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Old February 9, 2018, 05:19 AM   #1
chrisintexas
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JSP bullets?

Please explain what JSP bullets are and what is their intended use.
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Old February 9, 2018, 05:29 AM   #2
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Second best to JHP, were they (JHP) are not allowed?
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Old February 9, 2018, 05:38 AM   #3
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A soft-point bullet (SP), also known as a soft-nosed bullet, is a jacketed expanding bullet with a soft metal core enclosed by a stronger metal jacket left open at the forward tip. A soft-point bullet is intended to expand upon striking flesh to cause a wound diameter greater than the bullet diameter. Jacketed soft point is usually abbreviated JSP in the ammunition and reloading industry.
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Old February 9, 2018, 09:08 AM   #4
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JSPs are generally used for hunting. While they expand, their expansion is more controlled and less likely to fragment, while giving deeper penetration than JHPs. This is a general statement, not all JSPs and JHPs are built the same. Just cause it has a hole in the end doesn't mean it has extreme expansion and just because it doesn't have a hole in the end doesn't mean it won't fragment. Jacket thickness and alloy has just as much to do with expansion as design.
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Old February 9, 2018, 09:49 AM   #5
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In addition to having different expansion characteristics, JSP bullets tend to have better aerodynamics, particularly in pistol calibers where the bullet is relatively wide in relation to its length. JSPs are also more massive for a bullet with the same outer dimensions, which again tends to augment penetration.

On the flip side of the ballistics argument, one advantage of JHP bullets is that the hollow cavity at the front shifts the bullet's center of mass towards the rear, which promotes stability at long range. This is why many modern match rifle bullets are JHP.
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Old February 9, 2018, 07:33 PM   #6
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JSP's are common in some calibers like .357 Mag...as target ammo ...I see them all the time in MagTech ..as an example .../ in fact I also reload a 158gr JSP as well in .357 Mag and in .38 spl ( bullets are from Montana Gold )...

So for me, I consider the 158 gr JSP in .357 Mag...a general use cartridge. I shoot about 6,000 - 8,000 of them a year at my local range.
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Old February 9, 2018, 09:01 PM   #7
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Here's a good example of the difference between JSP and JHP in Hornady's XTP bullet line for .357 caliber. I've shot quite a few deer with the .357mag using a number of different handguns and a few with .357mag rifles. Very rarely does the JHP exit the deer when shot at any distance or at any angle. Simply changing to the JSP has permitted over half the hits to exit the animal due to deeper penetration. Both bullets work well and I've never lost a single deer with either bullet in .357mag. The JHP opens up quite a bit in a very short distance. The JSP will also open up quite a bit, but it needs to go further to do so. That's an apples vs apples comparison. I'm not sure one is any better than the other based on a large sample size (50+). I think increased muzzle velocity could give the nod to the JSP, especially in larger game.
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Old February 10, 2018, 02:36 AM   #8
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JSP bullets are also sometimes used by police agencies in an attempt to reduce the danger of ricochet when JHP bullets are unavailable or "politically incorrect" I've shot Hirteberger 9mm 100 gr JSP that I suspect was made for this very purpose.

You see, when a JSP bullet hits something hard like cement or metal at an oblique angle, the soft nose is more likely to "bite in" and deform rather than ricochet like a FMJ (especially one with a round or pointed nose) is likely to.
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Old February 10, 2018, 03:04 AM   #9
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I think increased muzzle velocity could give the nod to the JSP, especially in larger game.
What increased velocity? A 158gr bullet is a 158gr bullet. Now, if you are talking about the rounder nose of a JSP giving it a slightly higher retention of velocity, at extreme range, you can measure it, but I believe that the difference is essentially insignificant.

One other advantage to the JSP not yet mentioned is that a JSP of a certain design may feed better in a semi auto than some designs of JHP.

This is particularly important when shooting older guns, designed before JHPs were commonly loaded. Like the WWII milsurps, and similar era designs.
New shooters today have no idea how lucky they are to have so much available. There was a time, a long time when the only ammo for semi autos was FMJ. Nothing else in semi auto cartridges came from the ammo makers, except some target ammo, and some of that was FJM SWC.

