2400, velocity, & plain-base boolits

awaveritt · January 14, 2010, 05:35 PM

Starting with what I have, I'm scratching my head over how hot I should load my 358-158gr. tumble lube SWC plain based bullets for my Marlin 1894c using Alliant 2400.

My load books suggest a range of 10.6 to 14.0 grains of 2400, but that is for the 358156 Gas Check design.

The Lee SWC's are 60/40 ww/stick-on alloy lubed with LLA. Sorry, I haven't got around to slugging my barrel but my bullets are dropping at .359 and weigh 160gr. with my alloy (air-cooled)

I want to load a ladder assortment to see which it likes best, but am wondering if I should approach the high end with plain based bullets or back off a bit to avoid leading.

**Unclenick** · January 14, 2010, 06:03 PM

Plus that alloy is a bit soft for maximum velocity. I would use plain clip-on WW alloy. If you already have this mixed, I suggest you add half a pound of lead-free, zinc-free plumber's solder to every 20 lbs. That will harden it a little and make it cast better. Until then, those bullets will do best in the subsonic velocity range. Maybe like around 900 fps. Not really 2400 territory. More like Unique or Universal. Also note, the Lyman is gas checked. That will save it from both blowby damage and base distortion from pressure. I think you may find you want to knock the upper load limit down a couple of grains with the Lee TL.

First question is whether you are using .357 or .38/spl cases? That affects pressure. The longer cases will keep the throat cleaner.

awaveritt · January 14, 2010, 06:13 PM

I'm talking 357 brass. The only other powder I have is Bullseye and figured 3.5 gr. of that would be great in my 38 cases for plinking in both the carbine and my S&W snubby.

In the Marlin carbine with the 2400, I do have some straight ww alloy and that sounds like a good idea. Would you water drop or heat treat, as well?

**Unclenick** · January 15, 2010, 01:50 PM

I think oven heat treating would be a good idea if you find you have to size the TL bullets to fit the finished cartridges in your chamber? If you don't need to size you may not need to heat treat, either. Sizing causes surface softening that progresses some over time, but you don't need to size, the bullet surface softening won't spread during the time the bullet travels down the barrel. As a result, the bullet is less prone to cause leading if it is fired as-cast and not sized.

Even with the WW alloy, adding the extra 2% tin will harden it a little more and make it fill the mold better, if that expense is OK with you? Do be sure to look at the MSDS for the solder if the alloy composition isn't published on the package? Zinc has been used in some lead-free solders (not many, that I can find), but apparently it interferes badly with bullet mold fill out when combined with lead.

January 14, 2010, 05:35 PM	#1
awaveritt Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2008 Location: Central Texas Posts: 259	2400, velocity, & plain-base boolits Starting with what I have, I'm scratching my head over how hot I should load my 358-158gr. tumble lube SWC plain based bullets for my Marlin 1894c using Alliant 2400. My load books suggest a range of 10.6 to 14.0 grains of 2400, but that is for the 358156 Gas Check design. The Lee SWC's are 60/40 ww/stick-on alloy lubed with LLA. Sorry, I haven't got around to slugging my barrel but my bullets are dropping at .359 and weigh 160gr. with my alloy (air-cooled) I want to load a ladder assortment to see which it likes best, but am wondering if I should approach the high end with plain based bullets or back off a bit to avoid leading.

January 14, 2010, 06:03 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Plus that alloy is a bit soft for maximum velocity. I would use plain clip-on WW alloy. If you already have this mixed, I suggest you add half a pound of lead-free, zinc-free plumber's solder to every 20 lbs. That will harden it a little and make it cast better. Until then, those bullets will do best in the subsonic velocity range. Maybe like around 900 fps. Not really 2400 territory. More like Unique or Universal. Also note, the Lyman is gas checked. That will save it from both blowby damage and base distortion from pressure. I think you may find you want to knock the upper load limit down a couple of grains with the Lee TL. First question is whether you are using .357 or .38/spl cases? That affects pressure. The longer cases will keep the throat cleaner. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; January 14, 2010 at 06:10 PM.

January 15, 2010, 01:50 PM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	I think oven heat treating would be a good idea if you find you have to size the TL bullets to fit the finished cartridges in your chamber? If you don't need to size you may not need to heat treat, either. Sizing causes surface softening that progresses some over time, but you don't need to size, the bullet surface softening won't spread during the time the bullet travels down the barrel. As a result, the bullet is less prone to cause leading if it is fired as-cast and not sized. Even with the WW alloy, adding the extra 2% tin will harden it a little more and make it fill the mold better, if that expense is OK with you? Do be sure to look at the MSDS for the solder if the alloy composition isn't published on the package? Zinc has been used in some lead-free solders (not many, that I can find), but apparently it interferes badly with bullet mold fill out when combined with lead. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

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January 14, 2010, 06:13 PM	#3
awaveritt Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2008 Location: Central Texas Posts: 259	I'm talking 357 brass. The only other powder I have is Bullseye and figured 3.5 gr. of that would be great in my 38 cases for plinking in both the carbine and my S&W snubby. In the Marlin carbine with the 2400, I do have some straight ww alloy and that sounds like a good idea. Would you water drop or heat treat, as well?