Cultural exchanges are not always good.

Pond, James Pond · November 10, 2015, 03:40 PM

Learnt a few things about myself today and a few lessons about what to do.

I had a rather unpleasant experience with a couple of locals today, particularly one of them.

Where I work, there is a back courtyard parking area. To reach the road, you exit the carpark, turn left and you then reach a main road which is one-way only with both lanes coming from the left.

So I drove out, down the access road to the main road, indicated right and watched left for a suitable gap in the traffic. I was in first gear, with the car bumper at the edge of the main road, ready to pull out.

I saw a gap and eased out the clutch, looking round to the right to see the road I was about to drive onto, only to see two guys just walking in front of my car. I slammed on the brakes (I was not moving at more than walking pace). One of them slapped my car bonnet and gesticulated to say “what the heck are you doing?!” I responded saying “why the hell are you walking in front a car about to pull out: go behind it!!”

He continued around then turned sharply and grabbed my car door, opened it and confronted me.

He proceeded to mouth off at me. I just kept telling him to get away from my car. After what felt like eternity but was probably only 10 seconds, his buddy pulled him away.

Now a few facts and observations about the exchange and my situation:

Firstly, I was not carrying. I had pepper-spray, but that was in my coat pocket, on the side of the open door. I was belted into my seat and so relatively immobile.
I also lacked one of the best means of diffusing a situation: communications. He was shouting at me in Russian and I was responding in English. My tone was not aggressive but nor was it friendly. It was firm. His body language and tone was aggressive, but to be honest, Russian always sounds aggressive to me. He did not appear to be armed with anything other than fists and an attitude but together they can be quite devastating. Finally, it really happened fast.

So what have I learnt?

First and foremost, I think carrying more often is in order. Because of where my work takes me that is not always possible but, by Jove, it will be more possible from now on!! (Smartcarry, here I come!) I'm not saying drawing here would have been my choice, but it could have spiralled really fast and if someone is trying to drag me out of a car and onto the ground….

Secondly, I'm going to drive with my doors locked. Furthermore, situational awareness is hard work. Keeping an eye on traffic and on passersby is no easy task.

Bottom line is, I was 100% focussed on the road, and didn't see them approach. I had the time it took him to walk around the car to formulate a plan.

So what do I think I could have done differently?

Well, I've mulled over some of my options. But, all in all, given that no one got hurt, other than Pond-Pride, I think it worked out ok, but I doubt very much of that is due to my astute handling of the situation. I didn't escalate it once the door was open, although I could have de-escalated it earlier by being apologetic before it even got that far. Whilst, I think what they did smacks of surgically-removed common sense, if you lack the language to say so, it might be better to let them think they made their point. Pond-Pride, as you can imagine, mutters under its breath at the thought! All hindsight, though.

I could have driven away but this could have had major repercussions: had I just gone, I might have pulled out in front of on coming traffic. Had I reversed, I would surely have sent him flying. Karma, some may say, but that would have opened a can of worms. Yes, I might have been able to prove that I feared for my safety (and I did, TBH), but then again I might not. What he did, did leave me feeling pretty violated, though.
I guess the other option would have been pepper-spray, but that was in the wrong pocket. Had he got physical, I would have probably gone for that, but at the time, I got that tunnel-vision thing that people talk about where I could only focus on the threat: I remember thinking afterwards, that the spray hadn't occurred to me during the event!

Well, I don't know what I hope to get from posting this other than, perhaps someone being able to take some lessons from my incident and consider how they might react. Perhaps some members have suggestions for the future: but just remember, though, this is Estonia so Castle-doctrines, SYG and lots of self-defence cases are not the general rule and so don't apply.

I still think it is bloody stupid to walk in front of a car, right to left, when it is indicating right and the driver is looking left, with its nose edging into the road. But then it is stupid to yank open the car door of a complete stranger, so why am I surprised?

