If you had to shoot through a windshield from inside car--recommendations?

MikeGoob · August 19, 2020, 10:14 AM

Just a lot of thoughts these days about having to leave an area where I am staying, and how perhaps, my way would be blocked by possibly armed people. Would you want a pistol caliber carbine? SBR? Is a high cap handgun just fine?

I know many say a car is a fine equalizer against people on foot, and sure it can be. My cars are all low to the ground city cars, so theres that.

Anyway, I keep rolling around in my head what would be the most ideal tool to have handy in case the time comes to get out of dodge quickly via car, through the streets. Thanks

BarryLee · August 19, 2020, 10:21 AM

I suspect a handgun would be best because you have to be able to carry the gun with you and maneuver with it in the car. I guess you could see what caliber Las Vegas Police use since they did OK on this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXoIhCJDcgg

hagar · August 19, 2020, 10:30 AM

Remington Golden Saber bonded. It's a law enforcement round only, but not illegal to own. Don't forget your sunroof, makes for a great steady platform standing on the seat..

RGRacing · August 19, 2020, 11:21 AM

357 Sig

Don Fischer · August 19, 2020, 12:47 PM

Absolute best defense against that is to simply stay out of an area you might need to do that is. Pay attention to where your at and if it might be possible to get around you, recognize it and stay out. Lot of people feel they must go through the area or they have a right to and will exercise that right. Good way to set up the situation! stay out. If I was to go to an area like that I'd leave my 8rd gun on the seat next to me and my high capacity gun in my hand. I pretty much doubt I'd risk a shot through the windshield. That I would think would send bit's of broken glass all over inside the car. Be hard to fight back with a bit of glass in your eye! Get's to the point where I'd have to shoot through glass I'd wait for the bad guy's to break it for me. I don't think a windshield broken from the outside with some object other than a bullet will send glass bit's flying like a bullet fired from inside. Then with the glass gone,firing through an open window is no sweat. Of course if you see your window is going to be shot out, nothing to lose fire away. Bottom line, recognize the situation and detour around it! I think it was Morgan Freeman said in the movie "Robin Hood", "live to fight another day"!

HiBC · August 19, 2020, 01:13 PM

We all have opinions. I'll agree,avoid the trouble is the best plan.

In John Plaster's book....was it "The Ultimate Sniper" ? I forget. He discussed shooting through glass. The angle of the glass determines deflection. The results may be counter intuitive. Shooting from inside a car out through a sloped windshield,the bullets would tend to deflect up. Of course,other angles would also have an influence.
The bullet is not engaging the sloped surface so much as it deals with the edge as it passes through.
While windshield safety glass tends to close back up,consider the first shot gets the glass out of the way,and follow up shots may be more effective.

As far s having a handgun on the seat next to you...That was one of the major lessons learned in the FBI bank robbery shoot out.

In any extreme driving or collision,that loaded handgun will not stay on the seat. You will have to find where it flew to . In your holster,it will be wherever you are.

tango1niner · August 19, 2020, 01:25 PM

If I might have to fire from inside the vehicle I most definitely want hearing protection.
Let's just say corded ear plugs dangling from around my neck. JIC...

Rangerrich99 · August 19, 2020, 01:46 PM

From a purely physical standpoint, I'd imagine you'd see less deflection with a relatively short, heavy bullet. Maybe something shaped like a semi wad-cutter? I would think that .40 S&W 180 grain would fit the bill fairly well. Or .44 mag. Or 10 mm with a truncated nose. Something along those lines, I'm guessing.

Of course, firing a gun inside a small enclosed space like a car would probably do permanent damage to a person's ears, so I wouldn't recommend it.

SaltyPirate · August 19, 2020, 01:49 PM

This is an easy one.

Underwood Extreme Penetrator.

Empirical: I own a bunch.

Just look it up. There's no second guessing.

HiBC · August 19, 2020, 02:13 PM

I copied this link from a FrankenMauser post.

It includes high speed vid of an artillery round (IIRC,a 105 mm) being deflected seriously by a watermelon. ( correction! Its a 152 mm)

I ,myself,would not put a lot of brain damage into speculating which bullet will not be deflected.

Maybe a police dept sniper could justify conducting a series of tests on angles and deflections,or maybe its already been done and data is available.

https://youtu.be/xpJ8EoGmLuE?t=365

FITASC · August 19, 2020, 02:21 PM

I can't imagine a scenario where I would risk a ricochet back to me, completely making me deaf and breaching the strength of a defensive barrier to get out of a situation as opposed to using the D or R on my transmission.

