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Old May 9, 2014, 02:50 PM   #1
steve4102
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$500 reward for reporting “illegal guns” in new york

The city of Peekskill NY is offering a $500 reward for information regarding "illegal" firearms. If the tip results in confiscation of "illegal" firearms, the caller gets $500.

http://tellmenow.com/2014/05/500-rew...s-in-new-york/

My question, is an Anonymous tip of this sort enough Probable Cause for LE to acquire a search warrant?

I did the Google and came up with the recent SC ruling on traffic stops and anonymous tips. Same or different?
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Old May 9, 2014, 03:21 PM   #2
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Regardless of how misguided the intent of this is, its implementation will have all sorts of side effects costly to both the city's budget and the citizens' rights and safety.

Reading the comments to the story, we can see which side of the debate is first to start the name-calling.
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Old May 9, 2014, 03:54 PM   #3
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LOL, the picture is hilarious. OK, I'll admit you might find an AR-15 or a Glock 17 in New York that would be considered illegal now. But an M249? Two MP5 variants? I don't know where I would find of those in places that they ARE legal.

My intuition tells me they are airsoft guns, though. I think I have seen all of those models before.
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Old May 9, 2014, 04:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
My question, is an Anonymous tip of this sort enough Probable Cause for LE to acquire a search warrant?
It depends. If there is simply a report that John Doe has an illegal gun, it wouldn't be enough. If there is a report that John Doe has a Colt AR-15 with an Aimpoint Pro with 30 round mags and keeps it in the trunk of his pink Cadillac with license number XYZ-123, then there is likely probable cause. The Supreme Court has said an anonymous tip alone is not enough but if there is enough detail and some of it can be corroborated by police (pink caddy, license plate) then that can be probable cause. It is very fact oriented.
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Old May 9, 2014, 04:57 PM   #5
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Does this just apply to the city of Peekskill?

Otherwise, we could all really abuse the heck out of that hotline.
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Old May 9, 2014, 06:00 PM   #6
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Heck I'm just wondering what happens if John Q Public calls in his neighbor over and over. If all it takes is knowing the car make, color, and plate number, and my neighbor's being a dink about his tree and the leaves it's dropping on my lawn..
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Old May 9, 2014, 06:40 PM   #7
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^^^
That's kinda why I asked the question.

Can these simple "Call for Money" anonymous phone calls be sufficient for a Search Warrant?

It wouldn't take much to coax the needed info from the caller.

I'm sorry sir we need more information, what kind of car, color, Lic plate, when does he go to the range, black rifle you say, what color black, etc.etc.etc.
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Old May 9, 2014, 06:55 PM   #8
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Fraught with potential unintended consequences

Totalitarian regimes never seem to have a problem kicking in doors and whisking people off never to be seen again. But in America? on anonymous tips? This is a scary ordinance. i hope it doesn't withstand the inevitable legal challenges and doubt it will.

So when the PD serves one of these warrants, they'll naturally be on edge - seeking illegal guns and all, I would be - it's very easy to envision someone getting shot. A homeowner and law abiding gun owner jumps up as the door crashes open, or reaches for his waistband as the first LEO enters, gun drawn. Cops and citizens alike will be endangered if they actually try to enforce this.

Maybe the thing scarier than the actual ordinance is that so many seem to think it is a good idea. What was is Franklin said about trading liberty for safety?
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Old May 9, 2014, 08:41 PM   #9
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Anonymous tips in and of themselves don't constitute cause for detention or seizure. See Florida v. J.L.
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Old May 10, 2014, 06:56 AM   #10
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The Aguilar–Spinelli test was a judicial guideline set down by the U.S. Supreme Court for evaluating the validity of a search warrant or a warrantless arrest based on information provided by a confidential informant or an anonymous tip. The Supreme Court abandoned the Aguilar–Spinelli test in Illinois v. Gates, 462 U.S. 213 (1983), in favor of a rule that evaluates the reliability of the information under the "totality of the circumstances." However, Alaska, Massachusetts, New York, Tennessee, Vermont, and Washington have retained the Aguilar–Spinelli test, based on their own state constitutions.

The two "prongs" of the test are that, when law enforcement seeks a search warrant and a magistrate signs a warrant:

1)The magistrate must be informed of the reasons to support the conclusion that such an informant is reliable and credible.

2)The magistrate must be informed of some of the underlying circumstances relied on by the person providing the information.
[1]

This information provided to a magistrate will allow the magistrate to make an independent evaluation of the probable cause that a crime has been or will be committed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aguilar...ote-spinelli-1


Help me to understand this, please.

First, the "caller seeking $500" would not be anonymous if seeking money, so the caller would be known to LE. I think the term would be Confidential Informant, yes?

Being a Known to LE it would be very easy to determine if the informant is credible or not. A brother-in-Law, co-worker, neighbor, relative or even friend. Would this be sufficient to support the Conclusion that the informant is "Credible and Reliable"?

The second part of the "two Prong" test is underlying circumstances relied on by the informant. What are some example of this?
Would any of these qualify.
He told be he as "Assault rifles"
I have seen his gun collection.
I saw him put several gun cases in the trunk of his car.
His wife told me.
He brags about it at work.
I saw him at the rally burning registration forms.