Ultimately, the whole sorry episode worked out well as neither of us got hurt and he and I can continue our respective lives. One as an idiot and the other as a forum-socialite. So all's well that end's well, but I am very aware that this outcome is, for a large part, down to luck and the intervention of his buddy and probably not mine: I don't want to solely rely on aggressor's friends for my well-being.

zincwarrior · November 10, 2015, 04:23 PM

Where are you at that he's talking in Russian at you? I'd have been "This is America! shut up and speak Spanish like the rest of us!"

lock your car doors.

Glenn E. Meyer · November 10, 2015, 04:29 PM

Zinc - you haven't following Mr. Pond. He lives in a Baltic country IIRC.

Ha!

zincwarrior · November 10, 2015, 04:33 PM

Well then as an American Ambassador he should have cussed the guy out in the finest Mexican accented Spanish.

1. Yes lock doors!
2. I don't know about unnamed Baltic nation cough **Is that Dracula's Castle? Uh Oh*** but I know from videos that Russian drivers are crazy and tend to pull out weapons to deal Russian Justice! So be careful and even more polite???

3. Alternatively, bring extra vodka. When in doubt offer a drink.

aarondhgraham · November 10, 2015, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Well then as an American Ambassador he should have...

I believe Mr. Pond (dead giveaway there) is British,,,
Living and working in Estonia.

Aarond

.

DaleA · November 10, 2015, 06:13 PM

Zinc-it might not be your day...or maybe it's just your day to be corrected.

But I'm glad you posted what you did because there are a lot of new folk and even older folk that don't know PJP's situation and now because of your posts we do.

P.S. One of his really irritating restrictions where he lives is that there is a (small) limit to the number of guns he can own and now, if he wants to get a new gun he has to get rid of an old gun.

P.P.S. One of my totally RATIONAL fears is to run afoul of the legal system in a foreign country. I'm glad everything turned out okay for PJP.

jmhyer · November 10, 2015, 06:49 PM

Glad you're ok.

Yes... Doors always locked. That probably would have a been a sufficient deterrent. If he hadn't been able to easily open your door, you might have been able to ignore his verbal rants long enough to watch for a break in traffic and just drive away. Finally, have your firearm with you every time you can legally do so and keep it on your person so, if you are dragged out of the vehicle, it will come with you. And definitely keep more ready access to a less-than-lethal alternative (pepper spray or taser).

James K · November 10, 2015, 07:02 PM

It doesn't hurt to know enough of the local language(s) to be able to say "Sorry, my fault" or make suitable gestures to that effect. Even if you feel you are in the right, apologizing is a lot better than getting involved in a fight, or worse a shooting, in any country, including the U.S.

BTW, slapping the car hood (British "bonnet") is a common European way of telling the driver he has done something wrong or stupid. Cops do it all the time, and pedestrians, too. Americans don't usually do that - flipping the bird or a spoken cuss word are the more common American responses.

Jim

FITASC · November 10, 2015, 07:07 PM

Quote:

First and foremost

LOCK your car doors

sliponby · November 10, 2015, 08:18 PM

Boy-some of you guys are worst than a nagging wife.

He did say that he "learnt" to lock his doors.

mete · November 10, 2015, 08:22 PM

James K ---many years ago in my hometown of Brooklyn a traffic cop wanted toget the attention of a driver who was not alert. With his nightstick he tapped on the windsheild .But somethong was wrong with the glass and it shattered with just that light blow !

Prof Young · November 10, 2015, 08:42 PM

A few years back I was a pedestrian in London. As I approached an alley a car turned into the alley and came so close to the pedestrians ahead of me that she hit one with her mirror. The driver stopped and jumped out and instead of apologizing yelled at the pedestrians as it was their fault. (Yeah, I know this is supposed to be about guns. Sorry.)

Live well, be safe
Prof Young

HiBC · November 10, 2015, 09:29 PM

Mr Pond,The man opened your car door.