Shadow9mm · August 19, 2020, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hagar

Remington Golden Saber bonded. It's a law enforcement round only, but not illegal to own. Don't forget your sunroof, makes for a great steady platform standing on the seat..

no its not

Shadow9mm · August 19, 2020, 06:51 PM

God forbid you had to shoot from inside a car, crack a window if you can to let some of the sound out. regardless your going to be deaf for a bit, but there should be less damage.

TXAZ · August 19, 2020, 07:02 PM

Your ears will never be the same if you do.
If you maintain situational awareness, you'll never be in that position.

**44 AMP** · August 19, 2020, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Anyway, I keep rolling around in my head what would be the most ideal tool to have handy in case the time comes to get out of dodge quickly via car, through the streets.

Via car? the best tool is the car you're driving.. and the "trigger" you need to operate is the pedal on the right...

If you need to fire from inside the car, the handgun is the most optimal choice, and the only practical one if you are driving is something you can operate with one hand.

vito · August 20, 2020, 09:02 AM

IT seems that the only reason you would have to fire through the windshield is when the threat is immediately in front of your vehicle. Ducking down and stepping on the accelerator might be better than any round through the glass windshield. Plus it puts the engine as a barrier between you and the threat.

Mike38 · August 20, 2020, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Shooting from inside a car out through a sloped windshield,the bullets would tend to deflect up.

I admit, I know little about ballistics, enough to get by, but that's it. How can a bullet hitting the windshield that is angling "down and away" cause a bullet to go up?

From the standpoint of a layman, shooting through a windshield from the inside would cause the bullet to deflect down slightly. Shooting through a windshield from the outside would cause a bullet to deflect up slightly. Or am I wrong?

**44 AMP** · August 20, 2020, 02:06 PM

if the bullet doesn't penetrate the glass the angle would deflect it down, fired from inside and up from outside.

But consider this, when the bullet does penetrate, its going through this / kind of angle of barrier. Because of the angle one side of the bullet is still in contact with the barrier as it passes through when it leaves contact with the other side.

In other words, fired this way /<-- the top of the bullet gets through the glass while the bottom side is still in contact, and this tends to deflect the bullet up.

going the other way, tis just the opposite and the bullet tends do deflect down.

jmr40 · August 22, 2020, 06:31 AM

Don't overthink it. Sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do and with the gun you have. Most anything will go through glass.

Interesting video from Las Vegas a while back where a murder suspect is being chased. The SUV passenger is firing at the officer who effectively returns fire through the windshield eventually stopping the vehicle.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...CF&FORM=VDQVAP

Sharkbite · August 22, 2020, 10:04 AM

Yep, up going out, down going in. Shooting into a vehicle the deflection is not really big enough to worry about. Nor is it big enough shooting out, if the tgt is right at the front of the hood. Maybe 2-3” MAX

At that distance, hold the sights center and shoot as normal. If the tgt is at 10yards off the hood, now you can have a deflection issue.

The solution is MULTIPLE rounds, trying to shoot through the same hole. The first cpl will open a hole in the laminated glass and subsequent rounds will pass thru with little/no deflection.

TXAZ · August 22, 2020, 10:52 AM

Here's an actual training video with more definitive results:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS9918S5pHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS9918S5pHw

**44 AMP** · August 22, 2020, 12:25 PM

I've always wondered why police cars don't have windshields that open, or have a port in them for firing through....probably a "public image" thing.

Personally, as a private citizen, I can't imagine any situation where I would need to shoot through the windshield from inside, unless my car was immobile.

Quote:

Most anything will go through glass.

Most, yes. Everything? not so much. There was a test done back in the 70s, shooting 1950s vintage cars as targets (before laminated "safety" glass existed). The then standard 200gr LRN "police load" .38 Special, fired from a 2" Detective Special (and at point blank) would not penetrate the windshield. The same ammo, fired from a 4" service revolver, would.

If you're shooting a snub nose, and light loads to "tame" the recoil, you just might have penetration issues if you need to shoot through some barrier material, even glass.

ms6852 · August 22, 2020, 02:47 PM

Windshields are expensive to replace, I'm in a car I am not shooting, you have a vehicles that weighs a couple of thousand pounds , I know I can move a 300 pound individual or a group of people out of the way if it came to that. I'd rather spend 10 bucks at the car wash cleaning up what ever mess was left on the tires, and bumper.

Mike38 · August 23, 2020, 12:33 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS99...?v=BS9918S5pHw

That video says it best. You really can't say with 100% certainty what's going to happen when shooting through auto glass. Slope up, slope down, curve left, curve right. What he said towards the end is the answer. "Keep shooting until the threat has been eliminated."

