How I made my CVA Hunter "interesting"

Zeddediah · July 19, 2019, 12:07 PM

I've been a lurker here for sometime and decided to make my first entree here a review of the CVA Hunter. I chose the .45-70 based on a combination of shooting distance (less than 100 yards), variety of game from the obvious deer through, well whatever I felt I could shoot (in terms of recoil) down to making chip shots at squirrels (great practice).
A lot has been written questioning the strength of the break-open action. Considering one of the cartridges it is chambered for is the .35 Whelen with a max SAAMI pressure of 52000, it should have more than enough strength of the typical .45-70 lever action pressures of 40000 (per Hornady). Some have questioned the fact that the chamber and bore of the larger .45-70 would contribute a weakness. The CVA comes equipped with a Bergara barrel, a company with a reputation for well made hardware. And what a barrel it is. It is definitely a heavy weight barrel, somewhere between 3/16" and 1/4" thick. I see no indications this setup is weak.
That being said, however, my groups were down right horrible 6+ inches at 50 yards from anything I shot. The groups where stringing both vertically or horizontally. I figured the problem to be the front stock and after a couple hundred rounds I checked the fit with the tried and true slipping paper between the barrel and forearm and it did not slide very far at all. I removed the forearm and sure enough there was plastic marks on the barrel, especially on the left side. Using a dremel tool and the sanding bit I removed enough of the forearm to ensure free floating. The forearm is attached via pillars, I VERY VERY carefully removed ~ 1/32" off the pillars and used a simple o-ring between the pillar and barrel and screwed it back together.
The next day I shot 9 sets of 3 shots @ 50 yards. My largest group was .8" ctc, the smallest was an amazing .2" ctc, the average was .65"! I will be the first to admit these 50 yard groups did not translate to simply double sized groups at 100 yards, these averaged 1.8".
The load I used for this was a 350 gr. Laser Cast with a max load minus 5% of TrailBoss for a chronographed velocity of 1315 fps. I used the IMR formula for determining the max charge. I won't give my exact load here because the variation in seating depth, case capacity, etc. may be different than mine.
So, I am now extremely happy with this very low cost firearm and hope others may benefit from my experience.

big al hunter · July 20, 2019, 09:31 AM

Welcome to the forum. That is a pretty good improvement in group size, with minimal effort. I would not have thought about using rubber o-rings to isolate the barrel. I might have to try that on a few of my break actions.

Thanks for posting.

TruthTellers · July 20, 2019, 04:21 PM

I don't hear or see much on forums about CVA. I've been interested in them because prices for them used are low and most people go with Thompson Center for their single shots because they're more expensive and anything not more expensive than T/C is not good at all.

Didn't know CVA used Bergara barrels, that's a positive sign.

Keep us updated on this rifle over your time owning it. Like I said, CVA isn't talked about much, things like accuracy, build quality, customer service are complete unknowns.

big al hunter · July 20, 2019, 06:20 PM

Quote:

. I don't hear or see much on forums about CVA. I've been interested in them because prices for them used are low

I had a CVA muzzleloader over 20 years ago. Accuracy was between 1 and 2 MOA, depending on the load. I played with it at 300 yards one day. I could hit a clay pigeon every other shot, but it was a rare day. I ended up replacing it because I didn't like the location of the safety. It was a lever behind the trigger guard. When a friend borrowed it he had an accidental discharge due to the location of the safety and an absent mind. Luckily the only damage done was mental. Scared all 5 of us pretty good. I would try one of their rifles if it tickled my fancy.

