Anyone A Big Fan Of The .22 Magnum? - Page 3

natman · October 15, 2012, 01:22 PM

Quote:

natman, I believe the 22 WMR out of a rifle be close in energy to a 38 special out of a pistol.

1) The topic at hand is the 22 magnum as a PISTOL round, specifically out of revolvers.

2) It's blatantly unfair to compare rifle ballistics with pistol ballistics, unless you plan to carry a 22 magnum rifle concealed. Or for that matter to compare 22 mag ballistics out of a 6" barrel with a 4" 38 Special.

3) ENERGY IS NOT THE BE ALL AND END ALL BASIS OF COMPARISON SOME PEOPLE SEEM TO THINK IT IS.

Sorry for shouting, but I just made that same point just a few posts ago, apparently not clearly enough. If indeed the energy of a 38 special and a 22 mag out of a rifle were the same, the 38 would still be the better round by virtue of its far greater frontal area and superior sectional density. I know it's tempting to just compare energy figures because it's easy, but in the real world terminal ballistics is a lot more complicated than that.

coyota1 · October 15, 2012, 01:44 PM

natman, I realize this thread is about revolvers and it is not necessary to point this out to me or shout. I meant to clear up any confusion about ballistic similarity between the WMR and the 38 special. That's all.

jmortimer · October 15, 2012, 01:53 PM

Hornady out of a 1 7/8" barrel - pretty impressive
http://www.hornady.com/store/22-WMR-...tical-Defense/

rclark · October 15, 2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

A Big Fan Of The .22 Magnum?

My answer is .... no I am not. More like indifferent. I do have convertibles, but the .22Mag cylinders have rarely been used. I never did see the point really for general shooting which is 99% of what I do. Buy and expensive box of rounds, and then can't even reload the brass after you shoot 'em? Anyway, I've got gophers and such with the .22LR no problem. Need more I have the .357/.38, need more, I have the .44s and .45s .... But for punching paper, pinging steel plates, tin cans, pine cones, branches, golf balls, etc... nothing beats the good o' .22LR.

damienph · October 15, 2012, 04:42 PM

I am a fan of the 22 Magnum. I have a Ruger Single Six that I shoot almost exclusively with 22WMR ammunition. I have two other 22LR revolvers and two 22LR semi-autos that are more accurate than the single six with the 22LR cylinder in it but the SS is very accurate with the 22WMR cylinder in it.

I would like to have one of those old AMT 22WMR semi-autos (and one of the similar 30 Carbine ones, as well) if I could find one for a reasonable price.

FloridaVeteran · October 15, 2012, 10:08 PM

jmortimer - your link confirms the point I wanted to make - that ammo makers have recognized the desire for hotter carry-size-barrel ammo and have responded with impressive ammo. Kudos to them, especially since they didn't do it with and "green energy" subsidies.

Critical Defense beats Critical Failure every time. What do you want when the bad guys come Trick or Treating? Windmills, solar panels or dependable ammo?

TX_QtPi · October 15, 2012, 11:02 PM

I got an AMT .22 atuomag II not long ago, and I have to say I love it... Though my EDC is a .40 or a .357 I have used this as my BUG with winchester 50grain JHP. haven't had any issues with it. Only thing I can say as it is a Magnum round it is Super Loud and given mine is the 3/38 barrel it has a hell of a muzzle flash... over all fun gun that I would (and do ) trust with my life...

Chasesf1 · October 15, 2012, 11:04 PM

Natman, The .22 magnum out of my 3" Taurus tumbles in most cases at point blank range in ballistic gel. So its terminal ballistics are quite good. Ps I like the 38 special to. I am just more partial to my 22 mag because of my test at close range. You should embrace the caliber Sir., it will save you money

. I say this with the utmost respect by the way. I love defending the .22 wmr, and believe me I have had lots of practice because there are many opposed to the round.

natman · October 17, 2012, 01:30 PM

Let's make a realistic and fair comparison of the 22 Mag and the 38 Special when fired from a defensive handgun, specifically a snub nose revolver.

According to Hornady their fancy "Critical Defense" load achieves the following:

Test Barrel (1 7/8 V") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 1000 fps /100 ft-lbs

A 38 Special firing 125 grain +P ammo will get about 850 fps for 200 ft-lbs of energy.