Handloaders could get JHP and JSP bullets though. But with the designs available, many semi autos just wouldn't feed HP ammo without the attention of a good gunsmith, and sometimes not even then.

If you could find a JSP that would feed in your 1911A1, Luger, P.38, or Hi Power when hollow points wouldn't, you were still a long way ahead of FMJ ammo.

Some JSPs wouldn't feed all that well in some guns, either, all depending on the gun, and the nose profile of the bullet, how much lead exposed, where, etc.

Modern designs are made from the start to feed JHP ammo, at least in the more common nose profiles, and its expected by the customers. That wasn't always the case.
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Old February 10, 2018, 03:43 AM   #10
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What increased velocity? A 158gr bullet is a 158gr bullet.
Yes, that's correct. I meant that by driving the JSP bullet to an increased velocity (over the JHP) it would perform better by penetrating deeper while still expanding. The JHP opens too quickly when driven at increasingly higher velocities. I was referring to "controlled expansion" of the JSP over the JHP.
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Old February 10, 2018, 04:40 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by NoSecondBest View Post
Here's a good example of the difference between JSP and JHP in Hornady's XTP bullet line for .357 caliber.
Hornady does not offer a 158gr JSP in their XTP line in .357 caliber. They do offer a a 158gr XTP-FP, which still is a HP, but designed for higher velocities and deeper penetration than their standard XTP-HP. It differs from a true JSP because it has no exposed lead. It is my preferred bullet for hunting deer with my .357 carbine.

To add to the confusion some companies offer a SJHP..........
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Old February 10, 2018, 07:32 AM   #12
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"What increased velocity? A 158gr bullet is a 158gr bullet."

Well, not exactly. Velocity is important and possibly the MOST important factor. Unless specifically designed to expand at a low velocity, many JSP bullets simply rivet and pretend to be a FMJ.
For instance, a 158 JSP bullet that expands well at velocities delivered by a 6" 357 magnum is no better than FMJ at the velocity delivered by a 2" 38SP.
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Old February 10, 2018, 10:05 AM   #13
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I've shot quite a few deer with Hornday XTP bullets in 357mag. The difference in performance between the XTP JSP and the XTP JHP is quite a bit at the same velocity. The JHP expands rapidly and the JSP penetrates deeper with a bit less expansion. To make this answer simpler, using these two bullets on a deer, and hitting them in the same spot at the same distance, the JSP will give more penetration. It's not that difficult to understand and it doesn't require telling anyone how to make a watch if they ask you what time it is. Apples vs Apples applies to using Hornady XTP bullets in this example. Both are excellent on deer by the way. Hitting where you're aiming in a hanggun......that's a different story.
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Old February 10, 2018, 10:41 AM   #14
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I've shot quite a few deer with Hornday XTP bullets in 357mag. The difference in performance between the XTP JSP and the XTP JHP is quite a bit at the same velocity.
As already correctly pointed out, Hornady does not make an XTP "JSP"...

The actual name is FP/XTP, and there is no exposed lead other than a small 'hollow point'...
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Old February 10, 2018, 10:56 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by NoSecondBest View Post
The difference in performance between the XTP JSP and the XTP JHP is quite a bit at the same velocity. The JHP expands rapidly and the JSP penetrates deeper with a bit less expansion. .
Again.....there is no such thing as a XTP-JSP in .38/.357. I assume this is what you are referring to as their JSP.....no exposed lead and a hollow point.
https://www.hornady.com/bullets/hand...8-gr-fp-xtp#!/

