NRA and Russian Money

dajowi · April 27, 2018, 07:02 PM

Really? Or is this just an attempted murder of the NRA?

If the NRA was some how neutralized politically would the death of the 2nd amendment follow?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/27/polit...ker/index.html

RETG · April 27, 2018, 09:20 PM

Ron Wyden and CNN? Take your pick. Both want to destroy the NRA and Trump.

turkeestalker · April 27, 2018, 10:00 PM

What is that old phrase?
Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see (read)?
Considering the date that phrase came to be, (1845?), and what forms of media were available at that time half was probably pretty close.
Compared to what forms of media are available today, their abundance and their ilk...
maybe half is being overly optimistic?

SSA · April 27, 2018, 11:08 PM

I've been following this story for two years.

Rolling Stone did an article on it a few weeks ago.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...-trump-w518587

Or you can Google 'NRA Russian money' and get over 3 million results.

**44 AMP** · April 27, 2018, 11:13 PM

Cut through all the speculation and it boils down to one real thing. Either the NRA, through some of the people in it, broke some law(s), or they didn't.

IF there is proof that someone in the NRA has been breaking the law, in our name, then they should be identified and punished.

An accusation is not proof. An investigation is not proof. The findings of an investigation might be.

IF it comes to an actual investigation, if the NRA doesn't have every scrap of paper or electronic file about anything they are asked for, if they don't have it instantly available to turn over, they will be accused in the press of "stonewalling" or at the least being uncooperative.

We need to look at actual facts, and the law, and not just listen to the mob brandishing torches and pitchforks, chanting "burn the witch!!"

Personally, I find the idea of "Russia influencing the election through the NRA..." to be ludicrous. Does anyone actually think it was because Russian paid them that the NRA endorsed Trump over Clinton???

I'd think it was more like "thanks for the check for doing what I was going to do anyway..."

If some rules about how much can be given to whom, from where, (etc.) were broken, then the people who failed to do their "due diligence" need to pay for their failure. Aside from that, what is the issue??

TXAZ · April 27, 2018, 11:31 PM

Considering:
All the claims in the past 2 years on what the Russians (may have) done
The previous (insane?) claims of Mr. Wyden on virtually every area of world events
The number of attacks on NRA
Certain "news" organizations that don't appear to do much cross checking before running a sensational story

Why would you believe any of the diatribe?

The truth is out there, all you have to do to find it is discount un-credible sources.

SSA · April 27, 2018, 11:54 PM

The FBI is investigating a guy named Torshin. Torshin has had his picture taken with Putin. Torshin has had his picture taken at NRA conventions. That is just one example.
There are dozens, maybe hundreds of credible sources.

**Aguila Blanca** · April 28, 2018, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSA

The FBI is investigating a guy named Torshin. Torshin has had his picture taken with Putin. Torshin has had his picture taken at NRA conventions. That is just one example.
There are dozens, maybe hundreds of credible sources.

Correlation does not equate to causation.

I'm an NRA member.

I've been to Russia.

So what?

SPEMack618 · April 28, 2018, 10:04 AM

As have I.

Even more frightening, my Uncle was our Air Attache to Moscow in the early 90s. To this day, he is still in contact with some of his friends from the Russian Air Forces.

He is a life member of the NRA as well.

"Senior Air Force NRA member has ties to senior Russian air defense officials!

turkeestalker · April 28, 2018, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Or you can Google 'NRA Russian money' and get over 3 million results.

This same claim was made in a previous thread, and for curiosities sake I tried it.
855,000 was about all it came up with then, and is all it comes up with now.
Regardless of the number, since it's on the internet it must be true... uuh....bonjour?

Following a story for two years about a decade long Russian plot to elect Donald Trump as president... worthwhile endeavor.

Here is one sentence from the Rolling Stone article linked:

Quote:

"It's all a big charade, basically," Glenn Simpson, founder of the research firm behind the infamous Steele Dossier, testified to the House Intelligence Committee.

This totally credible Glenn Simpson guy is right once again... it IS all a big charade basically.

