|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
September 12, 2018, 06:21 PM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 9, 2008
Location: GA
Posts: 1,149
|
In practical terms, I'd say .270 Win. It works, you can always find them (cheap), and they have totally acceptable recoil.
Me being me, I always like having something different once I feel it is proven----JUST BECAUSE it's interesting to me. I've long used the "German .30-06" aka full Euro spec 8mm Mauser at the ranges I realistically hunt at (300 yds or less). However, if you actually expect to take long shots often, the best 6.5 - 7mms are hard to beat. I've been studying 6.5 Creedmoor a lot lately. The muzzle energy isn't that impressive, but you don't shoot game at point blank range, right? Due to the extremely high ballistic coefficient, it still packs a big percentage of its muzzle energy at 400-500+ yds, much more than macho rounds such as .30-06 and flatter shooting to boot. Creedmoor was designed only very recently as a long distance target shooting round not long ago, but has been gaining popularity in hunting. Very interesting article here for Elk cartridges: https://www.fieldandstream.com/12-be...hunting#page-4
__________________
Mauser Werke, Schmidt-Rubin, Colt, Walther, HK, Weatherby, Sig Sauer, Browning, Ruger, Beretta, etc, etc....a few friends of mine Last edited by FairWarning; September 12, 2018 at 06:31 PM. |
September 12, 2018, 08:37 PM | #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 29, 2010
Location: Shoshoni Wyoming
Posts: 2,713
|
Oh I know all about them Nathan. I live with them all around me, and I stalk them all, every year. Mule Deer, Elk and Antelope as well as White Tail deer about 2 years every 3. I don't get White Tail tags about 1/3 of the time I apply.
But in the last 28 years I have not made a shot over 425 on any game animal, and I have not felt any need to. I have now killed 8 antelope with revolvers with issue iron sights. 4" and 6" barrels. None were hard to hit. One was at about 125 yards and all the rest were between 30 yards and 65 yards. Most hunters believe they know about hunting Antelope from reading articles in magazines, which are written to make the event seem far more difficult so it retains the glamor-game idea in the minds of the readers, but the real truth is that they are not all that hard to stalk. You need only remember that a man on his belly can hide behind very small brush, rocks and in shallow dry washes. If you are not afraid to get your belt-buckle dirty they are not all that hard to kill. I killed one with a rifle, (Ruger #1 in 9.3X74R) 7 years ago that was so close I blew hair off it's chest with my muzzle blast. Muzzle was about 16 inches from it when I fired. Now THAT one was a thrill! |
September 12, 2018, 09:02 PM | #28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 6,440
|
Antelope are curious little critters. My friend would bow hunt them using a big white cloth; he would hide behind a piece of sage brush and wave that big piece of white cloth - the antelopes would be curious enough to come close enough for a fast bow draw and shot.......
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa |
September 12, 2018, 09:32 PM | #29 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 8,242
|
Quote:
__________________
NRA Life Member Last edited by taylorce1; September 13, 2018 at 06:54 AM. |
||
September 12, 2018, 10:36 PM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,876
|
Any caliber aforementioned I'm good with. So long as the cartridge is accurate? It's a can do!__ "No if's and's or but's here"
|
September 13, 2018, 05:31 AM | #31 |
Member
Join Date: April 28, 2016
Posts: 77
|
I have not seen the .45-70 mention,why?
|
September 13, 2018, 11:21 AM | #32 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 2, 2017
Posts: 1,868
|
Quote:
Sorry but, IMO the mans statement is extremely well though out! |
|
September 13, 2018, 11:44 AM | #33 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 23, 2016
Location: West of the Atlantic
Posts: 418
|
Quote:
And why assert that I'm implying knowledge of deer is the same thing as intention to hunt? All the hunting academics out there are no substitute for field learning under the tutelage of experience. But yes, the statement made more sense once he elaborated. But at the point of my response it sounded like a condescending blow off.
__________________
Matthew "All men are ignorant. The topics of our ignorance may vary, but the nature of the world is that no man may know everything." ~ R Jordan |
|
September 13, 2018, 04:01 PM | #34 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 6,323
|
Quote:
You do have to admit that bullet with it’s 0.625 bc is an abnormal...it must be 2” long! Quote:
Last edited by Nathan; September 13, 2018 at 04:19 PM. |
||
September 13, 2018, 08:52 PM | #35 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 8,242
|
Quote:
__________________
NRA Life Member |
|
September 14, 2018, 06:07 AM | #36 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 20, 2016
Location: Upstate NY.
