Bullet from dropped gun hits woman in bathroom stall

PT111 · July 9, 2009, 04:44 PM

This is under Tactics and Training as evidently this lady was not trained well and was not using good tactics. Anyone know what kind of handgun she had?

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/jul...news-breaking/

Quote:

This wasn't your everyday way of getting shot, that's for sure.

A Tampa woman was shot in the leg this afternoon while sitting on the toilet in a hotel bathroom. Police said the woman in the next stall accidentally let her handgun slip out of her waist holster, and the weapon discharged when it hit the ground.

The bullet hit 53-year-old Janifer Bliss of Tampa in the lower left leg. She was taken to Tampa General Hospital with what police described as minor injuries.

The gun belonged to Debra Monce, 56, of Land O'Lakes. She has a concealed weapons permit for the small-caliber handgun, but the case has been referred to the State Attorney's Office for review.

The incident happened at the Clarion Hotel, 2701 E. Fowler Ave

Rich Miranda · July 9, 2009, 06:11 PM

Man, oh man, I will bet dollars to donuts that the gun did not go off as a result of "hitting the ground." Few guns will actually do this anyway.

My guess is that either it dropped and she tried to catch it, pulling the trigger by mistake OR she just neglected to follow the four rules.

But, I gotta say, getting shot on the john is newsworthy for sure.

Japle · July 9, 2009, 07:13 PM

They put that hook on the inside of the door for a reason.

I always hang my Glock on the hook and leave my BUG in my pocket.

csmsss · July 9, 2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

They put that hook on the inside of the door for a reason.

I can't think of a worse thing to do with a loaded firearm than to hang it by the trigger guard.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/odditie...f_in_bathroom/

I know of other examples where similar negligent discharges have happened - one in particular where a LEO put his 1911-format firearm on the hook in a bathroom stall, and unbeknownst to him the safety had disengaged. He wrapped his hand around the grip to remove the pistol, caught the trigger with the hook, and the gun then proceeded to discharge its entire magazine as the rebounding of the gun under recoil kept the trigger bouncing against the hook. Can't find the writeup, however.

cavymeister · July 9, 2009, 08:50 PM

Seat cover holder, Handicap handrails, or better yet, keep it in the holster... I don't have a holster that will allow any of my handguns to fall out. If for some reason, one were to, I have all confidence that if it hit the ground at less then 2 stories it wouldn't discharge so long as I don't touch it on the way down.

Deaf Smith · July 9, 2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

She has a concealed weapons permit for the small-caliber handgun

There is the hint. 'small-caliber handgun'.

It could be a striker fired .25/.22 that WILL fire if dropped. Or a NAA .22 derringer with a round under the hammer, or something like that. Who knows what kind of gun she packed.

In CHL classes I've always had a part of the class on bathroom decorum. And yes, part of it is how to take care of the weapon before you take care of business.

James K · July 9, 2009, 09:55 PM

Many handguns, not all of them small or small caliber, can fire if dropped. I knew a man who accidentally shot himself when an old type Ruger .44 Magnum slipped out of his holster when the got into his truck. The bullet went up through the inside of his thigh, fortunately not hitting bone, but he still walks with a limp. Had the bullet struck his pelvis it would have crippled him; had it struck further in, it would have killed him.

Jim

Japle · July 9, 2009, 10:14 PM

CSMSSS, you don't hang the gun on the hook, you hang the holster or holster & belt on the hook.

I wear a paddle holster. It takes 10 seconds to pull off the belt, slip the holster on and hang them up.

I'm sure some folks could screw this up. They shouldn't be armed.

csmsss · July 9, 2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

CSMSSS, you don't hang the gun on the hook, you hang the holster or holster & belt on the hook.

I wear a paddle holster. It takes 10 seconds to pull off the belt, slip the holster on and hang them up.

Understood, but your intention/context wasn't clear from your post. Problem is, plenty of folks don't carry in a holster, or don't have a holster where the firearm would hang in proper orientation if hung from a hook - like a yanqui holster, for example.

Quote:

I'm sure some folks could screw this up. They shouldn't be armed.

I would certainly agree with this.

djohn · July 9, 2009, 10:39 PM

I wouldn't doubt she is charged and a possiable lose of her CCW and or gun perhaps both. What a bummer for both parties.

Jason607 · July 11, 2009, 12:20 AM

Think of all the people carrying now and then take into prespection how rare these problems happen, but when they do happen, the media loves to blow it up as much as they can!

Humans are failable, so these things will happen, all we can do is reduce it as much as possible through education and training, and it doesn't take much to be safe. You should know how to carry and use your weapon, but it is also very important to know your weapon inside and out, and don't carry a weapon that can fire easily when dropped.

It doesn't say what kind of gun she carried. Although there are many well made guns out there that this would not happen, there are plenty of crappy guns in circulation.

Lost Sheep · July 12, 2009, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmsss

I know of other examples where similar negligent discharges have happened - one in particular where a LEO put his 1911-format firearm on the hook in a bathroom stall, and unbeknownst to him the safety had disengaged. He wrapped his hand around the grip to remove the pistol, caught the trigger with the hook, and the gun then proceeded to discharge its entire magazine as the rebounding of the gun under recoil kept the trigger bouncing against the hook. Can't find the writeup, however.

