|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
May 9, 2014, 02:50 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,949
|
$500 reward for reporting “illegal guns” in new york
The city of Peekskill NY is offering a $500 reward for information regarding "illegal" firearms. If the tip results in confiscation of "illegal" firearms, the caller gets $500.
http://tellmenow.com/2014/05/500-rew...s-in-new-york/ My question, is an Anonymous tip of this sort enough Probable Cause for LE to acquire a search warrant? I did the Google and came up with the recent SC ruling on traffic stops and anonymous tips. Same or different? |
May 9, 2014, 03:21 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 29, 2002
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 465
|
Regardless of how misguided the intent of this is, its implementation will have all sorts of side effects costly to both the city's budget and the citizens' rights and safety.
Reading the comments to the story, we can see which side of the debate is first to start the name-calling.
__________________
Send lawyers, guns, and money... Armorer-at-Law.com 07FFL/02SOT |
May 9, 2014, 03:54 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 25, 2013
Location: Keystone Heights, Florida
Posts: 3,084
|
LOL, the picture is hilarious. OK, I'll admit you might find an AR-15 or a Glock 17 in New York that would be considered illegal now. But an M249? Two MP5 variants? I don't know where I would find of those in places that they ARE legal.
My intuition tells me they are airsoft guns, though. I think I have seen all of those models before.
__________________
Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com. |
May 9, 2014, 04:49 PM | #4 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,137
|
Quote:
|
|
May 9, 2014, 04:57 PM | #5 |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,057
|
Does this just apply to the city of Peekskill?
Otherwise, we could all really abuse the heck out of that hotline.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
May 9, 2014, 06:00 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
|
Heck I'm just wondering what happens if John Q Public calls in his neighbor over and over. If all it takes is knowing the car make, color, and plate number, and my neighbor's being a dink about his tree and the leaves it's dropping on my lawn..
|
May 9, 2014, 06:40 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,949
|
^^^
That's kinda why I asked the question. Can these simple "Call for Money" anonymous phone calls be sufficient for a Search Warrant? It wouldn't take much to coax the needed info from the caller. I'm sorry sir we need more information, what kind of car, color, Lic plate, when does he go to the range, black rifle you say, what color black, etc.etc.etc. |
May 9, 2014, 06:55 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 10, 2008
Location: Live Free or Die state
Posts: 259
|
Fraught with potential unintended consequences
Totalitarian regimes never seem to have a problem kicking in doors and whisking people off never to be seen again. But in America? on anonymous tips? This is a scary ordinance. i hope it doesn't withstand the inevitable legal challenges and doubt it will.
So when the PD serves one of these warrants, they'll naturally be on edge - seeking illegal guns and all, I would be - it's very easy to envision someone getting shot. A homeowner and law abiding gun owner jumps up as the door crashes open, or reaches for his waistband as the first LEO enters, gun drawn. Cops and citizens alike will be endangered if they actually try to enforce this. Maybe the thing scarier than the actual ordinance is that so many seem to think it is a good idea. What was is Franklin said about trading liberty for safety?
__________________
"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness... How pathetic." - - Ted Nugent "Cogito, Ergo Armitum Sum" - (I Think, Therefore I Am Armed)- - anon. |
May 9, 2014, 08:41 PM | #9 |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,057
|
Anonymous tips in and of themselves don't constitute cause for detention or seizure. See Florida v. J.L.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
May 10, 2014, 06:56 AM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,949
|
The Aguilar–Spinelli test was a judicial guideline set down by the U.S. Supreme Court for evaluating the validity of a search warrant or a warrantless arrest based on information provided by a confidential informant or an anonymous tip. The Supreme Court abandoned the Aguilar–Spinelli test in Illinois v. Gates, 462 U.S. 213 (1983), in favor of a rule that evaluates the reliability of the information under the "totality of the circumstances." However, Alaska, Massachusetts, New York, Tennessee, Vermont, and Washington have retained the Aguilar–Spinelli test, based on their own state constitutions.
The two "prongs" of the test are that, when law enforcement seeks a search warrant and a magistrate signs a warrant: 1)The magistrate must be informed of the reasons to support the conclusion that such an informant is reliable and credible. 2)The magistrate must be informed of some of the underlying circumstances relied on by the person providing the information.[1] This information provided to a magistrate will allow the magistrate to make an independent evaluation of the probable cause that a crime has been or will be committed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aguilar...ote-spinelli-1 Help me to understand this, please. First, the "caller seeking $500" would not be anonymous if seeking money, so the caller would be known to LE. I think the term would be Confidential Informant, yes? Being a Known to LE it would be very easy to determine if the informant is credible or not. A brother-in-Law, co-worker, neighbor, relative or even friend. Would this be sufficient to support the Conclusion that the informant is "Credible and Reliable"? The second part of the "two Prong" test is underlying circumstances relied on by the informant. What are some example of this? Would any of these qualify. He told be he as "Assault rifles" I have seen his gun collection. I saw him put several gun cases in the trunk of his car. His wife told me. He brags about it at work. I saw him at the rally burning registration forms. Thanks. |
May 10, 2014, 07:48 AM | #11 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 21, 2000
Posts: 4,193
|
Here is the root cause of the problem. Assigning blame to an inanimate object. One of the commenters to the story said this:
Quote:
__________________
Pilot |
|
May 10, 2014, 09:56 AM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 17, 2012
Posts: 1,085
|
"The children, on the other hand, were systematically turned against their parents and taught to spy on them and report their deviations."