**Tom Servo** · April 28, 2018, 03:45 PM

OK, guys. I'm gonna lay it on you. Here's what we have evidence of:

Some people in Russia sent some money to the NRA.

I know, right? Scandal!

Now let's parse the numbers. 23 people contributed a total of $2500 over a three-year period. That's $36/year per person. If I can throw a United States presidential election for that kind of scratch, sign me up.

The simpler, more likely answer is that there are 23 American business men, consultants, or students in Russia who are just keeping up with their magazine subscriptions. Note that none of that money went to the ILA, which does the actual lobbying, but to the NRA Foundation.

But that doesn't matter to a media who've been prodded to march in lockstep to an anti-NRA beat. They got themselves a story that had NRA, Russia, and money, and they ran with it under the expectation that people are too gullible to read past the headline. It's like a really annoying version of Mad Libs.

5whiskey · April 29, 2018, 09:26 PM

Won't this Russia thing just go away? The only revelation out of this thing that bothered me a little was some of the NRA membership doing a "people to people" mission in Russia mere months after Crimea was annexed and a commercial airplane was shot down by a Russian SAM (fired by pro Russian ukrainians). even that isn't the end of the world. For all I know that trip was 3 years in the making and backing out wasn't simple. Torshin is a dead end imo. It's wanting to see the bogeyman sleeping in the NRAs bed since the media cant prove it slept in the presidents bed.

Skans · April 30, 2018, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Really? Or is this just an attempted murder of the NRA?

It's nothing more than an attempt to stop GOP candidates from being friendly toward the NRA.

**Tom Servo** · April 30, 2018, 07:49 AM

Quote:

It's wanting to see the bogeyman sleeping in the NRAs bed since the media cant prove it slept in the presidents bed.

The problem is the media and political landscape we have right now. They don't have to prove any of their allegations. If they're wrong, there's no pressure to retract or apologize. It's more profitable to run an attention-getting headline and collect the ad money from an audience preinclined to believe the allegations than it is to be an actual journalist.

So, we find ourselves living in the shadow of Harry Knowles and Steve Bannon and the public has real trouble distinguishing between real news and tabloid clickbait.

This is the real threat to the 1st Amendment and journalistic integrity, not some hostile quip from a frustrated politician.

**4V50 Gary** · April 30, 2018, 10:11 AM

How is this even an issue? If anyone received a lot of money from Russia, it's the losers of the last presidential election.

rickyrick · April 30, 2018, 06:06 PM

Someone is in relationship with Russia, they’ve been taking our astronauts into space for years.
Roll my darn eyes.

Buzzcook · May 3, 2018, 02:09 PM

Quote:

If anyone received a lot of money from Russia, it's the losers of the last presidential election.

4V50 Gary: you got proof of that?
In a thread that questions the validity of legitimate news sources and various US intelligence agencies, to throw out an unfounded accusation seems ironic at best.

DaleA · May 3, 2018, 03:39 PM

Does anybody believe it is just a coincidence that at the NRA Foundation Banquet tonight there will be no RUSSIAN DRESSING option for the salads???

turkeestalker · May 3, 2018, 03:56 PM

Coincidence?!?!?! I think NOT!!!

zukiphile · May 3, 2018, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4V50 Gary

How is this even an issue? If anyone received a lot of money from Russia, it's the losers of the last presidential election.

Indeed, and it is hardly a new story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/u...m-company.html

Glenn E. Meyer · May 4, 2018, 01:18 PM

Isn't this terrible: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/nra-...ry?id=54932526

Putin's cronies are making money off American gun nuts!!

I wonder if the news media are equally shocked by the fact that our military is dependent on Chinese minerals?

https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/...-bad-to-worse/

Buzzcook · May 4, 2018, 01:24 PM

Zukiphile. FOX news, Snopes, and your original source the NYT pretty much say there isn't anything to the Uranium One deal. The story seems to be a zombie used to direct attention away from other stories.

http://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-hos...ium-one-711762

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hi...m-russia-deal/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/14/u...y-clinton.html

Hal · May 5, 2018, 04:55 AM

Quote:

In a thread that questions the validity of legitimate news sources and various US intelligence agencies, to throw out an unfounded accusation seems ironic at best.