Do you know personally of this or is the story second hand?

I heard the same thing, but the story differed slightly. The Negligent Discharge happend in an armory upon placing the (loaded, against good procedure) gun on a post and it was a 1911 pattern gun WITHOUT a grip safety, which would have prevented this.

Not saying it couldn't happen; I'm sure it could. Not saying it didn't happen. I just wish I had place, time, name and references.

Lost Sheep.

csmsss · July 12, 2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Do you know personally of this or is the story second hand?

I heard the same thing, but the story differed slightly. The Negligent Discharge happend in an armory upon placing the (loaded, against good procedure) gun on a post and it was a 1911 pattern gun WITHOUT a grip safety, which would have prevented this.

Not saying it couldn't happen; I'm sure it could. Not saying it didn't happen. I just wish I had place, time, name and references.

Lost Sheep.

I'm quite certain I read about it in Guns & Ammo, American Handgunner, or similar magazine - but this was a goodly number of years ago. I do remember, however, that in this case the grip safety was present and functional - the police officer kept trying to grab the firearm and every time he caught hold of it, his motion pressed the gun forward into the bottom of the hook and it discharged the firearm. As I recall, the point of the article was that if he had simply done nothing, the accident would never have happened - but his reaching for the gun is what made it fire - repeatedly.

Mello2u · July 12, 2009, 10:21 AM

It sure would be nice if there were no guns out there that would fire if dropped. Second best is for the owners of those guns to know of that possibility so they can avoid that circumstance. I'd like to know the make and model of the gun that discharged when dropped so I don't buy one.

The only personal experience with a discharge from a dropped gun in my life was scary. My older brother dropped his Ruger .357 mag 3 screw between us. It went off. Don't know where the bullet went. I was standing to his right. He was right handed. He said he missed his holster on his right side. The gun discharged less than foot from me.

The 3 screw was a design prior to the transfer bar. The hammer's firing pin rested on the primer like the SAA Colts.

Throne Raider · July 12, 2009, 11:34 AM

I've found that the Weaver stance or bladed stance does not work well in the toilet, Unfortunately a Larry Craig wide stance works best.

I carry my Glock 27 in a paddle holster so that I can remove the entire apparatus and lower my pants without a thud (TMI, I know, but there is a point) This does not, however, "relieve" you of focus! Last winter I went into my teacher wife's school with her during a snow storm on a weekend. No one else around. She was working in her class when I felt a call. Went in the teacher's bathroom and removed my paddle holster. Didn't want to place it on the floor, looked around and found a place way up high on top of papertowel dispenser (flat).

After finishing nature's call, I noticed a blizzard had obscured the world outside the bathroom window. I lost focus! Don't lose focus if you carry a handgun! I rushed to my wife's room. POwer had gone out. I said, "We gotta get out of here now!"

We hurried outside and drove through drifts to get home, five miles away. My wife dropped me off at my horse barn so I could feed. She drove on home. As I was wading through snow to get to the house, I was struck by horror. No gun on my side! I'd left it on the paper towel dispenser----in a freaking school!!!!!!!!!! A capital crime in California!

In a panic I called my wife told her to get back in the 4X4 and meet me. I raced back through a blizzard to that school, half expecting a local unit to be out in front because some other teacher arrived, found my piece and panicked, called the cops. Small town cops ran my Glock, found it was registered to me, retired big city LEO, and I'd be going to the stockade out of spite!

Fortunately the WCS did not occur. Piece was safe and waiting for me on paper towel dispenser. But I learned a valuable lesson. You can learn from my mistake. Do not lose focus if you carry!

pax · July 13, 2009, 09:30 AM

Deleted a few high noise/low signal posts.

Keep it clean, guys.

pax

guns and more · July 13, 2009, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Bliss was attending a women's health conference at the Clarion Hotel

Well if that doesn't beat all.

mike45 · July 15, 2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Do you know personally of this or is the story second hand?

I heard the same thing, but the story differed slightly. The Negligent Discharge happend in an armory upon placing the (loaded, against good procedure) gun on a post and it was a 1911 pattern gun WITHOUT a grip safety, which would have prevented this.

Not saying it couldn't happen; I'm sure it could. Not saying it didn't happen. I just wish I had place, time, name and references.

I also remember reading about the police officers .45 accidential discharge. The article mentioned the officer had just finished a high risk search warrant as I recall.

I think it was about 20 years ago.

Mike

Housezealot · July 15, 2009, 11:34 AM

I once sat my piece on the sink while using the bathroom at my home, was washing my hands and knocked my pistol in to the toilet

accidents happen, jushed glad I had already flushed

July 9, 2009, 06:11 PM	#2
Rich Miranda Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2008 Location: San Antonio, not San Antone... Posts: 1,203	Man, oh man, I will bet dollars to donuts that the gun did not go off as a result of "hitting the ground." Few guns will actually do this anyway. My guess is that either it dropped and she tried to catch it, pulling the trigger by mistake OR she just neglected to follow the four rules. But, I gotta say, getting shot on the john is newsworthy for sure. __________________ Read this!: I collect .38 Special and .357 Mag cartridges and I will PAY CASH for the headstamps I don't already have! Please PM me. Please donate blood, plasma, and platelets - people's lives literally depend on it.