The average person doesn't have time to stop and think about where the bullet is going to get deflected. Keep that trigger moving until the threat is over. If your car is still mobile, use it, get the hell out of there.

Ingramite · August 23, 2020, 04:03 PM

I would look at the scenario from a different point of view.

That point of view would be defending or even explaining to a LEO why I thought firing through a windshield from the safety of my own car would be justifiable.

I suppose about the only case I can see where it would be justifiable would be if a pedestrian was pointing a weapon at you and there was no possible escape route. Just know that no matter what you do there will be EXTREME backlash and fallout. You will be tried in the media and convicted by round heeled politicians.

August 19, 2020, 10:14 AM	#1
MikeGoob Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Posts: 876	If you had to shoot through a windshield from inside car--recommendations? Just a lot of thoughts these days about having to leave an area where I am staying, and how perhaps, my way would be blocked by possibly armed people. Would you want a pistol caliber carbine? SBR? Is a high cap handgun just fine? I know many say a car is a fine equalizer against people on foot, and sure it can be. My cars are all low to the ground city cars, so theres that. Anyway, I keep rolling around in my head what would be the most ideal tool to have handy in case the time comes to get out of dodge quickly via car, through the streets. Thanks

August 19, 2020, 10:21 AM	#2
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	I suspect a handgun would be best because you have to be able to carry the gun with you and maneuver with it in the car. I guess you could see what caliber Las Vegas Police use since they did OK on this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXoIhCJDcgg __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

August 19, 2020, 10:30 AM	#3
hagar Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2000 Location: Colombia, SC Posts: 745	Remington Golden Saber bonded. It's a law enforcement round only, but not illegal to own. Don't forget your sunroof, makes for a great steady platform standing on the seat.. __________________ I don't have time for busy people

August 19, 2020, 11:21 AM	#4
RGRacing Member Join Date: September 27, 2017 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 50	357 Sig __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

August 19, 2020, 01:13 PM	#6
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	We all have opinions. I'll agree,avoid the trouble is the best plan. In John Plaster's book....was it "The Ultimate Sniper" ? I forget. He discussed shooting through glass. The angle of the glass determines deflection. The results may be counter intuitive. Shooting from inside a car out through a sloped windshield,the bullets would tend to deflect up. Of course,other angles would also have an influence. The bullet is not engaging the sloped surface so much as it deals with the edge as it passes through. While windshield safety glass tends to close back up,consider the first shot gets the glass out of the way,and follow up shots may be more effective. As far s having a handgun on the seat next to you...That was one of the major lessons learned in the FBI bank robbery shoot out. In any extreme driving or collision,that loaded handgun will not stay on the seat. You will have to find where it flew to . In your holster,it will be wherever you are. Last edited by HiBC; August 19, 2020 at 01:18 PM.

August 19, 2020, 12:47 PM	#5
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	Absolute best defense against that is to simply stay out of an area you might need to do that is. Pay attention to where your at and if it might be possible to get around you, recognize it and stay out. Lot of people feel they must go through the area or they have a right to and will exercise that right. Good way to set up the situation! stay out. If I was to go to an area like that I'd leave my 8rd gun on the seat next to me and my high capacity gun in my hand. I pretty much doubt I'd risk a shot through the windshield. That I would think would send bit's of broken glass all over inside the car. Be hard to fight back with a bit of glass in your eye! Get's to the point where I'd have to shoot through glass I'd wait for the bad guy's to break it for me. I don't think a windshield broken from the outside with some object other than a bullet will send glass bit's flying like a bullet fired from inside. Then with the glass gone,firing through an open window is no sweat. Of course if you see your window is going to be shot out, nothing to lose fire away. Bottom line, recognize the situation and detour around it! I think it was Morgan Freeman said in the movie "Robin Hood", "live to fight another day"!

August 19, 2020, 01:25 PM	#7
tango1niner Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: NY Posts: 317	If I might have to fire from inside the vehicle I most definitely want hearing protection. Let's just say corded ear plugs dangling from around my neck. JIC...

August 19, 2020, 01:46 PM	#8
Rangerrich99 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Location: Kinda near Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,254	From a purely physical standpoint, I'd imagine you'd see less deflection with a relatively short, heavy bullet. Maybe something shaped like a semi wad-cutter? I would think that .40 S&W 180 grain would fit the bill fairly well. Or .44 mag. Or 10 mm with a truncated nose. Something along those lines, I'm guessing. Of course, firing a gun inside a small enclosed space like a car would probably do permanent damage to a person's ears, so I wouldn't recommend it.

August 19, 2020, 01:49 PM	#9
SaltyPirate Junior Member Join Date: April 9, 2020 Posts: 14	This is an easy one. Underwood Extreme Penetrator. Empirical: I own a bunch. Just look it up. There's no second guessing.