The NYT pretty much started the whole Uranium One thing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/u...m-company.html

s3779m · May 5, 2018, 05:50 AM

Quote:

4V50 Gary: you got proof of that?
In a thread that questions the validity of legitimate news sources and various US intelligence agencies, to throw out an unfounded accusation seems ironic at best.

here's this too.
https://nypost.com/2016/07/31/report...-during-reset/

DaleA · May 5, 2018, 10:50 AM

Re: NRA and Russian ties and the ABC 'News' report in post #21:
(https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/nra-...ry?id=54932526)

For pity sakes!
My lame, stupid joke in post #18 is a more credible indication of NRA 'collusion' with the Ruskies than the ABC 'News' article above.

If you do go read the ABC article take a look at the comments to the story. About half the comments are trying to paint a Russian/NRA conspiracy and the contortions the commenters go thru to do this are worthy of a Cirque du Soleil performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-1-gLv3aWs

Thank you Glenn for your post #21.

April 27, 2018, 10:00 PM	#3
turkeestalker Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2015 Location: Cottleville, Missouri Posts: 1,115	What is that old phrase? Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see (read)? Considering the date that phrase came to be, (1845?), and what forms of media were available at that time half was probably pretty close. Compared to what forms of media are available today, their abundance and their ilk... maybe half is being overly optimistic? __________________ Vegetarian... primitive word for lousy hunter!

April 27, 2018, 11:13 PM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	Cut through all the speculation and it boils down to one real thing. Either the NRA, through some of the people in it, broke some law(s), or they didn't. IF there is proof that someone in the NRA has been breaking the law, in our name, then they should be identified and punished. An accusation is not proof. An investigation is not proof. The findings of an investigation might be. IF it comes to an actual investigation, if the NRA doesn't have every scrap of paper or electronic file about anything they are asked for, if they don't have it instantly available to turn over, they will be accused in the press of "stonewalling" or at the least being uncooperative. We need to look at actual facts, and the law, and not just listen to the mob brandishing torches and pitchforks, chanting "burn the witch!!" Personally, I find the idea of "Russia influencing the election through the NRA..." to be ludicrous. Does anyone actually think it was because Russian paid them that the NRA endorsed Trump over Clinton??? I'd think it was more like "thanks for the check for doing what I was going to do anyway..." If some rules about how much can be given to whom, from where, (etc.) were broken, then the people who failed to do their "due diligence" need to pay for their failure. Aside from that, what is the issue?? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 27, 2018, 11:31 PM	#6
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	Considering: All the claims in the past 2 years on what the Russians (may have) done The previous (insane?) claims of Mr. Wyden on virtually every area of world events The number of attacks on NRA Certain "news" organizations that don't appear to do much cross checking before running a sensational story Why would you believe any of the diatribe? The truth is out there, all you have to do to find it is discount un-credible sources. __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

April 28, 2018, 10:04 AM	#9
SPEMack618 Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Location: Central Georgia Posts: 1,863	As have I. Even more frightening, my Uncle was our Air Attache to Moscow in the early 90s. To this day, he is still in contact with some of his friends from the Russian Air Forces. He is a life member of the NRA as well. "Senior Air Force NRA member has ties to senior Russian air defense officials! __________________ NRA Life Member Read my blog! "The answer to any caliber debate is going to be .38 Super, 10mm, .357 Sig or .41 Magnum!"