Here is a pic both of Hornady's 158 gr offerings for .38/357. Both look basically identical. If you look close, you see the XTP-FP on the right has a slightly smaller HP cavity....but you have to look close. This is what I meant in my first post about jacket thickness, alloy and design being just as important as a hole in the tip when it comes to expansion. I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, only trying not to confuse the OP even more. If he does not really know the difference between a JSP and a JHP now, telling him another bullet with a HP without an exposed lead tip is still called a JSP, will probably confuse him more. Again, what determines a JSP is generally a exposed soft tip, that, while aiding to expansion, is also encased in a thick jacket to avoid extreme expansion and fragmentation. Still even more confusing are JSPs with a hollow point.....and then calling bullets FMJ even when the jacket does not extend over the base of the bullet.
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Old February 10, 2018, 07:06 PM   #16
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Old February 10, 2018, 07:26 PM   #17
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Hornady does not offer a 158gr JSP in their XTP line in .357 caliber. They do offer a a 158gr XTP-FP, which still is a HP, but designed for higher velocities and deeper penetration than their standard XTP-HP. It differs from a true JSP because it has no exposed lead. It is my preferred bullet for hunting deer with my .357 carbine.
That's my experience as well. That Flat Point XTP acts like a soft point on deer (deeper penetration at carbine speeds).

Remington's 158 gr SP and JHP's react similarly...the HP version opening faster than the SP at identical velocities.

I've used both Remington SP's and JHP"s as well as Hornady XTP's of both FP and HP construction and can see no difference at carbine velocities.

For handgun use, I choose the JHP's from both makes for quick expansion in my 4" Smith M-19 & 3" Smith M-60. I load for 1200 fps using those bullets and have had no problems with them failing to expand in water, water filled plastic jugs, and in several raccoons and opossums shot here on the farm. I also finished one deer, wounded by a guest during this past season and found that expansion was more than adequate...8" passing through the upper neck, breaking a part of the spine and exiting the front of the throat. Muzzle velocity was ~1200 fps from my M-19 and the deer was shot at ~20 yds.

HTH's Rod
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Old February 10, 2018, 08:35 PM   #18
chrisintexas
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Federal Premium vital-shok 10mm 180 grain trophy bonded JSP
The maker says its good on hogs, deer and bears.
So this JSP will also penetrate and kill a bear?
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Old February 10, 2018, 10:10 PM   #19
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What kind of bear? small black bear? Those things unless I am mistaken have vital areas very similar to a big deer. They do have a lot of fat, which is pretty much invisible to bullets, so you can really just call it a wash. SMALL black bear. It would also be about the same as hitting a sizeable hog in the vitals.

I'm of the thought that the 10 mm auto in a soft point 180 would be okay for any of the three in a broadside shot, but I think that it's going to be the bottom tier of what I would want to be shooting them with. Maybe I'm wrong on whether the ten is an appropriate round for that, but take my word for it, this federal round is probably the best 10 mm round for that purpose.
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Old February 11, 2018, 08:48 AM   #20
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When hiking out near where I live I carry .40 Buffalo Bore 200 gr HC-FN in a Beretta PX4. If I go into Shoshone/Custer National forests I will carry a .44 mag with Cor-bon 320 gr HC-FN.

And regardless of where, a large can of bear spray. And yes, it works, I have used two cans on grizzlies and never had to use a gun.
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Old February 11, 2018, 09:37 AM   #21
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I can't imagine even a grizzly not responding properly to pepper spray. Literally blinded, unable to smell, hurt and discombobulated, if that doesn't stop the attack, I don't know what will. Bears have been known to shrug off bullets. People have been known to miss, or forget the safety under the stress that a close range charging can present. God almighty, would I remember to cock a super Blackhawk?

I think that personally I would leave the safety off when I went out. The nice thing about bear spray is that you get a direct hit zone and a fog zone.

My father was fishing in a remote area of Yellowstone, a big grizzly charged him and gave him a mighty big whomp and knocked him down into four feet or so of water.

If it happened to him, does that mean that I might have the same thing happen, or does it lessen the chance even further? I just found the news clipping again a few weeks ago. You should have seen that thing. They had to kill it, he did it with a .357.
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Old February 11, 2018, 09:39 AM   #22
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I suspect that stepping aside after macing a bear could help a bit if it fails to stop.
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Old February 11, 2018, 10:59 AM   #23
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A hollow point is a bullet with a lead core an an empty space. The empty space does two things. It weakens the bullet and makes it easier to squash and spread outward, and the empty socket allows water to force it outward as well as keep it from collapsing inward.