The frontal area of a .223 bullet is .35 in^2.
The frontal area of a .357 bullet is .56 in^2, a 60% increase.

A 45 grain .224 bullet has a sectional density of .114
A 125 grain .357 bullet has a sectional density of .139, a substantial improvement.

A 125 grain bullet weighs almost three times (2.777) as much as a 45 grain bullet.

So a 38 special fires a bullet that weighs almost three times as much, has TWICE the energy and 60% more frontal area and better sectional density.

The fancy new 22 Magnum loads are better for SD than 22 MAG rifle loads, but mostly because they reduce flash and blast. They are not magical bullets that transform the 22 Mag into a good SD load. When you cut out the tumbling bullet nonsense, the unequal barrel length comparisons and the wishful thinking, they're just not up to the task.

It's a good thing that they allow more shots, because if you ever actually have to use one for real you're going to need them.

coyota1 · October 17, 2012, 07:39 PM

There is no doubt the 38 special is ballistically superior to the 22 mag. There are times when carrying a 22 mini is a superior idea for deep concealment. That's why I have one.

FloridaVeteran · October 18, 2012, 02:16 AM

"Let's make a realistic and fair comparison of the 22 Mag and the 38 Special when fired from a defensive handgun..."

To be fair, that intro should have been:

"Let's make a realistic and fair comparison of the 22 Mag and the 38 Special +P when fired from a defensive handgun..."

dorc-1 · October 18, 2012, 07:13 AM

That's like comparing the 38+P to a .45 colt. Result are what matter not how big your johnson peacemaker is. All 3 will do the job in the right hands.

L_Killkenny · October 18, 2012, 10:46 AM

Quote:

"Let's make a realistic and fair comparison of the 22 Mag and the 38 Special when fired from a defensive handgun..."

To be fair, that intro should have been:

"Let's make a realistic and fair comparison of the 22 Mag and the 38 Special +P when fired from a defensive handgun..."

Heck I'm all for comparing a good ol' .38sp 158 grain wadcutter load against the .22M. Anyone game? But it ain't gonna change a dang thing. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who thinks a .22M is anywhere close to any .38sp load is off their rocker. There's numbers on paper and then there is real life. And cost for cast .38sp ammo is only fractionally higher.

To be fair, it's really hard to compare things if your just talking SD against 2 legged vermin. People, even bad guys, have a self awareness and a vast range of emotions that really screw with things when we talk effectiveness. Those in themselves change the playing field in comparisons between any cartridges.

So if you really want to see how bad the .38 trounces all over the .22M just go out and chest shoot some medium game like big coon, coyotes, even deer(if legal) or hogs. Only then can you really see what the difference is between the 2 and it's substantial to say the least.

micromontenegro · October 18, 2012, 01:03 PM

Absolutely. Having been there and done that, I'll take the .22 WMRF over .38 Spl for javelina all day long.

But of course, I'd reverse that choice for two legged predators. Different scenarios.

natman · October 18, 2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

"Let's make a realistic and fair comparison of the 22 Mag and the 38 Special when fired from a defensive handgun..."

To be fair, that intro should have been:

"Let's make a realistic and fair comparison of the 22 Mag and the 38 Special +P when fired from a defensive handgun..."

I don't see why I shouldn't use the best ammo available in the chambering, but it's a nit fairly picked. So let's shop around a bit for standard pressure 38 Special loads:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=294

110 grain at 989fps from a 2" barrel for 238 ft-lbs

It's hard to find ballistics quoted expressly for a 2" barrel, but there are lots of standard pressure 38 special loads that are in the 250 ft-lb area and would still be over 200 even after the losses of a 2" barrel were factored in.

No matter how you slice it a 22 mag from a pistol is nowhere near as powerful as a 38 Special.

dorc-1 · October 18, 2012, 06:34 PM

Quote:

No matter how you slice it a 22 mag from a pistol is nowhere near as powerful as a 38 Special.

And a 38 Special is nowhere near as powerful as a 9mm or 40 s&w revolver. What to do

Chasesf1 · October 18, 2012, 10:24 PM

The 22 mag fmj in 40 gr tumbles in ballistic gell with my 3 " barrel. But carry what you are comfortable with, its all about shot placement anyway. I might cary my 38 for backup.