-1984 Also; MP5's and a freakin' Minimi? Are these people seriously using stock footage of the SWAT's armory as a prop for 'illegal' guns? God, the irony . In that case, we'll never be at a loss for 'guns on the street' --they'll just keep running old pictures of seizures for ever to trump up whatever civil rights violations they feel are necessary. TCB
__________________
"I don't believe that the men of the distant past were any wiser than we are today. But it does seem that their science and technology were able to accomplish much grander things." -- Alex Rosewater |
May 10, 2014, 11:45 AM | #13 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
|
Quote:
|
|
May 11, 2014, 08:00 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 27, 2002
Location: ut.
Posts: 341
|
Totalitarian regimes typically turn the citizens/subjects against each other for personal gain. No surprise here. We are not living in the country we grew up in.
|
May 11, 2014, 09:22 PM | #15 |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,057
|
Things are bad in New York, but it's a gross exaggeration to refer to it as a totalitarian regime. I've seen those. This isn't one.
Let's dial the rhetoric back a hair.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
May 11, 2014, 09:30 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 4,322
|
I see a major opportunity here for swatting based on a few coordinated tips when's few want revenge or official entertainment. It's not going to turn out pretty.
__________________
Cave illos in guns et backhoes |
May 12, 2014, 01:32 AM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 21, 2009
Location: West Central Missouri
Posts: 2,592
|
Here is a video of the coucilman talking about the program. Not much info on how they will go about it, but I would imagine with the need to raise "Donations" they will have to bring out the big "guns" and get TV time. Yes, I see swatting as a very possible answer to a very small problem.
http://peekskill.dailyvoice.com/poli...l-gun-tip-line
__________________
Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen. |
May 13, 2014, 12:08 AM | #18 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 27, 2002
Location: ut.
Posts: 341
|
Quote:
|
|
May 13, 2014, 08:43 AM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
|
Characteristics like a government, and a body of laws? The Due Process may suck, but it's still there. There are no mass graves, no incarceration without an eventual trial.
Hyperbole may serve its purpose, but that purpose is rarely good. Now instead of the 30 some odd states that still maintain a militia, hyperbole has us referring to every group of nuts in the woods or a compound as a militia, cheapening and sullying the people who do serve in such an organization. 3 guns, and a year's worth of ammo picked up at the Fourth of July sale is now an arsenal. Hyperbole also gives us snide questions about whether some kook who goes off the deep end was just standing his ground. |
May 13, 2014, 12:09 PM | #20 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,057
|
Quote:
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
|
May 14, 2014, 10:29 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 22, 2013
Posts: 1,277
|
Does this mean that if I turn in 50 gun owners, I will have enough money to buy another M16?
__________________
Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x |
May 15, 2014, 12:41 PM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 23, 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,293
|
I believe you should at a bare minimum be required to give your information, which is verified before any action is taken to the police in the case of something like this. Otherwise besides a defacto Stasi state you also have a new method of SWATing people.
__________________
"....The swords of others will set you your limits". |
May 15, 2014, 02:51 PM | #23 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 15, 2011
Posts: 1,405
|
Quote:
And not one of the weapons in that photo are illegal, not one of them, not even the SAW. Some of them appear to be Class III weapons, regardless of what their actual classification, they are not illegal weapons. They are on the other hand weapons which can only be owned under certain circumstances. If an individual, or in some cases, a business, can meet the requirements for ownership then there is no problem possessing them. There are a few States where Individuals may not own Class II weapons yet businesses may under specific conditions, but again, the emphasis is not on the weapon, it's on who is doing to owning. To help point out the validity of my claim, I bring the following exhibits. M249 Minimi SAW. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=416481805 MP5 Dealer Sample gun; http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=412678615 Go way back for this M-16; http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=414689880 Not to mention that under the safe act, non-Class II versions of most of these weapons are considered Assault Weapons, take the handguns for instance, and are no longer legal for most folks to own. That being said, they are not illegal under Federal Law, it's New York State's laws that are the issue. Furthermore, most States hold that other political subdivisions, Counties, Parishes, Cities, etc, can not make their own gun laws and have to live with the State's laws for better or worse. Still, as we can see, it is not the guns that are illegal, it is whether it is legal for whatever individual to own them. This is an important distinction.
__________________
Colt M1911, AR-15 | S&W Model 19, Model 27| SIG P238 | Berreta 85B Cheetah | Ruger Blackhawk .357MAG, Bearcat "Shopkeeper" .22LR| Remington Marine Magnum SP 12GA., Model 700 SPS .223 Last edited by lcpiper; May 15, 2014 at 03:03 PM. |
|
May 15, 2014, 04:24 PM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: Crescent Iowa
Posts: 2,971
|
Sooo, be a rat for 500.00? our society is turning this way. too bad that it has come to this.
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|