Zeddediah · July 24, 2019, 11:43 PM

Following up....thanks for the welcome. Some things I like a LOT about this rifle: The trigger is absolutely fantastic, breaking crisply with virtually no follow through at just under 3# (granted, to light for some), it makes getting good shots easy. The recoil pad, relatively heavy mass of the barrel, and 'plastic' stock help to tame the...vigorous recoil of my self imposed max loads of 400 gr/2000 fps or 300 gr/2200 fps loads. (Frankly, my hunting load is the 350 gr lead flat nose bullet poking along at a mild 1315 fps). The design of the stock with its conservative cheek pieces and a drop designed for a scope are, for me, fitted well. And, of course there's the price. I can now afford a more expensive rifle (I fly fish with custom made split bamboo fly rods), but there is something about shooting such an inexpensive rifle that will (finally) shoot great groups from a round capable of taking anything on the planet, and yet can be loaded to mild levels that are not unrealistic for the game being shot. I've seen these on sale for well under $250! I would have preferred a New England firearms, but am now glad I 'had' to get the CVA Hunter. Some things I don't like, the stock does seem a little flimsy, especially the forearm. It can't be that hard for CVA to make the forearm in such a way to 'free float' the barrel as I had to do with a dremel. The method of screwing the forearm to the barrel frankly sucks. A little forethought and the correct machine screw and a couple heavy duty o-rings might add $2 to the cost (with a profit) and create a great platform for a good shooting inexpensive rifle. While the mass of the rifle does help with recoil and general shooting, it is very heavy, especially for a single shot. Incidentally, there is no safety on the gun. With the way the trigger works it doesn't need one as the trigger has to be pulled for the firing pin block to be released. hmmmm...I wonder if I can make a stock for this....yippee, a new project.

Woodsbum · July 26, 2019, 04:28 AM

I have a compact hunter in 243. The trigger is great,and it shoots moa or under with rem. Core locks.I got it because of the hilly land in my area.Because of the exploding bear population in my area ,I am considering a heavier cal.but the rifle is well made and accurate.Its a low cost good quality single shot .

ThomasT · July 27, 2019, 11:56 AM

Quote:

the...vigorous recoil of my self imposed max loads of 400 gr/2000 fps

That load exceeds all but a couple of the book loads for the Ruger number 1 single shot rifle. I would think its a little warm for a break open rifle.

FrankenMauser · July 28, 2019, 03:51 PM

Quote:

That load exceeds all but a couple of the book loads for the Ruger number 1 single shot rifle. I would think its a little warm for a break open rifle.

Yep.
I would expect loads like that to batter the action until it starts unlocking when fired, or cracks the frame at the hinge pin.

For example....
That's why H&R Handi-Rifles in .500 S&W were discontinued after only a couple years on the market. It wasn't that they didn't sell well (they did). It was because the actions were getting battered to the point of requiring repair - and, sometimes, being unrepairable. Heavy bullets. High pressure. Impressive velocities. But the action couldn't take it. It beat the hell out of them.
H&R fell back to the other big bores they offered, .444 Marlin and .45-70, as their shoulder-pounding hot sellers.

Zeddediah · August 7, 2019, 12:34 PM

Regarding 400 gr/2000 fps load...as previously stated, the SAAMI pressure for the identical rifle save chambered in the .35 Whelen is still significantly less than 52000. That being said, even a 400 gr load at a paltry 1800 fps is exceedingly uncomfortable. I have an H&R and comparing the robustness of the rifles does not do a disservice to the Bergara/CVA. Incidentally, the 500 S&W has a SAAMI of 60000 psi...Hodgdon currently lists its max loads at 2000+ fps, with IMR 4198 going past 2100 fps and still under 50000 psi. There are, to my knowledge, only 3 manufacturers of 400 grain copper jacketed bullets; Speer, Woodleigh, and Barnes, so it is not surprising you only have seen such a load in only a 'couple' books, those being Barnes and Speer. Vihtavuori and Alliant both give loads to 1900, Accurate powders avoids the issue by loading only to Marlin 1895 pressures, IMR (/Hogdon) gives loads to 2100+ fps. so that makes for four different loading manuals. From the latter two comments, it almost sounds like they are implying I am reckless and ill-advised...
aaaah...., I have seen this specie of thought, the deep and experienced ponderings of shooting illiterati casting aspersions at others. I suspect I could buy 10 CVA hunters and shoot 10000 full power loads as described, and having no unusual wear and tear, there would still be nay-sayers. This is why there are lurkers.