If you had put your foot or feet on the ground to exit your car,a common tactic for him to use against you would be violently slamming the car door on your leg...5 or 6 times!!

Something else to be aware of.

And,if the weather is nice,and your window is down,you can be dragged through it.

Big Shrek · November 10, 2015, 09:40 PM

We Americans and some Aussies, have a lovely thing called a Cow Catcher, or Roo - Bar, as the case may be...
a large set of bull bars to protect the front of your vehicle from meaty problems

SPEEDBUMP!!
Guarantee NOBODY walks in front of something like this!

In reality, do what the Russians do, and we are increasingly doing...get a DASHCAM!!

In case of altercation, or actual mpact, or lawsuit, you can prove yourself not at fault!!

Slimjim9 · November 10, 2015, 10:25 PM

Quote:

I think it is bloody stupid to walk in front of a car, right to left, when it is indicating right and the driver is looking left, with its nose edging into the road. But then it is stupid to yank open the car door of a complete stranger

Both those actions were stupid I agree. It sounds like the hood slap was "culturally appropriate" in some sense, but I don't understand the yank open the door unless you're trying to provoke a bigger confrontation. Good job on not taking the bait.

You've already mentioned your two mistakes- unlocked door and not looking right. Who was more wrong? He was more wrong but you were wrong first - the pedestrian always has the right of way. Glad you made it through unscathed.

Pond, James Pond · November 11, 2015, 12:51 AM

Quote:

It doesn't hurt to know enough of the local language(s) to be able to say "Sorry, my fault" or make suitable gestures to that effect.

Just to clarify, had it been an Estonian, I could have discussed it with them. Russian is a local language, but not the local language. Sadly, many Russians have lived here their whole lives and never learnt a single word....

Quote:

Both those actions were stupid I agree. It sounds like the hood slap was "culturally appropriate" in some sense, but I don't understand the yank open the door unless you're trying to provoke a bigger confrontation. Good job on not taking the bait.

You've already mentioned your two mistakes- unlocked door and not looking right. Who was more wrong? He was more wrong but you were wrong first - the pedestrian always has the right of way. Glad you made it through unscathed.

Culturally appropriate? Well, perhaps for Russians, but less so for Estonians. Every time, I've had verbal abuse or some expression of anger since I've been here it's been from a Russian. They are generally more hot-headed....

That sums up one of the cultural challenges of being a State recovering from Soviet occupation. Generally Russians and Estonians are like oil and water. Very different and so very separate. Integration is very hard in this respect. Many Russians have managed and many, many more (most) are super-nice people with a ready laugh and smile.

There are a few who spoil that experience...

JimPage · November 11, 2015, 08:29 AM

"Just to clarify, had it been an Estonian, I could have discussed it with them. Russian is a local language, but not the local language. Sadly, many Russians have lived here their whole lives and never learnt a single word...."

sounds like many Hispanics in the U.S.

Moonglum · November 11, 2015, 11:13 AM

Quote:

I saw a gap and eased out the clutch, looking round to the right to see the road I was about to drive onto, only to see two guys just walking in front of my car. I slammed on the brakes (I was not moving at more than walking pace). One of them slapped my car bonnet and gesticulated to say “what the heck are you doing?!” I responded saying “why the hell are you walking in front a car about to pull out: go behind it!!”

With all due respect I'd be willing to bet that had you kept your mouth shut right there the incident would have ended without any further interaction.

I'm very careful about how I interact with people I don't know especially when I'm armed because right or wrong I can't afford an altercation.

In the situation you describe I would have said "sorry man." and let the guy go.

**44 AMP** · November 11, 2015, 11:47 AM

Bad tempers transcend cultures. Bad manners can be very cultural.

You learned some valuable lessons. Glad you are ok.

Needing a gun (or just wanting one) and not having one is much worse than having one and not needing it.

People behave differently when they think you don't understand their language. And another set of attitudes comes into play when they don't understand your language.

