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August 12, 2017, 10:15 AM | #201 |
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I wish I could remember if the discussions were so intense and even heated when a very similar occurrence happened with Ruger's then new SR9 back around 2008. I understand Ruger had not just been awarded a military contract and was not residing in many law enforcement holsters. I also understand that, unless I'm wrong, Ruger took the bull by the horns and issued an immediate recall and completely re-worked the trigger of the SR9, dropping the smooth trigger in favor of a tabbed, safety-trigger ala Glock. (Hmm, a surprise?). Since the SR9 has gone on to some success in the marketplace and is liked by many, Ruger seems to have handled their mistake with little lasting damage. Perhaps, we should wait to see how Sig handles this. (BTW, I have neither an SR9 or a P320.)
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August 12, 2017, 11:39 AM | #202 | |
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August 12, 2017, 12:27 PM | #203 |
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Fair enough. I suspect someone at Sig may be looking at an earlier than expected departure. How high up the ladder this occurs remains to be seen.
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August 12, 2017, 12:35 PM | #204 |
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It passed the industry standard testing.
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August 12, 2017, 12:57 PM | #205 |
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I think we're all aware of that. I think many of us have also decided that the standard test as it exists currently is lacking when a slight 30 degree cant turns a pistol from drop safe to consistently discharging.
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August 12, 2017, 01:47 PM | #206 | |
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It doesn't. Testing a pistol to verify that it meets an industry drop safety standard that doesn't insure the pistol is drop safe means that when you're done you still don't know if the pistol is drop safe. Industry standard testing is great, but the point of the testing isn't the testing itself. The goal is to insure that guns meet a reasonable safety standard. Speaking hypothetically, if a gun company (or anyone else, for that matter) knows that a particular design will pass industry standards but will still exhibit the behavior that the industry standards are designed to exclude, they have an obligation to make that known. As someone once said, "No matter how beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results." In other words, this whole situation is likely to not only result in a change to the P320 design, but also in a change to the industry drop testing standards. And both of those will be positive changes. The one thing that is true is that if SIG made a good faith effort to drop test their pistol to insure that it met industry standards, that (plus the way they handle this situation) will go a long way towards upholding their reputation. I include the words "good faith" because if they knew, or had good reason to believe, that the industry standard would not turn up safety problems that were likely to exist in the design, then their testing, even if it met industry standards, would be, in my opinion, inadequate and their behavior, reprehensible. What I mean by that is that if I design a gun and I know (or have good reason to believe) that the gun has a feature/flaw/defect/oddity that could result in serious injury or death and also know that it will pass industry standard testing then I would be remiss to ignore the feature/flaw/defect/oddity and merely test the gun to industry standards.
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August 12, 2017, 01:51 PM | #207 |
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Purely by coincidence, my next purchase was gonna be a P320C in 9mm, maybe in the next month or so. So what would you do? ..........
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August 12, 2017, 04:08 PM | #208 |
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I would wait until I could be sure that the pistols in the supply chain have the new trigger.
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August 12, 2017, 04:18 PM | #209 |
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Yea buying a new pistol to only send it back would kind of stink.
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August 12, 2017, 04:59 PM | #210 |
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I was going to get a P320 Compact soon too, then my buddy who owns a gunshop pointed out all these articles and issues on the 320 coming out. Unlike some of the other gunshops around here, he really knows his guns(maybe more than me!) and I trust his opinion. Looks like it saved me a headache.
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August 12, 2017, 05:02 PM | #211 | ||
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August 12, 2017, 06:10 PM | #212 |
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I agree stay away from the p320 till the new production hits the supply.
I mean if you buy one now you'll have to send it in for retro, much better to just wait till it comes out of the box fixed imo. |
August 12, 2017, 08:52 PM | #213 |
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I agree with all the comments above about waiting (thanks to all), but that raises other questions ...
Assuming I wait, how will I know I am receiving a firearm with the updated fire-control module? Do you think SIG will provide a serial-number lookup that allows anyone to verify that a given fire-control module was manufactured (or otherwise updated) with new low-mass components? I've had good experiences with Gunbroker.com, but, of course, we don't get to personally inspect the merchandise before we make transactions. In this case (again assuming SIG provides a means of verification), I suppose I'd have to request the S/N of the exact firearm I'd be receiving ahead of time, agreed? And what if SIG does not provide some sort of quick-check reference? What then? I mean, it's not as though I'm gonna conduct my own drop tests. Last edited by Brownstone322; August 12, 2017 at 09:04 PM. |
August 12, 2017, 09:00 PM | #214 |
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I imagine they'd be able provide a serial number range, similar to how they did when they had a recall on the MCX, P938, P238. This isn't their first recall rodeo.
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August 12, 2017, 09:14 PM | #215 | |
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(I'd imagine that's not exactly what they had in mind when they developed the modular architecture, but, hey, plug-and-play will actually be handy for this kinda thing.) |
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August 12, 2017, 09:35 PM | #216 |
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The fire control module is the serialized part. They can't just send you a new one.
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August 12, 2017, 09:43 PM | #217 |
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I'm fully aware of that; I just didn't think it all the way through. Ergo ... an exchange would constitute a new sale (and the exchanger could be any ol' body), so they'd instead have to update the existing fire-control module and send it back to you. But then let's think the rest through ...
Assuming all that's true, a simple date range isn't gonna work. These updates could go on for many months (probably years, like Takata airbags), so, as I wrote originally, they'll need a way for us to check individual serial numbers, because, with basic safety at issue, used items are just as important as new ones. Maybe they'll tell us this stuff Monday.
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August 12, 2017, 09:45 PM | #218 |
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They're going to require sending the pistol in. This has been mentioned in other articles on this.
And yea Monday is the key.
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August 12, 2017, 09:48 PM | #219 | ||
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Do this no matter if the gun is new or used, If it's not as advertised the time to send it back is before you do the paperwork. Quote:
If the gun can't be repaired they stamp a new gun with your old serial number. |
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August 12, 2017, 10:21 PM | #220 |
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The company can absolutely issue you a new serial numbered firearm if they can't fix the original. But I doubt SIG is going to do that in this case is my point.
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August 12, 2017, 10:24 PM | #221 |
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This makes perfectly good sense. But, again, I'm still gonna need a reference of some sort from SIG to know that this particular 320 (new or used) is on the "good" list. I'm hoping for a simple look-up interface on their web site (or somewhere we can get to).
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August 12, 2017, 10:32 PM | #222 |
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In the past, some companies put a mark on the frame when a gun had been fixed under a recall.
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August 13, 2017, 12:08 AM | #223 | |
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It turns out that Federal law allows a manufacturer to return a "replacement firearm of the same kind and type" to a non-licensed person [18 USC § 922(a)(2)(A)]. Unless and until I find out otherwise, I'm assuming that's what SIG is gonna do.
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August 13, 2017, 12:11 AM | #224 | |
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Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness |
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August 13, 2017, 12:27 AM | #225 |
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Information available at this time (which, of course, is subject to confirmation by SIG on Monday) is that the corrective repair requires machining of both the slide and the receiver. So they can't just mail every owner a new fire control module.
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