FrankenMauser · August 7, 2019, 01:01 PM

You spelled cognoscenti wrong.

ThomasT · August 7, 2019, 04:45 PM

Quote:

From the latter two comments, it almost sounds like they are implying I am reckless and ill-advised...
aaaah...., I have seen this specie of thought, the deep and experienced ponderings of shooting illiterati casting aspersions at others. I suspect I could buy 10 CVA hunters and shoot 10000 full power loads as described, and having no unusual wear and tear, there would still be nay-sayers. This is why there are lurkers.

You make a lot of wrong assumptions about people you know nothing about. Frankly I don't give a rats ass how you load your gun or what ever reasoning you use to justify your loads.

I have 2400 post and Frankenmauser has over 11,000 post. I think we are both way past the "lurker" stage. And welcome to the forum with your 3 post.

ThomasT · August 7, 2019, 05:40 PM

Quote:

I have seen this specie of thought, the deep and experienced ponderings of shooting illiterati casting aspersions at others.

Coming here and referring to others as "Illiterate" is not going to win you any friends or positive responses to your post. I have been loading, casting and shooting competition for close to 38 years now and consider myself pretty well versed in the subject. And I bet Franken has me beat with even longer experience. And yes I have loaded for the 45-70 before and killed deer with it.

Zeddediah · August 8, 2019, 05:57 PM

Wow...the 'lurkers' I was referencing was such as myself. Not you. I gave a rational albeit brief review of my experience over the last 3 years with this very inexpensive firearm. The firearm has quality and strength where it is needed and is clearly limited in quality (though not durability) where it is not. I have shot thousands of rounds through this gun, of which maybe 500 full power loads. The action is still very tight. I mic'd the pin as well as the action lock and there is 0 difference in the wear vs the adjacent non-wear areas. And I am still getting .65" 5-shot groups @ 50 yards with 350 gr lead bullets. This information is for those interested in a low-cost, accurate firearm for hunting. There is nothing mysterious about a 400 gr bullet going 2000+ fps. Comparing this round (<35,000 psi, per Speer) to a cartridge designed to shoot 60000 psi (the SAAMI for the S&W 500) is not a helpful comparison. Kinda ridiculous actually. As opposed to some, I have actual experience with this firearm and can attest it can easily handle such loads, even if I choose not to. If anything I have done is questionable, that would be fair to hear. Otherwise, I guess it will back to lurking for me, not being particularly interested in arguing.

Zeddediah · August 8, 2019, 06:02 PM

Ok, that was actually kinda funny.

ThomasT · August 8, 2019, 07:41 PM

If I miss understood you on the "lurking" part then my apologies. And if the loads are working for you and not straining the lock up then go for it. And I am not trying to argue. That just seems like a pretty stout load for a gun with a bottom locking lug.

Post some targets if you get the chance.