In my area, the other language common is Mexican (aka "bad Spanish" according to friend of mine from Castile, who is proud of Spanish nobility in his blood).

Often (and I've had it happen numerous times) when I reply to the bad Spanish with my bad German, the person who "didn't understand English", gets a puzzled look, then tries speaking "bad" English to me...

The trick seems to be to make your first reply to them in something OTHER than the English they expect, kind of pulls the rug out from under them when they are all primed to "no habla" English despite the fact that they do.

Not sure what variant of this would work in your location, James, perhaps a string of well rehearsed Cantonese would be equally culturally shocking in your setting??

Be armed when you can be, be ALERT always. Best Wishes!

F. Guffey · November 11, 2015, 12:57 PM

Quote:

I don't want to solely rely on aggressor's friends for my well-being.

I was in Selma when the march began, I was in Montgomery when the march cam to an end. There were 4 of them. One of them thought they had their hands full and the other three did not care.

F. Guffey

Skans · November 11, 2015, 01:52 PM

A foreigner in a former Soviet country - not sure how that would work out if you did decide to use a gun (or pepper spray) in that situation. I'm surprised that you can carry a gun there unless you are in law enforcement.

It ain't easy being a foreigner in another country - do you really have any choice other than politeness and retreat? Practically speaking, I don't think so.

JERRYS. · November 11, 2015, 02:06 PM

as a brit I figured you would have told him to get his whistle and flute, go apple and pears then bob's your uncle.

that oughta leave him scratching his melon a minute while you make your get-a-way.

zukiphile · November 11, 2015, 03:01 PM

I don't know that vehicles actually make people less smart; it may just be that we witness a lot of dopey behavior around them.

In the states, a tremendous number of outstanding arrest warrants are for assaults that started as traffic problems. Here, people use their car horns so infrequently that when one does use them, the target may take it as an invitation to a fight.

The amount of counterproductive, petty and puerile behavior I see on my way in and out of the city every day is noteworthy. People will position themselves so as to intentionally prevent other people from getting somewhere. I have had pedestrians step out in front of my car and wondered if they were trying to get me to hit them.

One truly terrifying aspect of being a driver is the degree to which one can be blind to anything but other cars. In the morning, a lot of people along the lake are jogging, and they often seem too comfortable in their assumption that all drivers have seen and noticed them.

F. Guffey · November 11, 2015, 03:40 PM

Quote:

In the states, a tremendous number of outstanding arrest warrants are for assaults that started as traffic problems. Here, people use their car horns so infrequently that when one does use them, the target may take it as an invitation to a fight.

With the exception of the area around Boston, when in Boston remember, it is something their auto does to your auto, nothing personal.

F. Guffey

Scouse · November 11, 2015, 04:30 PM

Glad you are ok Pond.

On the cultural differences thing, I would point out that banging on someone's car bonnet/hood is a pretty damn aggressive thing to do in the UK, Mr Pond's homeland, too. Perhaps more so than in parts of continental Europe, mind. Reminds me of the cultural differences that exist with spitting at people, amongst other things - Southern European derived cultures, not the end of the world, in the English speaking world it is akin to a declaration of war.

I would take getting my door opened by someone angry as an assault in itself. Frankly, I would think they were planning to drag me out for the purposes of kicking my head in. Hence, doors always locked so it can't happen, and if it ever did, burning rubber in whichever direction is doable ASAP.

Worth remembering to leave yourself space to manoeuvre with the car in front when in traffic, too - not always possible if in multiple lanes, but a good general rule, I find.