Thanks.
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Old May 10, 2014, 07:48 AM   #11
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Here is the root cause of the problem. Assigning blame to an inanimate object. One of the commenters to the story said this:

Quote:
Tim Orr · Top Commenter · Incident Manager at Hewlett-Packard

I disagree. Not all guns are legal. The person that just got out of prison should not have a gun. A gun that was stolen from you is illegal.
So, the gun is illegal? Not the person that stole it? Blaming guns for the actions of people take personal responsibility out of the equation. It is not the criminals fault, it is the gun's fault. Right...........
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Old May 10, 2014, 09:56 AM   #12
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"The children, on the other hand, were systematically turned against their parents and taught to spy on them and report their deviations."
-1984

Also; MP5's and a freakin' Minimi? Are these people seriously using stock footage of the SWAT's armory as a prop for 'illegal' guns? God, the irony . In that case, we'll never be at a loss for 'guns on the street' --they'll just keep running old pictures of seizures for ever to trump up whatever civil rights violations they feel are necessary.

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Old May 10, 2014, 11:45 AM   #13
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So, the gun is illegal? Not the person that stole it?
While a lot of people do blame the gun, not the gun user. in the example given, yes, the gun is illegal. They don't say the guy who has the gun stole, just that the gun he has is "illegal".
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Old May 11, 2014, 08:00 PM   #14
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Totalitarian regimes typically turn the citizens/subjects against each other for personal gain. No surprise here. We are not living in the country we grew up in.
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Old May 11, 2014, 09:22 PM   #15
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Things are bad in New York, but it's a gross exaggeration to refer to it as a totalitarian regime. I've seen those. This isn't one.

Let's dial the rhetoric back a hair.
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Old May 11, 2014, 09:30 PM   #16
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I see a major opportunity here for swatting based on a few coordinated tips when's few want revenge or official entertainment. It's not going to turn out pretty.
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Old May 12, 2014, 01:32 AM   #17
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Here is a video of the coucilman talking about the program. Not much info on how they will go about it, but I would imagine with the need to raise "Donations" they will have to bring out the big "guns" and get TV time. Yes, I see swatting as a very possible answer to a very small problem.

http://peekskill.dailyvoice.com/poli...l-gun-tip-line
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Old May 13, 2014, 12:08 AM   #18
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Things are bad in New York, but it's a gross exaggeration to refer to it as a totalitarian regime. I've seen those. This isn't one.
Hyperbole has it purpose. I am alarmed at the characteristics of totalitarianism that we are conditioned to accept...so much so that some do not recognize what is plain to see.
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Old May 13, 2014, 08:43 AM   #19
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Characteristics like a government, and a body of laws? The Due Process may suck, but it's still there. There are no mass graves, no incarceration without an eventual trial.

Hyperbole may serve its purpose, but that purpose is rarely good. Now instead of the 30 some odd states that still maintain a militia, hyperbole has us referring to every group of nuts in the woods or a compound as a militia, cheapening and sullying the people who do serve in such an organization. 3 guns, and a year's worth of ammo picked up at the Fourth of July sale is now an arsenal. Hyperbole also gives us snide questions about whether some kook who goes off the deep end was just standing his ground.
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Old May 13, 2014, 12:09 PM   #20
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Hyperbole has it purpose.
Yes it does, and that purpose is to distort the truth. We don't need to do that. Leave it to our opponents.
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Old May 14, 2014, 10:29 PM   #21
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Does this mean that if I turn in 50 gun owners, I will have enough money to buy another M16?
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Old May 15, 2014, 12:41 PM   #22
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I believe you should at a bare minimum be required to give your information, which is verified before any action is taken to the police in the case of something like this. Otherwise besides a defacto Stasi state you also have a new method of SWATing people.
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Old May 15, 2014, 02:51 PM   #23
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Here is the root cause of the problem. Assigning blame to an inanimate object. One of the commenters to the story said this:
This statement is spot on correct.

And not one of the weapons in that photo are illegal, not one of them, not even the SAW.

Some of them appear to be Class III weapons, regardless of what their actual classification, they are not illegal weapons. They are on the other hand weapons which can only be owned under certain circumstances. If an individual, or in some cases, a business, can meet the requirements for ownership then there is no problem possessing them. There are a few States where Individuals may not own Class II weapons yet businesses may under specific conditions, but again, the emphasis is not on the weapon, it's on who is doing to owning.

To help point out the validity of my claim, I bring the following exhibits.

M249 Minimi SAW.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=416481805

MP5 Dealer Sample gun;
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=412678615

Go way back for this M-16;
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=414689880

Not to mention that under the safe act, non-Class II versions of most of these weapons are considered Assault Weapons, take the handguns for instance, and are no longer legal for most folks to own.

That being said, they are not illegal under Federal Law, it's New York State's laws that are the issue. Furthermore, most States hold that other political subdivisions, Counties, Parishes, Cities, etc, can not make their own gun laws and have to live with the State's laws for better or worse.

Still, as we can see, it is not the guns that are illegal, it is whether it is legal for whatever individual to own them. This is an important distinction.
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Old May 15, 2014, 04:24 PM   #24
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Sooo, be a rat for 500.00? our society is turning this way. too bad that it has come to this.
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