July 19, 2019, 12:07 PM	#1
Zeddediah Junior Member Join Date: July 17, 2019 Posts: 5	How I made my CVA Hunter "interesting" I've been a lurker here for sometime and decided to make my first entree here a review of the CVA Hunter. I chose the .45-70 based on a combination of shooting distance (less than 100 yards), variety of game from the obvious deer through, well whatever I felt I could shoot (in terms of recoil) down to making chip shots at squirrels (great practice). A lot has been written questioning the strength of the break-open action. Considering one of the cartridges it is chambered for is the .35 Whelen with a max SAAMI pressure of 52000, it should have more than enough strength of the typical .45-70 lever action pressures of 40000 (per Hornady). Some have questioned the fact that the chamber and bore of the larger .45-70 would contribute a weakness. The CVA comes equipped with a Bergara barrel, a company with a reputation for well made hardware. And what a barrel it is. It is definitely a heavy weight barrel, somewhere between 3/16" and 1/4" thick. I see no indications this setup is weak. That being said, however, my groups were down right horrible 6+ inches at 50 yards from anything I shot. The groups where stringing both vertically or horizontally. I figured the problem to be the front stock and after a couple hundred rounds I checked the fit with the tried and true slipping paper between the barrel and forearm and it did not slide very far at all. I removed the forearm and sure enough there was plastic marks on the barrel, especially on the left side. Using a dremel tool and the sanding bit I removed enough of the forearm to ensure free floating. The forearm is attached via pillars, I VERY VERY carefully removed ~ 1/32" off the pillars and used a simple o-ring between the pillar and barrel and screwed it back together. The next day I shot 9 sets of 3 shots @ 50 yards. My largest group was .8" ctc, the smallest was an amazing .2" ctc, the average was .65"! I will be the first to admit these 50 yard groups did not translate to simply double sized groups at 100 yards, these averaged 1.8". The load I used for this was a 350 gr. Laser Cast with a max load minus 5% of TrailBoss for a chronographed velocity of 1315 fps. I used the IMR formula for determining the max charge. I won't give my exact load here because the variation in seating depth, case capacity, etc. may be different than mine. So, I am now extremely happy with this very low cost firearm and hope others may benefit from my experience.

July 20, 2019, 09:31 AM	#2
big al hunter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2011 Location: Washington state Posts: 1,558	Welcome to the forum. That is a pretty good improvement in group size, with minimal effort. I would not have thought about using rubber o-rings to isolate the barrel. I might have to try that on a few of my break actions. Thanks for posting. __________________ You can't fix stupid....however ignorance can be cured through education!

July 20, 2019, 04:21 PM	#3
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	I don't hear or see much on forums about CVA. I've been interested in them because prices for them used are low and most people go with Thompson Center for their single shots because they're more expensive and anything not more expensive than T/C is not good at all. Didn't know CVA used Bergara barrels, that's a positive sign. Keep us updated on this rifle over your time owning it. Like I said, CVA isn't talked about much, things like accuracy, build quality, customer service are complete unknowns. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

August 7, 2019, 12:34 PM	#9
Zeddediah Junior Member Join Date: July 17, 2019 Posts: 5	Regarding 400 gr/2000 fps load...as previously stated, the SAAMI pressure for the identical rifle save chambered in the .35 Whelen is still significantly less than 52000. That being said, even a 400 gr load at a paltry 1800 fps is exceedingly uncomfortable. I have an H&R and comparing the robustness of the rifles does not do a disservice to the Bergara/CVA. Incidentally, the 500 S&W has a SAAMI of 60000 psi...Hodgdon currently lists its max loads at 2000+ fps, with IMR 4198 going past 2100 fps and still under 50000 psi. There are, to my knowledge, only 3 manufacturers of 400 grain copper jacketed bullets; Speer, Woodleigh, and Barnes, so it is not surprising you only have seen such a load in only a 'couple' books, those being Barnes and Speer. Vihtavuori and Alliant both give loads to 1900, Accurate powders avoids the issue by loading only to Marlin 1895 pressures, IMR (/Hogdon) gives loads to 2100+ fps. so that makes for four different loading manuals. From the latter two comments, it almost sounds like they are implying I am reckless and ill-advised... aaaah...., I have seen this specie of thought, the deep and experienced ponderings of shooting illiterati casting aspersions at others. I suspect I could buy 10 CVA hunters and shoot 10000 full power loads as described, and having no unusual wear and tear, there would still be nay-sayers. This is why there are lurkers. Last edited by Zeddediah; August 7, 2019 at 12:48 PM.