November 10, 2015, 03:40 PM	#1
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	Cultural exchanges are not always good. Learnt a few things about myself today and a few lessons about what to do. I had a rather unpleasant experience with a couple of locals today, particularly one of them. Where I work, there is a back courtyard parking area. To reach the road, you exit the carpark, turn left and you then reach a main road which is one-way only with both lanes coming from the left. So I drove out, down the access road to the main road, indicated right and watched left for a suitable gap in the traffic. I was in first gear, with the car bumper at the edge of the main road, ready to pull out. I saw a gap and eased out the clutch, looking round to the right to see the road I was about to drive onto, only to see two guys just walking in front of my car. I slammed on the brakes (I was not moving at more than walking pace). One of them slapped my car bonnet and gesticulated to say “what the heck are you doing?!” I responded saying “why the hell are you walking in front a car about to pull out: go behind it!!” He continued around then turned sharply and grabbed my car door, opened it and confronted me. He proceeded to mouth off at me. I just kept telling him to get away from my car. After what felt like eternity but was probably only 10 seconds, his buddy pulled him away. Now a few facts and observations about the exchange and my situation: Firstly, I was not carrying. I had pepper-spray, but that was in my coat pocket, on the side of the open door. I was belted into my seat and so relatively immobile. I also lacked one of the best means of diffusing a situation: communications. He was shouting at me in Russian and I was responding in English. My tone was not aggressive but nor was it friendly. It was firm. His body language and tone was aggressive, but to be honest, Russian always sounds aggressive to me. He did not appear to be armed with anything other than fists and an attitude but together they can be quite devastating. Finally, it really happened fast. So what have I learnt? First and foremost, I think carrying more often is in order. Because of where my work takes me that is not always possible but, by Jove, it will be more possible from now on!! (Smartcarry, here I come!) I'm not saying drawing here would have been my choice, but it could have spiralled really fast and if someone is trying to drag me out of a car and onto the ground…. Secondly, I'm going to drive with my doors locked. Furthermore, situational awareness is hard work. Keeping an eye on traffic and on passersby is no easy task. Bottom line is, I was 100% focussed on the road, and didn't see them approach. I had the time it took him to walk around the car to formulate a plan. So what do I think I could have done differently? Well, I've mulled over some of my options. But, all in all, given that no one got hurt, other than Pond-Pride, I think it worked out ok, but I doubt very much of that is due to my astute handling of the situation. I didn't escalate it once the door was open, although I could have de-escalated it earlier by being apologetic before it even got that far. Whilst, I think what they did smacks of surgically-removed common sense, if you lack the language to say so, it might be better to let them think they made their point. Pond-Pride, as you can imagine, mutters under its breath at the thought! All hindsight, though. I could have driven away but this could have had major repercussions: had I just gone, I might have pulled out in front of on coming traffic. Had I reversed, I would surely have sent him flying. Karma, some may say, but that would have opened a can of worms. Yes, I might have been able to prove that I feared for my safety (and I did, TBH), but then again I might not. What he did, did leave me feeling pretty violated, though. I guess the other option would have been pepper-spray, but that was in the wrong pocket. Had he got physical, I would have probably gone for that, but at the time, I got that tunnel-vision thing that people talk about where I could only focus on the threat: I remember thinking afterwards, that the spray hadn't occurred to me during the event! Well, I don't know what I hope to get from posting this other than, perhaps someone being able to take some lessons from my incident and consider how they might react. Perhaps some members have suggestions for the future: but just remember, though, this is Estonia so Castle-doctrines, SYG and lots of self-defence cases are not the general rule and so don't apply. I still think it is bloody stupid to walk in front of a car, right to left, when it is indicating right and the driver is looking left, with its nose edging into the road. But then it is stupid to yank open the car door of a complete stranger, so why am I surprised? Ultimately, the whole sorry episode worked out well as neither of us got hurt and he and I can continue our respective lives. One as an idiot and the other as a forum-socialite. So all's well that end's well, but I am very aware that this outcome is, for a large part, down to luck and the intervention of his buddy and probably not mine: I don't want to solely rely on aggressor's friends for my well-being. __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.

November 10, 2015, 04:29 PM	#3
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Zinc - you haven't following Mr. Pond. He lives in a Baltic country IIRC. Ha! __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

November 10, 2015, 08:18 PM	#10
sliponby Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 187	Boy-some of you guys are worst than a nagging wife. He did say that he "learnt" to lock his doors. __________________ No one prays harder for peace than the soldier. *"We Dare Defend Our Rights",* Alabama State Motto...

