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July 1, 2019, 04:38 PM | #1 |
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What's the reason for squared off trigger guards?
For generations all handguns that I can think of had and have rounded trigger guards. From single action revolvers, to double action to semis. Some time in the 1970's or so squared off trigger guards began to appear in European made pistols.
At the time I was told it was due to the European trend to place the index finger of the support hand on the front of the trigger guard. The grip had begun in combat shooting competition in the European games and traveled to law enforcement, so I was told. I was also told that police in some European countries liked to place the trigger guard up against barriers, like walls, or the shields that tend to be used there for crowd control SWAT actions, etc. At any rate it's become very common these days. Why haven't they disappeared? Any use to them other than getting hung up on a holster? Do they have a use? Why are they ubiquitous? tipoc
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July 1, 2019, 05:11 PM | #2 | |
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Watch some videos of the very quick shooters out there who are able to hold the gun completely still as they empty a magazine. Everyone of them will have their index finger wrapped around that guard. I've been trying to get better at this method myself but just don't have the grip strength. |
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July 1, 2019, 05:14 PM | #3 |
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Dont know about Europe, I first remember seeing them on souped up 1911's back in the early 70's, when that craze took off. That was often a modification you saw on worked over guns.
There was a time that was touted as a "technique", but I think they soon found it tended to loosen your grip, and it fell out of favor. |
July 1, 2019, 06:14 PM | #4 |
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Supposedly helped with a two handed grip in the 1970's , fast shooting sports , you were supposed to wrap fingers from the support hand around the squared off guard .
I shot a lot of one handed NRA Bullseye so I never paid much attention to that style of grip. In theory if you were gripping with two hands the squared of guard should be easier to hang onto . Gary |
July 1, 2019, 07:44 PM | #5 |
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It wasn't Europeans, but Americans....Armand Swenson.
http://www.coolgunsite.com/comm_pist...on/swenson.htm I believe Glock was the first European maker to incorporate a squared and checkered trigger guard, likely not because he knew why, but because he saw them on other US pistols and thought why not.
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July 1, 2019, 08:54 PM | #6 |
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Swenson was one custom gunsmith who did some of his guns that way. In looking at production guns. The squared off trigger, or recurved guard is much more common today than in the past.
Compare Sigs of today with those of the past... https://www.sigsauer.com/products/firearms/pistols/ In the past they were all basically curved. S&W did a few of it's third gen semis this was but most were curved. tipoc
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July 2, 2019, 12:34 PM | #7 |
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The number of people using it for a grip seems pretty small these days, and I don't recall it ever being extremely popular. I have heard LEOs talk about being trained to use it in a barrier situation. For those reasons, I give more credence to the latter than the former, but it has become so ubiquitous I have no idea.
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July 2, 2019, 12:59 PM | #8 |
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Nothing to do with Europe. It was the assorted game players. Everything has been tried by them to try and get a slightly better score.
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July 2, 2019, 07:07 PM | #9 |
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My wife's Glock G22 has the finger support front trigger guard. I don't use it , tried it and it feels all wrong to me.
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July 2, 2019, 09:37 PM | #10 |
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Squared trigger guards had nothing to do with barrier shooting.
The guard was for your off-hand index finger. |
July 3, 2019, 01:21 AM | #11 |
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I have really large hands (palming a basketball is easy) so hooking my finger on the trigger guard is the most effective grip for me. I note that some of the best competitors in the world do the same, like Eric Graufel.
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July 3, 2019, 09:50 AM | #12 |
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Col Cooper discouraged the use of the trigger guard as a grip aid. The 1911 was obviously his favored handgun which normally had curved trigger guards. On weapons with squared guards, I don't see any reason to not try it out.
Some of the old gurus, Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton, mentioned handguns where the owner removed the trigger guard or maybe just the front. I think maybe only revolvers. I'm not sure of the main reason for this as I would think an unprotected trigger might catch on stuff. |
July 3, 2019, 10:26 AM | #13 | |
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His modifications on guns, revolvers and semis, became famous and to a certain extent popular. He bobbed hammers, shortened barrels and cut away trigger guards or modified them, to make it easier for large hands or fingers to reach the trigger more quickly. His guns were often modified for concealed carry. His work was and still is influential. Here's a bit about him and his guns... https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...-fitz-special/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M91tTJkyMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5naPpxF8ws https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...om-yesteryear/ tipoc
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1. All guns are always loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot. 4. Identify your target and know what is beyond it. Last edited by tipoc; July 3, 2019 at 10:36 AM. |
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July 3, 2019, 10:35 AM | #14 |
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The Texas Ranger museum has a bunch of display guns with the trigger guards removed.