August 7, 2019, 01:01 PM	#10
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	You spelled cognoscenti wrong. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

July 24, 2019, 11:43 PM	#5
Zeddediah Junior Member Join Date: July 17, 2019 Posts: 5	Following up....thanks for the welcome. Some things I like a LOT about this rifle: The trigger is absolutely fantastic, breaking crisply with virtually no follow through at just under 3# (granted, to light for some), it makes getting good shots easy. The recoil pad, relatively heavy mass of the barrel, and 'plastic' stock help to tame the...vigorous recoil of my self imposed max loads of 400 gr/2000 fps or 300 gr/2200 fps loads. (Frankly, my hunting load is the 350 gr lead flat nose bullet poking along at a mild 1315 fps). The design of the stock with its conservative cheek pieces and a drop designed for a scope are, for me, fitted well. And, of course there's the price. I can now afford a more expensive rifle (I fly fish with custom made split bamboo fly rods), but there is something about shooting such an inexpensive rifle that will (finally) shoot great groups from a round capable of taking anything on the planet, and yet can be loaded to mild levels that are not unrealistic for the game being shot. I've seen these on sale for well under $250! I would have preferred a New England firearms, but am now glad I 'had' to get the CVA Hunter. Some things I don't like, the stock does seem a little flimsy, especially the forearm. It can't be that hard for CVA to make the forearm in such a way to 'free float' the barrel as I had to do with a dremel. The method of screwing the forearm to the barrel frankly sucks. A little forethought and the correct machine screw and a couple heavy duty o-rings might add $2 to the cost (with a profit) and create a great platform for a good shooting inexpensive rifle. While the mass of the rifle does help with recoil and general shooting, it is very heavy, especially for a single shot. Incidentally, there is no safety on the gun. With the way the trigger works it doesn't need one as the trigger has to be pulled for the firing pin block to be released. hmmmm...I wonder if I can make a stock for this....yippee, a new project.

July 26, 2019, 04:28 AM	#6
Woodsbum Member Join Date: January 28, 2018 Posts: 28	I have a compact hunter in 243. The trigger is great,and it shoots moa or under with rem. Core locks.I got it because of the hilly land in my area.Because of the exploding bear population in my area ,I am considering a heavier cal.but the rifle is well made and accurate.Its a low cost good quality single shot .

August 8, 2019, 05:57 PM	#13
Zeddediah Junior Member Join Date: July 17, 2019 Posts: 5	Wow...the 'lurkers' I was referencing was such as myself. Not you. I gave a rational albeit brief review of my experience over the last 3 years with this very inexpensive firearm. The firearm has quality and strength where it is needed and is clearly limited in quality (though not durability) where it is not. I have shot thousands of rounds through this gun, of which maybe 500 full power loads. The action is still very tight. I mic'd the pin as well as the action lock and there is 0 difference in the wear vs the adjacent non-wear areas. And I am still getting .65" 5-shot groups @ 50 yards with 350 gr lead bullets. This information is for those interested in a low-cost, accurate firearm for hunting. There is nothing mysterious about a 400 gr bullet going 2000+ fps. Comparing this round (<35,000 psi, per Speer) to a cartridge designed to shoot 60000 psi (the SAAMI for the S&W 500) is not a helpful comparison. Kinda ridiculous actually. As opposed to some, I have actual experience with this firearm and can attest it can easily handle such loads, even if I choose not to. If anything I have done is questionable, that would be fair to hear. Otherwise, I guess it will back to lurking for me, not being particularly interested in arguing.

August 8, 2019, 06:02 PM	#14
Zeddediah Junior Member Join Date: July 17, 2019 Posts: 5	Ok, that was actually kinda funny.

August 8, 2019, 07:41 PM	#15
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	If I miss understood you on the "lurking" part then my apologies. And if the loads are working for you and not straining the lock up then go for it. And I am not trying to argue. That just seems like a pretty stout load for a gun with a bottom locking lug. Post some targets if you get the chance.

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