November 10, 2015, 08:22 PM	#11
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	James K ---many years ago in my hometown of Brooklyn a traffic cop wanted toget the attention of a driver who was not alert. With his nightstick he tapped on the windsheild .But somethong was wrong with the glass and it shattered with just that light blow ! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

November 10, 2015, 08:42 PM	#12
Prof Young Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Illinois - down state Posts: 2,404	People are crazy . . . . A few years back I was a pedestrian in London. As I approached an alley a car turned into the alley and came so close to the pedestrians ahead of me that she hit one with her mirror. The driver stopped and jumped out and instead of apologizing yelled at the pedestrians as it was their fault. (Yeah, I know this is supposed to be about guns. Sorry.) Live well, be safe Prof Young

November 10, 2015, 04:23 PM	#2
zincwarrior Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex Posts: 2,259	Where are you at that he's talking in Russian at you? I'd have been "This is America! shut up and speak Spanish like the rest of us!" lock your car doors.

November 10, 2015, 04:33 PM	#4
zincwarrior Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex Posts: 2,259	Well then as an American Ambassador he should have cussed the guy out in the finest Mexican accented Spanish. 1. Yes lock doors! 2. I don't know about unnamed Baltic nation cough Is that Dracula's Castle? Uh Oh* but I know from videos that Russian drivers are crazy and tend to pull out weapons to deal Russian Justice! So be careful and even more polite??? 3. Alternatively, bring extra vodka. When in doubt offer a drink.

November 10, 2015, 06:13 PM	#6
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,313	Zinc-it might not be your day...or maybe it's just your day to be corrected. But I'm glad you posted what you did because there are a lot of new folk and even older folk that don't know PJP's situation and now because of your posts we do. P.S. One of his really irritating restrictions where he lives is that there is a (small) limit to the number of guns he can own and now, if he wants to get a new gun he has to get rid of an old gun. P.P.S. One of my totally RATIONAL fears is to run afoul of the legal system in a foreign country. I'm glad everything turned out okay for PJP.

November 10, 2015, 06:49 PM	#7
jmhyer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2012 Location: MS - USA Posts: 899	Glad you're ok. Yes... Doors always locked. That probably would have a been a sufficient deterrent. If he hadn't been able to easily open your door, you might have been able to ignore his verbal rants long enough to watch for a break in traffic and just drive away. Finally, have your firearm with you every time you can legally do so and keep it on your person so, if you are dragged out of the vehicle, it will come with you. And definitely keep more ready access to a less-than-lethal alternative (pepper spray or taser).

November 10, 2015, 07:02 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It doesn't hurt to know enough of the local language(s) to be able to say "Sorry, my fault" or make suitable gestures to that effect. Even if you feel you are in the right, apologizing is a lot better than getting involved in a fight, or worse a shooting, in any country, including the U.S. BTW, slapping the car hood (British "bonnet") is a common European way of telling the driver he has done something wrong or stupid. Cops do it all the time, and pedestrians, too. Americans don't usually do that - flipping the bird or a spoken cuss word are the more common American responses. Jim

November 10, 2015, 09:29 PM	#13
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	Mr Pond,The man opened your car door. If you had put your foot or feet on the ground to exit your car,a common tactic for him to use against you would be violently slamming the car door on your leg...5 or 6 times!! Something else to be aware of. And,if the weather is nice,and your window is down,you can be dragged through it.

November 10, 2015, 09:40 PM	#14
Big Shrek Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: NorthWest Florida Posts: 1,358	We Americans and some Aussies, have a lovely thing called a Cow Catcher, or Roo - Bar, as the case may be... a large set of bull bars to protect the front of your vehicle from meaty problems SPEEDBUMP!! Guarantee NOBODY walks in front of something like this! In reality, do what the Russians do, and we are increasingly doing...get a DASHCAM!! In case of altercation, or actual mpact, or lawsuit, you can prove yourself not at fault!! __________________ Marlin Specialist Calico Specialist A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool.