FloridaVeteran · October 19, 2012, 02:03 AM

Note that I wasn't claiming a 22Mag will match a .38Spl., just that the difference between the two narrows if your are talking about regular 38s and not +P's. And to my knowledge, there aren't any 25-30-round capacity .38s out there (the PMR will hold 30, but it is far easier to load multiple mags with 25 each). A PMR-30 with 25 rounds weighs right at 19 ounces - what does a .38 loaded with six rounds weigh?

artoo · October 19, 2012, 03:07 AM

I just like the .22WRM for fun shooting and for some field carry.

I got the bug for the cartridge when I bought a H&R revolver several decades ago and got to plink at long range with it.

I still own several H&R or NEF revolvers in .22WRM and take them to the range every couple of months.

bikerbill · October 19, 2012, 01:09 PM

I'm a big fan of the tiny terror ... I routinely carry my NAA Pug on dog-walking ventures in my peaceful neighborhood and am planning on gifting myself post-Christmas with a Smith 351PD ... it's an extremely useful round, accurate and hard-hitting ... I don't think I'd count on it as my primary weapon, but it's great for fending off the occasional skunk or rattler (don't see them much in my part of Texas, but I have seen them). My biggest ownership mistake was selling my Taurus .22WMR revolver some years ago to help finance the purchase of a gun I had to have at the time ...

coyota1 · October 19, 2012, 01:18 PM

The skunk thing hit close to home. I have a skunk lingering around at night occasionally, but If I am close enough to hit it with my mini mag, then I'm toast.

October 15, 2012, 04:42 PM	#55
damienph Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2011 Location: Kansas Posts: 319	22 magnum fan I am a fan of the 22 Magnum. I have a Ruger Single Six that I shoot almost exclusively with 22WMR ammunition. I have two other 22LR revolvers and two 22LR semi-autos that are more accurate than the single six with the 22LR cylinder in it but the SS is very accurate with the 22WMR cylinder in it. I would like to have one of those old AMT 22WMR semi-autos (and one of the similar 30 Carbine ones, as well) if I could find one for a reasonable price.

October 15, 2012, 11:02 PM	#57
TX_QtPi Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2011 Location: TX Posts: 101	I got an AMT .22 atuomag II not long ago, and I have to say I love it... Though my EDC is a .40 or a .357 I have used this as my BUG with winchester 50grain JHP. haven't had any issues with it. Only thing I can say as it is a Magnum round it is Super Loud and given mine is the 3/38 barrel it has a hell of a muzzle flash... over all fun gun that I would (and do ) trust with my life... __________________ "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."

October 15, 2012, 11:04 PM	#58
Chasesf1 Junior Member Join Date: October 7, 2012 Posts: 7	Natman, The .22 magnum out of my 3" Taurus tumbles in most cases at point blank range in ballistic gel. So its terminal ballistics are quite good. Ps I like the 38 special to. I am just more partial to my 22 mag because of my test at close range. You should embrace the caliber Sir., it will save you money. I say this with the utmost respect by the way. I love defending the .22 wmr, and believe me I have had lots of practice because there are many opposed to the round.

October 18, 2012, 07:13 AM	#62
dorc-1 Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2012 Posts: 106	That's like comparing the 38+P to a .45 colt. Result are what matter not how big your johnson peacemaker is. All 3 will do the job in the right hands. Last edited by dorc-1; October 18, 2012 at 07:18 AM.

October 18, 2012, 10:24 PM	#67
Chasesf1 Junior Member Join Date: October 7, 2012 Posts: 7	The 22 mag fmj in 40 gr tumbles in ballistic gell with my 3 " barrel. But carry what you are comfortable with, its all about shot placement anyway. I might cary my 38 for backup. Last edited by Chasesf1; October 18, 2012 at 10:29 PM.

October 15, 2012, 01:44 PM	#52
coyota1 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Location: West Michigan Posts: 663	natman, I realize this thread is about revolvers and it is not necessary to point this out to me or shout. I meant to clear up any confusion about ballistic similarity between the WMR and the 38 special. That's all.

October 15, 2012, 01:53 PM	#53
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	Hornady out of a 1 7/8" barrel - pretty impressive http://www.hornady.com/store/22-WMR-...tical-Defense/

October 15, 2012, 10:08 PM	#56
FloridaVeteran Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2012 Location: Central Florida Posts: 399	jmortimer - your link confirms the point I wanted to make - that ammo makers have recognized the desire for hotter carry-size-barrel ammo and have responded with impressive ammo. Kudos to them, especially since they didn't do it with and "green energy" subsidies. Critical Defense beats Critical Failure every time. What do you want when the bad guys come Trick or Treating? Windmills, solar panels or dependable ammo?