April 28, 2018, 03:45 PM	#11
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	OK, guys. I'm gonna lay it on you. Here's what we have evidence of: Some people in Russia sent some money to the NRA. I know, right? Scandal! Now let's parse the numbers. 23 people contributed a total of $2500 over a three-year period. That's $36/year per person. If I can throw a United States presidential election for that kind of scratch, sign me up. The simpler, more likely answer is that there are 23 American business men, consultants, or students in Russia who are just keeping up with their magazine subscriptions. Note that none of that money went to the ILA, which does the actual lobbying, but to the NRA Foundation. But that doesn't matter to a media who've been prodded to march in lockstep to an anti-NRA beat. They got themselves a story that had NRA, Russia, and money, and they ran with it under the expectation that people are too gullible to read past the headline. It's like a really annoying version of Mad Libs. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

April 27, 2018, 07:02 PM	#1
dajowi Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Posts: 1,196	NRA and Russian Money Really? Or is this just an attempted murder of the NRA? If the NRA was some how neutralized politically would the death of the 2nd amendment follow? https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/27/polit...ker/index.html

April 27, 2018, 09:20 PM	#2
RETG Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2009 Location: Somewhere in Idaho, near WY Posts: 507	Ron Wyden and CNN? Take your pick. Both want to destroy the NRA and Trump. __________________ I give MY OPINION (not often) based on many years shooting at, other than paper targets. I will not debate my experience vs. your experience based on dreams and "what ifs." I'm 73; I'm too damn old to care.

April 27, 2018, 11:08 PM	#4
SSA Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Posts: 641	I've been following this story for two years. Rolling Stone did an article on it a few weeks ago. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...-trump-w518587 Or you can Google 'NRA Russian money' and get over 3 million results.

April 27, 2018, 11:54 PM	#7
SSA Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Posts: 641	The FBI is investigating a guy named Torshin. Torshin has had his picture taken with Putin. Torshin has had his picture taken at NRA conventions. That is just one example. There are dozens, maybe hundreds of credible sources.

April 29, 2018, 09:26 PM	#12
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,657	Won't this Russia thing just go away? The only revelation out of this thing that bothered me a little was some of the NRA membership doing a "people to people" mission in Russia mere months after Crimea was annexed and a commercial airplane was shot down by a Russian SAM (fired by pro Russian ukrainians). even that isn't the end of the world. For all I know that trip was 3 years in the making and backing out wasn't simple. Torshin is a dead end imo. It's wanting to see the bogeyman sleeping in the NRAs bed since the media cant prove it slept in the presidents bed. __________________ Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946

April 30, 2018, 10:11 AM	#15
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,833	How is this even an issue? If anyone received a lot of money from Russia, it's the losers of the last presidential election. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

April 30, 2018, 06:06 PM	#16
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,236	Someone is in relationship with Russia, they’ve been taking our astronauts into space for years. Roll my darn eyes.

May 3, 2018, 03:39 PM	#18
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,313	Does anybody believe it is just a *coincidence* that at the NRA Foundation Banquet tonight there will be no RUSSIAN DRESSING option for the salads???

May 3, 2018, 03:56 PM	#19
turkeestalker Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2015 Location: Cottleville, Missouri Posts: 1,115	Coincidence?!?!?! I think NOT!!! __________________ Vegetarian... primitive word for lousy hunter!

May 4, 2018, 01:18 PM	#21
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Isn't this terrible: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/nra-...ry?id=54932526 Putin's cronies are making money off American gun nuts!! I wonder if the news media are equally shocked by the fact that our military is dependent on Chinese minerals? https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/...-bad-to-worse/ __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

May 4, 2018, 01:24 PM	#22
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	Zukiphile. FOX news, Snopes, and your original source the NYT pretty much say there isn't anything to the Uranium One deal. The story seems to be a zombie used to direct attention away from other stories. http://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-hos...ium-one-711762 https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hi...m-russia-deal/ https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/14/u...y-clinton.html

May 5, 2018, 10:50 AM	#25
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,313	Re: NRA and Russian ties and the ABC 'News' report in post #21: (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/nra-...ry?id=54932526) For pity sakes! My lame, stupid joke in post #18 is a more credible indication of NRA 'collusion' with the Ruskies than the ABC 'News' article above. If you do go read the ABC article take a look at the comments to the story. About half the comments are trying to paint a Russian/NRA conspiracy and the contortions the commenters go thru to do this are worthy of a Cirque du Soleil performance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-1-gLv3aWs Thank you Glenn for your post #21.