November 11, 2015, 08:29 AM	#17
JimPage Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2010 Location: Rome, NY Posts: 941	"Just to clarify, had it been an Estonian, I could have discussed it with them. Russian is a local language, but not the local language. Sadly, many Russians have lived here their whole lives and never learnt a single word...." sounds like many Hispanics in the U.S. __________________ Jim Page Cogito, ergo armatum sum

November 11, 2015, 11:47 AM	#19
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	Bad tempers transcend cultures. Bad manners can be very cultural. You learned some valuable lessons. Glad you are ok. Needing a gun (or just wanting one) and not having one is much worse than having one and not needing it. People behave differently when they think you don't understand their language. And another set of attitudes comes into play when they don't understand your language. In my area, the other language common is Mexican (aka "bad Spanish" according to friend of mine from Castile, who is proud of Spanish nobility in his blood). Often (and I've had it happen numerous times) when I reply to the bad Spanish with my bad German, the person who "didn't understand English", gets a puzzled look, then tries speaking "bad" English to me... The trick seems to be to make your first reply to them in something OTHER than the English they expect, kind of pulls the rug out from under them when they are all primed to "no habla" English despite the fact that they do. Not sure what variant of this would work in your location, James, perhaps a string of well rehearsed Cantonese would be equally culturally shocking in your setting?? Be armed when you can be, be ALERT always. Best Wishes! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 11, 2015, 01:52 PM	#21
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	A foreigner in a former Soviet country - not sure how that would work out if you did decide to use a gun (or pepper spray) in that situation. I'm surprised that you can carry a gun there unless you are in law enforcement. It ain't easy being a foreigner in another country - do you really have any choice other than politeness and retreat? Practically speaking, I don't think so.

November 11, 2015, 02:06 PM	#22
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,969	as a brit I figured you would have told him to get his whistle and flute, go apple and pears then bob's your uncle. that oughta leave him scratching his melon a minute while you make your get-a-way.

November 11, 2015, 03:01 PM	#23
zukiphile Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2005 Posts: 4,461	I don't know that vehicles actually make people less smart; it may just be that we witness a lot of dopey behavior around them. In the states, a tremendous number of outstanding arrest warrants are for assaults that started as traffic problems. Here, people use their car horns so infrequently that when one does use them, the target may take it as an invitation to a fight. The amount of counterproductive, petty and puerile behavior I see on my way in and out of the city every day is noteworthy. People will position themselves so as to intentionally prevent other people from getting somewhere. I have had pedestrians step out in front of my car and wondered if they were trying to get me to hit them. One truly terrifying aspect of being a driver is the degree to which one can be blind to anything but other cars. In the morning, a lot of people along the lake are jogging, and they often seem too comfortable in their assumption that all drivers have seen and noticed them. __________________ http://www.npboards.com/index.php

November 11, 2015, 04:30 PM	#25
Scouse Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2011 Posts: 133	Glad you are ok Pond. On the cultural differences thing, I would point out that banging on someone's car bonnet/hood is a pretty damn aggressive thing to do in the UK, Mr Pond's homeland, too. Perhaps more so than in parts of continental Europe, mind. Reminds me of the cultural differences that exist with spitting at people, amongst other things - Southern European derived cultures, not the end of the world, in the English speaking world it is akin to a declaration of war. I would take getting my door opened by someone angry as an assault in itself. Frankly, I would think they were planning to drag me out for the purposes of kicking my head in. Hence, doors always locked so it can't happen, and if it ever did, burning rubber in whichever direction is doable ASAP. Worth remembering to leave yourself space to manoeuvre with the car in front when in traffic, too - not always possible if in multiple lanes, but a good general rule, I find.