That's a really simplistic answer.

A soft point pistol bullet works very differently. You have a lead core that is squashed and as it is smashed, it expands outward, popping open the metal jacket. The lead core is flattened and spread out, simply by impact on whatever it hits.

The hollow point is inherently weaker because the soft point is a solid plug of lead. the soft point doesn't have the empty cavity to hold that core together, it has a head start on popping open.

A soft point of similar alloy and design will not expand as easily as a hollow point at the same velocities, a soft point expands properly at the higher ranges of suggested velocities. A hollow point will expand better at the lower ranges. At low velocities the soft point will fail to expand, at high velocities, the hollow point will over expand and probably break up.

When you see a rifle bullet, they are almost all soft point, unless they have a tip insert. One of the ways that a low velocity rifle is compensated for is by loading it with a big, flat soft point bullet, and quite often, it has exposed lead to start expansion more reliably. High velocity rounds that are intended for heavy game are almost always made with small points, and fully enclosed cores, it takes a lot more energy to break them open.
Lotta general statements there, some confusing one too. While most HPs are deigned for more rapid expansion, some are made that way for ballistics. Many are the HP handgun bullets I use at the range which their manufacturer clearly states are nor designed to expand. Got some HP .45ACP plated bullets that don't expand anymore when hitting a hard rock maple bowling pin than my FMJs. There are JSPs with segmented jackets that will expand just as fast as many HPs at similar velocities. I have two types of 300 gr XTP-HPs I use in my .460s. Both look exactly the same(like the 158 grainers for .357 I showed in a previous post), but both are designed for entirely different velocities and purposes, and expand appropriately. Claiming the hole in front makes for a faster expanding bullet is not always true. The definition of a JSP is having a exposed tip made of a softer material than the jacket. A jacketed bullet(those used by civilians) is generally always a lead core surrounded by a harder alloy jacket. Exception would be steel core. HPs, unlike JSPs, may or may not have a exposed tip of softer metal(lead). FMJs can have a flat nose or pointed.......and pointed or flat makes little or no difference in expansion rates. The flat points are either for better holes in paper, protection for primers in tube feed mags, or for a larger meplat in hard cast bullets not meant to expand.

In the past, other than milsurp, rifle bullets have been mostly JSPs, because most states demand one use an expanding type bullet for hunting, and the majority of folks use factory loaded ammo. Go to any gun range nowadays and you are just as likely to see FMJ type ammo used for plinking/tarket shooting as JSPs, especially those using AR type platforms. Look at the inventory in big box stores today, and the stacks of FMJ rifle ammo generally outnumbers the stacks of JSPs.

My point is, while one may assume one type of bullet expands more at a lower velocity than another, it is not always true. It takes more than just looking at a bullet to know it's real potential for either expansion or penetration. This is where experience, manufacturer suggestions and designations shines. Hornady is good with their handgun ammo by providing a recommended velocity chart showing at which velocities their handgun bullets work best for. Other manufacturers have symbols, charts or pictures on their boxes showing what game/use their ammo is designed for.

But again to answer the OPs question, a JSP is a jacketed bullet with an exposed tip of it's softer core metal. It's use is whatever the bullet is designed for. Only thing more confusing than bullet types to new shooters is caliber designations........
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Old February 11, 2018, 11:17 AM   #24
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Old February 11, 2018, 12:50 PM   #25
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A JSP is a JHP without the HP. Sierra calls a jacketed SP with a hollow point a Hollow Cavity. And a jacketed bullet without the bit of lead sticking out a JHP. Usage is the same as an HP. Whole thing has to do with controlled expansion.
"...penetrate and kill a bear?..." Depends on the shot placement and the bear.
"...modern match rifle bullets are JHP..." They're not. JHP's are designed to expand rapidly upon impact. An HPBT is not.
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