July 9, 2009, 10:39 PM	#10
djohn Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 507	I wouldn't doubt she is charged and a possiable lose of her CCW and or gun perhaps both. What a bummer for both parties. __________________ Dave.

July 12, 2009, 10:21 AM	#14
Mello2u Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,424	It sure would be nice if there were no guns out there that would fire if dropped. Second best is for the owners of those guns to know of that possibility so they can avoid that circumstance. I'd like to know the make and model of the gun that discharged when dropped so I don't buy one. The only personal experience with a discharge from a dropped gun in my life was scary. My older brother dropped his Ruger .357 mag 3 screw between us. It went off. Don't know where the bullet went. I was standing to his right. He was right handed. He said he missed his holster on his right side. The gun discharged less than foot from me. The 3 screw was a design prior to the transfer bar. The hammer's firing pin rested on the primer like the SAA Colts. __________________ NRA Life Member - Orange Gunsite Member - NRA Certified Pistol Instructor "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." Frederic Bastiat

July 13, 2009, 09:30 AM	#16
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	Deleted a few high noise/low signal posts. Keep it clean, guys. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

July 15, 2009, 11:34 AM	#19
Housezealot Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 606	I once sat my piece on the sink while using the bathroom at my home, was washing my hands and knocked my pistol in to the toilet accidents happen, jushed glad I had already flushed __________________ We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

July 9, 2009, 07:13 PM	#3
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	They put that hook on the inside of the door for a reason. I always hang my Glock on the hook and leave my BUG in my pocket.

July 9, 2009, 08:50 PM	#5
cavymeister Member Join Date: January 12, 2009 Posts: 28	Seat cover holder, Handicap handrails, or better yet, keep it in the holster... I don't have a holster that will allow any of my handguns to fall out. If for some reason, one were to, I have all confidence that if it hit the ground at less then 2 stories it wouldn't discharge so long as I don't touch it on the way down.

July 9, 2009, 09:55 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Many handguns, not all of them small or small caliber, can fire if dropped. I knew a man who accidentally shot himself when an old type Ruger .44 Magnum slipped out of his holster when the got into his truck. The bullet went up through the inside of his thigh, fortunately not hitting bone, but he still walks with a limp. Had the bullet struck his pelvis it would have crippled him; had it struck further in, it would have killed him. Jim

July 9, 2009, 10:14 PM	#8
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	CSMSSS, you don't hang the gun on the hook, you hang the holster or holster & belt on the hook. I wear a paddle holster. It takes 10 seconds to pull off the belt, slip the holster on and hang them up. I'm sure some folks could screw this up. They shouldn't be armed.

July 11, 2009, 12:20 AM	#11
Jason607 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2006 Posts: 138	Think of all the people carrying now and then take into prespection how rare these problems happen, but when they do happen, the media loves to blow it up as much as they can! Humans are failable, so these things will happen, all we can do is reduce it as much as possible through education and training, and it doesn't take much to be safe. You should know how to carry and use your weapon, but it is also very important to know your weapon inside and out, and don't carry a weapon that can fire easily when dropped. It doesn't say what kind of gun she carried. Although there are many well made guns out there that this would not happen, there are plenty of crappy guns in circulation.

July 12, 2009, 11:34 AM	#15
Throne Raider Junior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Location: Norte Califas Posts: 8	I've found that the Weaver stance or bladed stance does not work well in the toilet, Unfortunately a Larry Craig wide stance works best. I carry my Glock 27 in a paddle holster so that I can remove the entire apparatus and lower my pants without a thud (TMI, I know, but there is a point) This does not, however, "relieve" you of focus! Last winter I went into my teacher wife's school with her during a snow storm on a weekend. No one else around. She was working in her class when I felt a call. Went in the teacher's bathroom and removed my paddle holster. Didn't want to place it on the floor, looked around and found a place way up high on top of papertowel dispenser (flat). After finishing nature's call, I noticed a blizzard had obscured the world outside the bathroom window. I lost focus! Don't lose focus if you carry a handgun! I rushed to my wife's room. POwer had gone out. I said, "We gotta get out of here now!" We hurried outside and drove through drifts to get home, five miles away. My wife dropped me off at my horse barn so I could feed. She drove on home. As I was wading through snow to get to the house, I was struck by horror. No gun on my side! I'd left it on the paper towel dispenser----in a freaking school!!!!!!!!!! A capital crime in California! In a panic I called my wife told her to get back in the 4X4 and meet me. I raced back through a blizzard to that school, half expecting a local unit to be out in front because some other teacher arrived, found my piece and panicked, called the cops. Small town cops ran my Glock, found it was registered to me, retired big city LEO, and I'd be going to the stockade out of spite! Fortunately the WCS did not occur. Piece was safe and waiting for me on paper towel dispenser. But I learned a valuable lesson. You can learn from my mistake. Do not lose focus if you carry!