Posts: 901
|
Hey, I also overthink things like this, so you’re in good company.
If I had to use a short action round to hunt everything from antelope to elk at long ranges, I would choose the 270 WSM with a 150 grain bullet. Second choice would be the 300 WSM, which you already have. Now, If I added the requirements of staying under 20 lbs of recoil AND leaving the barrel between 2800-3100 fps AND using a standard rim size, I guess I would choose the 308 shooting a 150 grain TSX or Partition as fast as I could. Would have to be a tough bullet that could hold together and retain its weight so it would penetrate properly. There is a solution out there. Ps. People, we all know the 270 Win isn’t short action. So why recommend it when the OP clearly stated that as a foundational requirement?
__________________
In God we trust. |
September 14, 2018, 06:45 AM | #37 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 8,283
|
Quote:
Which tells me the short action criteria is not absolute.He said "preferred" Life is all about tradeoffs and compromises. Its also true that some rifles use the same receiver for long and short,they just block the mag. If "short bolt throw" is the reason...I might consider that a cartridge like the 270 easily fulfills the rest of my criteria with one small compromise. If bolt throw /follow upshot is the rationale... Well,imagine this.You are in the woods,opening day. In the distance,you hear "Boom" then silence. Likely story? Tag filled. You hear another....Boom,then 5 or 10 secomds,and "boom" again. Likely story? Finished him.Filled tag. You hear "Boom..boom...boom....boom..boom" Wow! All in 12 seconds! Rapid follow up shots. Likely story? Not good. Its nice to have a follow up available. But stroking a long action isn't the critical factor. Frankly,if short action is important,then compromise mag capacity for a WSM. If your animal is not down after three shots,does a fourth and fifth matter? The first one is your best opportunity. |
|
September 14, 2018, 06:59 AM | #38 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 14, 2018
Posts: 619
|
Re .270. It is not a short action but the better .270 WSM is. Great hunting round. I have one and a 300 WSM both are a pleasure to shoot compared to something like a 30-06.
|
September 14, 2018, 10:46 AM | #39 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 8,242
|
Quote:
I found six choices of bullets suitable for elk in the 6.5 CM with a starting velocity of 2825-3010 all were mono metal bullets except the 129 Accubond LR. If you can't get 2800 fps out of a 140 grain bullet in 7-08 you aren't trying very hard and the mono metal 120's are pushing 3000+ fps. .308 Win has 150 grain bullets at 2800+ fps with ease, and a 125-130 grain mono metals at 3125. The other thing was every single tipped mono metal bullet was designed to work at 1800 fps minimum for expansion, and that would put you at 500 yards for most at sea level. If hunting elk in MT due to elevation you'll be get at least another 100 yards of distance before you fall below the minimum impact speed for expansion with mono metal bullets easily getting all to a 500 yard range. You can get even get there with the .338 Federal according to Barnes Data with 160 grain TTSX bullets. You can also get to the 2790-2815 with 180 grain Nosler AB and 185 grain Barnes TTSX bullets according to load data. However, you are far limiting your options in bullets and substantially increasing recoil to get there with the .338 Fed.
