300 Holland & Holland and Vihta N 170

[Saguaro 66]

Hi everybody !

I'm a hunter from the Pyrenees mountains. I have been hunting mostly with .308 and lately a Sako L61r H&H fell into my hands. The rifle has a 24.4" or 620mm barrel.

I want to develop a hunting handload.

At this moment I just have Vihtavuori N170 And Sierra pro hunter 220gr R.N.

I don't have any data with this powder bullet combo. I have been many hours looking for data for this application and found nothing.

As far as I know 300 Win Mag loading data and 300 h&h are very similar, about 5% lower for the British. So 300 Win Mag loading data with Vihtavuori N170 is also welcome as a good reference.

Can some more experienced handloader than me help me with the N170 with heavy bullets in those calibers ?

Thanks a lot in advance.

[Unclenick]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

Welcome to the forum.


I don't have personal experience with your cartridge, but I can tell you that QuickLOAD suggests that N170 is too slow for it and that a case filled 100% under the bullet will reach only about 70% of maximum rated pressure. This is probably why you are not finding published information for it. Using a powder that is too slow can result in barrel ringing (bore expansion) so it is best to use something better suited to it. If you get some N560, it appears from QuickLOAD that you can use a charge that is 98% of the charges Vihtavuori lists for the 200 grain Sierra bullet.

Enjoy the rifle!

[Saguaro 66]

Holly Toledo that was bad news ....

Nevertheless, Unclenick, I do appreciate your input very much.

I could get n160 and n550 if I do lost of driving .

I ntend to use this beautiful Sako mostly with bullets in the .30 heavy side kind of 220. Grains. However I'd prefer a good powder specific for heavy bullets. I'm not interested in high velocities since most of the hunting in my area are below 100 meters approximately.
And moderate velocities are much better for meat preservation.

Thanks again !

[Saguaro 66]

There' is a reloading detall I'd like to understand

According to Vihtavuori the 80 g of N170 can push a 220gr at 2600 f/s on a 300 win mag case..
https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading.../?cartridge=25

Why not with a 300 H&H case considering it's got about the same volume ?

[Saguaro 66]

In other words... if the N170 is used for 220gr bullets in the American 300 why it's not appropriate for the venerable but not forgotten 300 British?

[Unclenick]

It's partly case geometry. Though there is only about 5 grains case water overflow capacity difference in the cases, a larger portion of that is in the neck of the H&H, so that when a bullet is seated in an average 300 Win Mag case, the actual powder space under the bullet is closer to 10% difference. (Though, I note the 300 Win Mag has more case capacity variation than most ammunition, ranging from 87.5 grains to 95.5 grains of water overflow capacity.) The 300 Win Mag also has a wider front body and sharper shoulder which tend to burn powder a little more efficiently.

I note that 220 grains is the only bullet weight for which N170 is listed in the Win Mag, so it is apparently right on the edge of practical for it.

In the H&H, N160 and N165 both appear to be good choices in a single-base powder. The higher energy N560 will give you a little more velocity for the same peak pressure if that matters to you.

[Saguaro 66]

Fascinating..... a case of geometry.....

So I'm going to have to hunt for the N160. I really dont need the extra speed of the N560 at the moment......... Still, Vihtavuori has no data for 220 gr Siera prohunter or any other 220 .grains bullet. Why ?

Can you please give me a reference data for the N160 with 220 gr RN ?

Thanks a lot for the ballistic explanation

[Dufus]

Just to throw it in the hat, I use N560 in my 30-06 load with the Woodleigh 240 gr bullet. It is an accurate load and going by Woodleigh's specifications for the bullet, the load is good to 190 yds at the velocity I get. Expansion is not there past that.

[Saguaro 66]

I have to admit than the Vihtavuori 500 series are tempting because the N560 fills the case more than the N160.

At the same time I reckon single base powder may be easier, less picky..... ? to reload for someone with substantially limited handloading experience .....

[Saguaro 66]

After this fascinating small class on internal ballistics even a hard head bloke like me understands that N170 is too slow for this almost forgotten British case.

It took me many hours to recognise my mistake and thanks God I did not try any reckless experemintation on my own.

Just a long drive on the snow but I got myself a nice package of Vihtavuori N160 , something not very easy to get in this part of the world.

I'll open a new topic for hanloadings for the 300 Holland and Holland in case there are more brass rats out there who want to explore this cartridge.

Thanks for your help.

[std7mag]

Saguaro,

Give Sierra a ring in the telly.
Great people, and very knowledgable. They are happy to help, even if your not shooting their bullets.

[Saguaro 66]

Interesting .... a few minutes before your post I did send a mail to Sierra Bullets, I'll open a new thread with the data.

Paul from Sierra answered very promptly, not like other companies which simply ignore the small costumers.
With Sierra nobody is left behind.... God Bless them !

[T. O'Heir]

"...on a .300 Win Mag case..." Doesn't matter what it does with a different cartridge.
There's no N170 data for the .300 H&H on Vihtavuori's site. Mind you, there's only 3 powders given for it at all. The .300 H&H isn't exactly common.
Best you contact 'em and ask. Or buy one of their manuals. There's a loading app on their site(under Resources) too if that helps.
https://www.vihtavuori.com/resources/contact-form/

[Saguaro 66]

Thanks T.O'Heir,

I have send 2 mails to Vihtavuori no answer yet, after more than 10 days.

I'm going to toy with the loading app, let's see....

BTW..... I really like this Sako rifle and this 300 H&H cartridge. Quite powerful but surprisingly low recoil, at least with 180 grain hot commercial french Sologne GPA ammo at 2900 fps

[Saguaro 66]

During all this time I have been hunting with this great rifle loaded with 220 Sierra pro hunter RN. Very good results with big difficult boars, one shot and a quick death.

I was using 66.2 gr of Vihta N-165 and getting about 2600 fps m.v. and complete expansion of the bullet at average 250 feet distance. When the shot is quartering and crossing over 30 inches of flesh the bullet doesn't exit, no problem, no blood trail tracking needed, quick and ethical hunting.

66.2 gr of Vihta N-165 is the maximum charge at Steve pages (56.3 the minimum), the only published data I found with this combination.

Sorry to insist but I must find out if I can fill this big case with a slower powder:
There is still room in the case to add extra 12 grains of of powder, so... can you guys help me to find out if I could use a slower powder like the N-170 and fill the case for the 220
I'm aware there is no published data for this cartridge/powder combo. 12 grains free space is a lot considering that N-170 is just the next steep from N-165.

Anybody knows if 79 grains of N-170, filling the case, are enough to move the 220's at a proper velocity over 2600 fps?
I just don't like to have so much free space using the maximum charge of 66 grains with N-165.
What's the point in having a big case if not to fill it with good powder?

Help welcome