Made em faster, dont ya know |
July 3, 2019, 01:41 PM | #15 |
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The squared front trigger guards were very "in" when I shot IPSC 1979-1981. I have seen pictures of Charlie Askins' Colt New Service with the "Fitz" cutaway trigger guard, the noted Texas Ranger M. T. Gonzaulas had an M1911 with a cutaway trigger guard. Bill Jordan have very long fingers but he disapproved of the cutaway trigger guard, as did Ed McGivern.
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July 3, 2019, 03:00 PM | #16 | |
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Quote:
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July 4, 2019, 12:02 PM | #17 | |
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It's still a European thing, having only been something of a fad in the U.S., 30 years ago. Multiple world champ Eric Grauffel uses the finger-forward grip, so it can be a winning technique.
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July 4, 2019, 03:11 PM | #18 |
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Somebody probably came up with the original idea and has been overlooked by history.
Paris Theodore designed the first ASP 9 with a uniquely up-swept curved & hooked trigger guard in the later 60's, and then apparently tried for a couple of patent filings in '71 & '73, getting one in early '74. https://news.guns.com/wp-content/upl...sp9_patent.jpg Then, HK introduced their P7 in '76 with a hooked trigger guard. S&W produced their version of a hooked trigger guard with their 2nd and 3 generation series of their traditional double action pistols. The rounded trigger guard returned during the 90's. Many Euro pistols still use the squared off trigger guard with some degree of a bottom hook on pistols. I've seen more "average" shooters (both LE and non-LE) create problems for themselves than not, incorporating using the hooked guard for their support hand index finger. No small amount of unintentional pulling or pushing the front of the pistol to one side or the other. I've usually left alone the long time shooters I've seen who could manage the use of a hooked trigger guard without it affecting their controllability and accuracy. As long as they still had a solid master hand grip for 1-handed shooting ... meaning they'd not modified or compromised their master hand's grip to accommodate their support hand positioning ... why "fix" what wasn't broken? Having used pistols with hooked trigger guards for many years, I prefer not to rely upon them. I think only my couple of Glocks and my early Ruger KP-90DC have them (and the Ruger's is only a very slight hook at the bottom of the angled trigger guard). Back when I was carrying either an issued 59XX or 6906 from the early 3rd gen production I had to order holsters made for the square trigger guards. I could carry my later production 3rd gen's with round trigger guard models in them, but not vice versa.
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July 4, 2019, 05:46 PM | #19 |
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You know I think it was to keep those darn Automatics from looking to darn sexy
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July 5, 2019, 02:48 PM | #20 |
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I hate 'em!
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July 6, 2019, 05:00 PM | #21 | |
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there is another point not mentioned. The squared off trigger guard give a (relatively) sharp "point" when the pistol is used as an impact weapon. It's almost never talked about (outside of specialist discussions) because we all feel it shouldn't need to happen (because we should shoot and stop the attacker) but real world gunfighting still sometimes does include using the gun to hit someone, not just the bullets. its a last ditch, desperation thing, usually, but it can still happen. So, its a feature some people think they need and use, and others don't, and don't use, and it has a feature no one wants to need to use. personally, I don't use it, have tried, simply not for me. I have a couple of Sigs with it, I just ignore it, and, as far as I can tell, my shooting hasn't suffered because of that.
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July 8, 2019, 08:12 AM | #22 |
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"What's the reason for squared off trigger guards?"
To make pistols uglier? Most likely to follow a fad that has now pretty much faded into obscurity. |
July 8, 2019, 09:33 AM | #23 |
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I shoot a lot of USPSA , Steel Challenge etc. I never use a index finger on the
front of the trigger guard. There ARE some very good shooters that do. Jerry Miculek, Eric Grauffel and Angus Hobdell come to mind. However---in GSSF matches I do. Only on my G36 and G43. Gets my support hand just a bit higher on the gun, and my accuracy and shot-to-shot splits are measurably faster. I use a standard thumbs forward grip on the G17, G26 and G21. |
July 8, 2019, 11:06 AM | #24 |
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I also see people shooting Glocks with their elbows locked, when I can't even hold most of my pistols with locked elbows; I think it must be the Glock grip angle?
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July 8, 2019, 11:59 AM | #25 |
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I have a S&W 4566 in 45ACP it's built like a tank and shoots anything I feed it 100% . It has a square trigger guard , never bothered me and I hold it like any other . Finding a perfect holster could be a problem .
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