__________________
NRA Life Member |
|
September 14, 2018, 11:02 AM | #40 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 8,283
|
Quote:
You can elk hunt with any bullet that makes you happy.I would tend to pick 150 or heavier for elk in 7mm. Then I go over to the Hogdon reloading site and look at the max load velocities. Looking at over 30 powders,one just touched 2800 with a 150 gr bullet IMO,with the 260 I acknowledged the 6.5 s could do it.But,if we return to Hogdon and look up the 6.5 CM with a 130 gr AccuBond (a reasonable elk bullet)not one max load exceeded,or reached,2700 fps For the 308,on another 308 for elk thread,general concensus is 165 to 180 gr bullets Wyosmith leans toward 180s. Going back to Hogdon,one max load slightly exceeds 2800 fps. As I said,I take advertised velocities with a grain of salt.I have a good chrono. In fact,I did not research before I made the post you take issue with. The research I just did to answer you,from Hogdon,satisfies me I was correct. And you may read your charts of advertised ballistics.I won't argue.No doubt they are printed someplace.They must be true Last edited by HiBC; September 14, 2018 at 11:21 AM. |
|
September 14, 2018, 12:49 PM | #41 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 8,242
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hornady load data 154 grain bullets. RL-17 2800 FPS H414 2800 FPS Nosler Data 150 grain Ramshot Hunter 2801 FPS RL-15 2802 FPS H414 2800 FPS RL-19 2862 FPS Quote:
Nosler Data 129 gr ABLR & 130 gr AB RL-15 2810 FPS max load, most accurate load tested! Varget 2812 FPS W748 2822 FPS Big Game 2839 FPS H4350 2865 FPS W760 2906 FPS H100V 2800 FPS Quote:
W748 2839 FPS BL-C(2) 2850 FPS CFE 223 2877 FPS Alliant Data PP 2000 MR 165 Speer TBBC 2830 FPS PP 2000 MR 165 Speer SPBT 2840 FPS PP 2000 MR 165 Federal Fusion 2910 FPS Hornady Data 165 grain PP 2000 MR 2863 Nosler Data 165 grain RL-15 2820 FPS Big Game 2910 FPS Varget 2820 FPS Swift Data 165 A-Frame RL-15 2815 FPS IMR 4064 2811 FPS IMR 4895 2810 FPS I find Hogdon's online resource good as well but not my only resource. Plus I really tend to like the bullet manufacturers data a bit better, since it is specific to the bullet I'm actually going to be shooting. However, I do have to rely on data from the powder manufacturer at times just because the bullet company may not have data on that powder yet. Just because I find data that says I can get there doesn't mean my rifle will allow me to, just like some factory ammunition is as fast as advertised and some isn't. A lot just depends on the rifle.
__________________
NRA Life Member Last edited by taylorce1; September 14, 2018 at 08:39 PM. |
|||||
October 8, 2018, 07:08 PM | #42 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2015
Location: Michigan
Posts: 311
|
270 for me too, hands down !!!!
|
October 9, 2018, 03:13 AM | #43 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 21, 2010
Location: az
Posts: 1,332
|
284 Win?
If you handload
__________________
"When there’s lead in the air, there’s hope in the heart”- Hunter’s Proverb "Feed me, or feed me to something. I just want to be part of the food chain." -Al Bundy |
October 9, 2018, 07:35 AM | #44 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 6,323
|
Thanks for all the feedback and help. I went with a 6.5x55 on a Ruger action. My second choice was 7-08....6.5 creed is also in the hunt.
On a positive note, my nieces just went through hunters’ safety and I maybe helping the family look for a suitable rifle....6.5 Creedmoor handloaded might be a great choice. So, the old school side of me says these rounds don’t make 1500 ft lbs at distance, but it seems like velocity is how bullet makers judge if the bullet will perform. These high bc rounds really carry! |
October 11, 2018, 05:06 PM | #45 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2015
Location: Michigan
Posts: 311
|
I am crushed, you mean the 270 did not make the cut it not even on the list, how could this happen ??
|
October 11, 2018, 07:25 PM | #46 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 23, 2016
Location: West of the Atlantic
Posts: 418
|
Quote:
Excellent choice!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
|
October 11, 2018, 11:15 PM | #47 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 7, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,246
|
7mm-08 AI. 280 Rem performance with less pressure, powder, and recoil. Meets all of the requirements but is a handloaders job. But even the standard 7mm-08 is plenty for what you are asking of it. Commercial velocity figures might not always quite meet your specs but can still certainly meet the need.
I’m fond of the various 308 based cartridges. They’ve proven themselves. I’d opt for a .260 Rem over the Creedmore. And the .308 Win is a great caliber too, but just needs a heavier bullet to achieve the same BC. I’m one who appreciates efficiency and so I’ve gravitated towards many short action cartridges, Ackley Improved, and high BC’s for sectional densities. You just get more for what you started with. .264” is a little bit small for large game like elk. Not to say it doesn’t or can’t work. Even the 6.5mm Grendel has been used for elk around 400 yds. |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|