October 17, 2012, 01:30 PM	#59
natman Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2008 Posts: 2,607	Let's make a realistic and fair comparison of the 22 Mag and the 38 Special when fired from a defensive handgun, specifically a snub nose revolver. According to Hornady their fancy "Critical Defense" load achieves the following: Test Barrel (1 7/8 V") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs) Muzzle 1000 fps /100 ft-lbs A 38 Special firing 125 grain +P ammo will get about 850 fps for 200 ft-lbs of energy. The frontal area of a .223 bullet is .35 in^2. The frontal area of a .357 bullet is .56 in^2, a 60% increase. A 45 grain .224 bullet has a sectional density of .114 A 125 grain .357 bullet has a sectional density of .139, a substantial improvement. A 125 grain bullet weighs almost three times (2.777) as much as a 45 grain bullet. So a 38 special fires a bullet that weighs almost three times as much, has TWICE the energy and 60% more frontal area and better sectional density. The fancy new 22 Magnum loads are better for SD than 22 MAG rifle loads, but mostly because they reduce flash and blast. They are not magical bullets that transform the 22 Mag into a good SD load. When you cut out the tumbling bullet nonsense, the unequal barrel length comparisons and the wishful thinking, they're just not up to the task. It's a good thing that they allow more shots, because if you ever actually have to use one for real you're going to need them.

October 17, 2012, 07:39 PM	#60
coyota1 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Location: West Michigan Posts: 663	There is no doubt the 38 special is ballistically superior to the 22 mag. There are times when carrying a 22 mini is a superior idea for deep concealment. That's why I have one.

October 18, 2012, 02:16 AM	#61
FloridaVeteran Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2012 Location: Central Florida Posts: 399	"Let's make a realistic and fair comparison of the 22 Mag and the 38 Special when fired from a defensive handgun..." To be fair, that intro should have been: "Let's make a realistic and fair comparison of the 22 Mag and the 38 Special +P when fired from a defensive handgun..."

October 18, 2012, 01:03 PM	#64
micromontenegro Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2010 Posts: 647	Absolutely. Having been there and done that, I'll take the .22 WMRF over .38 Spl for javelina all day long. But of course, I'd reverse that choice for two legged predators. Different scenarios.

October 19, 2012, 02:03 AM	#68
FloridaVeteran Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2012 Location: Central Florida Posts: 399	Note that I wasn't claiming a 22Mag will match a .38Spl., just that the difference between the two narrows if your are talking about regular 38s and not +P's. And to my knowledge, there aren't any 25-30-round capacity .38s out there (the PMR will hold 30, but it is far easier to load multiple mags with 25 each). A PMR-30 with 25 rounds weighs right at 19 ounces - what does a .38 loaded with six rounds weigh?

October 19, 2012, 03:07 AM	#69
artoo Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2012 Posts: 155	I just like the .22WRM for fun shooting and for some field carry. I got the bug for the cartridge when I bought a H&R revolver several decades ago and got to plink at long range with it. I still own several H&R or NEF revolvers in .22WRM and take them to the range every couple of months. __________________ NRA Life Member

October 19, 2012, 01:09 PM	#70
bikerbill Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Location: Lago Vista TX Posts: 2,425	I'm a big fan of the tiny terror ... I routinely carry my NAA Pug on dog-walking ventures in my peaceful neighborhood and am planning on gifting myself post-Christmas with a Smith 351PD ... it's an extremely useful round, accurate and hard-hitting ... I don't think I'd count on it as my primary weapon, but it's great for fending off the occasional skunk or rattler (don't see them much in my part of Texas, but I have seen them). My biggest ownership mistake was selling my Taurus .22WMR revolver some years ago to help finance the purchase of a gun I had to have at the time ... __________________ "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." Albert Camus

October 19, 2012, 01:18 PM	#71
coyota1 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Location: West Michigan Posts: 663	The skunk thing hit close to home. I have a skunk lingering around at night occasionally, but If I am close enough to hit it with my mini mag, then I'm toast.