August 19, 2020, 02:13 PM	#10
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	I copied this link from a FrankenMauser post. It includes high speed vid of an artillery round (IIRC,a 105 mm) being deflected seriously by a watermelon. ( correction! Its a 152 mm) I ,myself,would not put a lot of brain damage into speculating which bullet will not be deflected. Maybe a police dept sniper could justify conducting a series of tests on angles and deflections,or maybe its already been done and data is available. https://youtu.be/xpJ8EoGmLuE?t=365 Last edited by HiBC; August 20, 2020 at 09:53 AM.

August 19, 2020, 02:21 PM	#11
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	I can't imagine a scenario where I would risk a ricochet back to me, completely making me deaf and breaching the strength of a defensive barrier to get out of a situation as opposed to using the D or R on my transmission. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

August 19, 2020, 06:51 PM	#13
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,973	God forbid you had to shoot from inside a car, crack a window if you can to let some of the sound out. regardless your going to be deaf for a bit, but there should be less damage. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

August 19, 2020, 07:02 PM	#14
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	Your ears will never be the same if you do. If you maintain situational awareness, you'll never be in that position. __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

August 20, 2020, 09:02 AM	#16
vito Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2004 Location: IL Posts: 853	IT seems that the only reason you would have to fire through the windshield is when the threat is immediately in front of your vehicle. Ducking down and stepping on the accelerator might be better than any round through the glass windshield. Plus it puts the engine as a barrier between you and the threat. __________________ People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ― George Orwell

August 20, 2020, 02:06 PM	#18
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	if the bullet doesn't penetrate the glass the angle would deflect it down, fired from inside and up from outside. But consider this, when the bullet does penetrate, its going through this / kind of angle of barrier. Because of the angle one side of the bullet is still in contact with the barrier as it passes through when it leaves contact with the other side. In other words, fired this way /<-- the top of the bullet gets through the glass while the bottom side is still in contact, and this tends to deflect the bullet up. going the other way, tis just the opposite and the bullet tends do deflect down. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 22, 2020, 06:31 AM	#19
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,808	Don't overthink it. Sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do and with the gun you have. Most anything will go through glass. Interesting video from Las Vegas a while back where a murder suspect is being chased. The SUV passenger is firing at the officer who effectively returns fire through the windshield eventually stopping the vehicle. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...CF&FORM=VDQVAP __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

August 22, 2020, 10:04 AM	#20
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	Yep, up going out, down going in. Shooting into a vehicle the deflection is not really big enough to worry about. Nor is it big enough shooting out, if the tgt is right at the front of the hood. Maybe 2-3” MAX At that distance, hold the sights center and shoot as normal. If the tgt is at 10yards off the hood, now you can have a deflection issue. The solution is MULTIPLE rounds, trying to shoot through the same hole. The first cpl will open a hole in the laminated glass and subsequent rounds will pass thru with little/no deflection.

August 22, 2020, 10:52 AM	#21
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	Here's an actual training video with more definitive results: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS9918S5pHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS9918S5pHw __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

August 22, 2020, 02:47 PM	#23
ms6852 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 1,394	Windshields are expensive to replace, I'm in a car I am not shooting, you have a vehicles that weighs a couple of thousand pounds , I know I can move a 300 pound individual or a group of people out of the way if it came to that. I'd rather spend 10 bucks at the car wash cleaning up what ever mess was left on the tires, and bumper. __________________ ONLY TWO DEFINING FORCES HAVE GIVEN UP THEIR LIVES FOR YOU. ONE IS JESUS CHRIST FOR YOUR SOUL AND THE OTHER IS THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOUR FREEDOM.

August 23, 2020, 12:33 PM	#24
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS99...?v=BS9918S5pHw That video says it best. You really can't say with 100% certainty what's going to happen when shooting through auto glass. Slope up, slope down, curve left, curve right. What he said towards the end is the answer. "Keep shooting until the threat has been eliminated." The average person doesn't have time to stop and think about where the bullet is going to get deflected. Keep that trigger moving until the threat is over. If your car is still mobile, use it, get the hell out of there.

August 23, 2020, 04:03 PM	#25
Ingramite Member Join Date: October 24, 2017 Posts: 54	I would look at the scenario from a different point of view. That point of view would be defending or even explaining to a LEO why I thought firing through a windshield from the safety of my own car would be justifiable. I suppose about the only case I can see where it would be justifiable would be if a pedestrian was pointing a weapon at you and there was no possible escape route. Just know that no matter what you do there will be EXTREME backlash and fallout. You will be tried in the media and convicted by round heeled politicians.