Can anyone indentify this strange musket-rifle!

banned · May 7, 2010, 12:41 PM

Hello All,

I was wondering if anyone might know about anything about my musket. All I really know is that it was passed down and it was likely a gift to one of my relatives who acted for British interests in the India and / or the Middle east.

I'm no expert but as far as I can tell it is probably one of a kind. I have my doubts as to whether it was actually fired or not as there seems to be not much sign of wear inside the barrel, however I may be wrong.

See link : http://s303.photobucket.com/albums/n...nown%20musket/

Thanks!!

w_houle · May 7, 2010, 01:00 PM

I doubt that's a real gun. Looks like someone's impression of a matchlock. It's definitely not a flinter nor caplock, but don't see how it would hold a fuze. I'd need to see a pic of the muzzle to be more certain, but these pics look to be the most telling
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0musket/g7.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0musket/g3.jpg

banned · May 7, 2010, 01:26 PM

Hi, I've added a few more to the album, these are just about the best I can do. I reckon the whole thing weights about 8 kilos. However it's had a some rough years and is a long way from it's original condition. I know of parts of it have gone missing and or broken but I'm not sure exactly what these were.

Also, the butt end appears to made of possibly camel skin, however I couldnt say that with certainty.

Slamfire · May 7, 2010, 01:45 PM

Looks like a beat up Arabic musket.

Might have had the miquelet lock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miquelet

w_houle · May 7, 2010, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Looks like a beat up Arabic musket.

Might have had the miquelet lock.

Good call on the pattern
http://www.eldreds.net/images/archive/215-216.jpg
http://www.christies.com/lotfinderim.../d5164316l.jpg
Although the lockwork appears to be a Khyber Pass reject... Still doesn't look to be a genuine gun
http://pirates.missiledine.com/doglock.html

SDC · May 7, 2010, 07:44 PM

This is a typical pattern for a Northern Indian matchlock musket, used up through the 1890s or so, so it matches up to your family's provenance; there's a pistol that uses the same style of trigger and ignition system at http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/l...jectID=5164308
These were used by local militia until the East India Co. and the British began running things, and equipping the locals with more modern rifles.

DavidAGO · May 7, 2010, 08:26 PM

I have seen a rifle similar to that one; it was brought back to the states in the 60's by a gentleman who traveled extensively in India and Africa in the 50's and 60's. When he showed it to me several years ago, he said the ball at the end of the stock was made of dung wrapped in goathide. He was getting on in years and did not remember exactly where he got it.

DavidAGO

**4V50 Gary** · May 7, 2010, 09:32 PM

Like SDC said, it's a matchlock. In the very first image, you can see how the arm an opening for the match cord to drop into the pan.

banned · May 8, 2010, 09:09 AM

I looked at it more today, indeed the arm the the trigger pulls has got a split in it for which I would assume would be a ignition cord of some sort. Next to the pot there is a hole or a vent but I cant tell if it's drilled right into the barrel. I took a measurement of the inside of the barrel and it doesn't go that deep, deffinately not the full length right infront of the drilled hole. I assume it's blocked somewhere, would there be a way of unblocking it or checking that out?

mapsjanhere · May 8, 2010, 09:19 AM

If it's a real gun, it might still be loaded (and I'm only half kidding here). Take a piece of wire and test the fire hole. If it seems to go all the way into a barrel, fill the hole with water and let it soak for a while before you try to pull the stuck bullet. People in the black powder forum probably have lots of techniques how to get the "obstruction" out.

Hawg · May 8, 2010, 01:41 PM

Easiest way to unload it would be with a co2 discharger. But I wouldn't buy one for one use. Compressed air might work if you can get a tight seal at the touch hole. Or if you know somebody that shoots bp and has a ramrod long enough to use a ball worm on it that will work. No need to wet it down. Might lube the bore to make extraction easier once it starts to move.

May 7, 2010, 12:41 PM	#1
banned Junior Member Join Date: May 7, 2010 Posts: 3	Can anyone indentify this strange musket-rifle! Hello All, I was wondering if anyone might know about anything about my musket. All I really know is that it was passed down and it was likely a gift to one of my relatives who acted for British interests in the India and / or the Middle east. I'm no expert but as far as I can tell it is probably one of a kind. I have my doubts as to whether it was actually fired or not as there seems to be not much sign of wear inside the barrel, however I may be wrong. See link : http://s303.photobucket.com/albums/n...nown%20musket/ Thanks!!

May 7, 2010, 01:00 PM	#2
w_houle Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,391	I doubt that's a real gun. Looks like someone's impression of a matchlock. It's definitely not a flinter nor caplock, but don't see how it would hold a fuze. I'd need to see a pic of the muzzle to be more certain, but these pics look to be the most telling http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0musket/g7.jpg http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0musket/g3.jpg __________________ How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished?

May 7, 2010, 07:44 PM	#6
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	This is a typical pattern for a Northern Indian matchlock musket, used up through the 1890s or so, so it matches up to your family's provenance; there's a pistol that uses the same style of trigger and ignition system at http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/l...jectID=5164308 These were used by local militia until the East India Co. and the British began running things, and equipping the locals with more modern rifles. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

May 7, 2010, 09:32 PM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	Like SDC said, it's a matchlock. In the very first image, you can see how the arm an opening for the match cord to drop into the pan. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

May 8, 2010, 09:19 AM	#10
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	If it's a real gun, it might still be loaded (and I'm only half kidding here). Take a piece of wire and test the fire hole. If it seems to go all the way into a barrel, fill the hole with water and let it soak for a while before you try to pull the stuck bullet. People in the black powder forum probably have lots of techniques how to get the "obstruction" out. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

May 7, 2010, 01:26 PM	#3
banned Junior Member Join Date: May 7, 2010 Posts: 3	Hi, I've added a few more to the album, these are just about the best I can do. I reckon the whole thing weights about 8 kilos. However it's had a some rough years and is a long way from it's original condition. I know of parts of it have gone missing and or broken but I'm not sure exactly what these were. Also, the butt end appears to made of possibly camel skin, however I couldnt say that with certainty.

May 7, 2010, 01:45 PM	#4
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	Looks like a beat up Arabic musket. Might have had the miquelet lock. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miquelet

May 7, 2010, 08:26 PM	#7
DavidAGO Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2008 Location: Magnolia, AR Posts: 340	I have seen a rifle similar to that one; it was brought back to the states in the 60's by a gentleman who traveled extensively in India and Africa in the 50's and 60's. When he showed it to me several years ago, he said the ball at the end of the stock was made of dung wrapped in goathide. He was getting on in years and did not remember exactly where he got it. DavidAGO

May 8, 2010, 09:09 AM	#9
banned Junior Member Join Date: May 7, 2010 Posts: 3	I looked at it more today, indeed the arm the the trigger pulls has got a split in it for which I would assume would be a ignition cord of some sort. Next to the pot there is a hole or a vent but I cant tell if it's drilled right into the barrel. I took a measurement of the inside of the barrel and it doesn't go that deep, deffinately not the full length right infront of the drilled hole. I assume it's blocked somewhere, would there be a way of unblocking it or checking that out?

May 8, 2010, 01:41 PM	#11
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Easiest way to unload it would be with a co2 discharger. But I wouldn't buy one for one use. Compressed air might work if you can get a tight seal at the touch hole. Or if you know somebody that shoots bp and has a ramrod long enough to use a ball worm on it that will work. No need to wet it down. Might lube the bore to make extraction easier once it starts to move.