".

Willie

.

Willie Lowman · January 26, 2013, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Finding anything Noveske anywhere right now is like looking for hens teeth.

Fixed it for you.

The trick is finding a 14" barrel that doesn't have a flash hider pinned in place. That is if you want to change your FH...

Good luck in your search!

Scorch · January 26, 2013, 08:06 PM

Exporting anything firearms related can turn into a nightmare pretty quickly, trust me.

thump_rrr · January 26, 2013, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Exporting anything firearms related can turn into a nightmare pretty quickly, trust me.

It's not that complicated.
Choose a factory that is on the DDTC list. Noveske is compliant.
Apply for import permit from Canada. I can usually fax it in and receive it the same day.
Fill out Department Of State form DSP-83 and wait 30-60 days for approval.
Department of Commerce for shotgun parts.

klyph3 · January 26, 2013, 08:42 PM

Yes you can purchase a barrel of any length, of any type without NFA taxation. No barrel is restricted by itself.

James K · January 26, 2013, 08:45 PM

As I understand U.S. export regulations, a barrel is a restricted part and requires an export license, and Canada requires an import license.

I would assume that while buying a restricted part in the U.S. would probably not be a problem, shipping or taking it into Canada without those licenses would be illegal.

If you have a copy of the Gun Parts Corp. catalog, they have a list of restricted parts and an explanation of their export policy under Ordering Instructions. They also have a web site address for further infomation:

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Foreign-Orders.htm

Jim

thump_rrr · January 26, 2013, 08:57 PM

Quote:

As I understand U.S. export regulations, a barrel is a reestricted part and requires an export license, and Canada requires an import license.

I would assume that while buying a restricted part in the U.S. would probably not be a problem, shipping or taking it into Canada without those licenses would be illegal.

If you have a copy of the Gun Parts Corp. catalog, they have a list of restricted parts and an explanation of their export policy under Ordering Instructions. The give a web site address for further infomation:

www.e-GunParts.com/foreign.asp

Jim

Actually Canada doesn't require an import license but will provide one since the USA requires one to provide an export license.

I live less than 30 minutes from the US border and travel there almost weekly.
I wouldn't do anything to jepordise my clean record.

tepin · January 30, 2013, 06:24 PM

Here in the US you can buy the short upper (over the internet) and attach it to a virgin lower, calling it a "pistol". If you want to slide the stock onto the buffer tube, you have to wait 6 months and pay 200.00

Really dumb.

January 26, 2013, 05:01 PM	#1
thump_rrr Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2010 Posts: 403	When is an SBR an SBR? I'm in Canada where AR's are restricted firearms. Since it is restricted it doesn't matter if the barrel is 7.5" or 24" I'm looking at purchasing a 14.5" Noveske upper to go with my factory Noveske lower regardless of the wait times. Can just an upper with a 14.5" barrel or simply a 14.5" barrel be purchased without a tax stamp. I guess the question is when is it an SBR? Is it when you buy the barrel or when you assemble it onto a lower? As a side note I will be legally exporting it as per ITAR regulations.

January 26, 2013, 05:14 PM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Just to be clear, you're asking about Canadian laws here, correct? __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

January 26, 2013, 05:41 PM	#4
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Oh, ok. By Federal law, the upper is not the controlled part. However, if you own both a rifle lower and a short-barreled upper, you would be in "constructive possession" of a short-barreled rifle. The actual legalities of a Canadian citizen buying it, I have no idea. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

January 26, 2013, 08:06 PM	#10
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Exporting anything firearms related can turn into a nightmare pretty quickly, trust me. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

January 26, 2013, 06:20 PM	#6
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	^^^ Irrelevent. It is not a firearm in the USA. it is an assembly of firearms parts. Anyone can buy it, even a convicted felon who happens to be under 18 and has been ajudicated a mental defective and is holding a passport from Afghanistan ...... Parts are Parts. If it then legally is attachable to your AR up in Canada, great for you! We here in the wild west would need to fill out a form, send in $200, and wait eons to be able to do that. In the interim we better not be caught in posession of both the upper and a lower, which is the "firearm" part. Best, Willie .

January 26, 2013, 06:40 PM	#7
thump_rrr Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2010 Posts: 403	Hey Willie, It's not that we don't need to register it or wait eons for it up here because of barrel length. We have to register it, wait eons, and have a permit to transport it, to a range just to shoot it because it's an AR regardless of barrel length.

January 26, 2013, 07:02 PM	#8
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	^^^ I understand completely. Your system looks at the lower and then could care less about the upper. Here we get lowers without fanfare and then need to license the installation of the short upper. But the actual parts are available for the price of buying them, it's the buyers responsiblity to not have "one from column A and one from column B" in the same place at the same time until the papers are filled out. You can buy all of the parts you like here without difficulty (other than finding them in the middle of the great gun-buying opanic of 2013". Willie .

January 26, 2013, 08:42 PM	#12
klyph3 Member Join Date: July 11, 2012 Posts: 59	Yes you can purchase a barrel of any length, of any type without NFA taxation. No barrel is restricted by itself.

January 26, 2013, 08:45 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	As I understand U.S. export regulations, a barrel is a restricted part and requires an export license, and Canada requires an import license. I would assume that while buying a restricted part in the U.S. would probably not be a problem, shipping or taking it into Canada without those licenses would be illegal. If you have a copy of the Gun Parts Corp. catalog, they have a list of restricted parts and an explanation of their export policy under Ordering Instructions. They also have a web site address for further infomation: http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Foreign-Orders.htm Jim

January 30, 2013, 06:24 PM	#15
tepin Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2006 Location: FL Posts: 129	Here in the US you can buy the short upper (over the internet) and attach it to a virgin lower, calling it a "pistol". If you want to slide the stock onto the buffer tube, you have to wait 6 months and pay 200.00 Really dumb.