Identify True Grit gun

[SonOfScubaDiver]

On Sunday my son and his girlfriend came over to watch John Wayne movies. We ended up watching the 1969 classic, True Grit. Anyway, none of us could identify the gun Kim Darby's character inherited from her father, but we thought it was really cool. It is this huge revolver with a huge cylinder. Can any of you tell me what kind of gun that is?

[Cheapshooter]

Colt Walker. Largest of the cap and ball revolvers. The "44 Magnum" of it's day.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Walker

[Mk VII]

Wayne's character identifies it as a Colt Dragoon, but it appears, from the lack of a rammer catch, to be a Walker (which were actually much scarcer).

[DPris]

Converted to fire blanks for the movie.
Denis

[SonOfScubaDiver]

Ok. Good deal. I will look up the Colt Walker and Colt Dragoon on YT. Thanks!

[Bob Wright]

Converted to fire blanks for the movie.
Denis

Are you saying its a cartridge conversion?

Bob Wright

I looked at stills from both versions, the 1969 and the 2010 version. In the original with John Wayne, it was a Colt Walker replica. In the remake it is a Colt Dragoon. From the views I could not see that it was a conversion or not. It is clearly not loaded with a bullet, anyway, the chambers are empty.

In the story of making the film, the Colt Walker was emphatically chosen to emphasize Kim Darby's small size. And Rooster's referring to the gun as a "Dragoon" was not a goof, as all those big Colts were referred to as Dragoon Pistols at the time. More often than not as "Army Pistols" and after the Model 1860 they were called Old Model Army.

[SonOfScubaDiver]

wow. Just watched Hickok45's video on this gun. It's neater than poop! Uberti makes a replica for right at $450. I believe I have found a new gun to add to my wishlist. Of course, I will have to learn how to load the thing properly, but from what I saw on the video, it should add to the fun. It's amazing how far guns have come in just the last hundred years or so.

[Sharkbite]

I eat at the “True grit” cafe in Ridgway, Co. So named for the movie being partially filmed there. LOTS of the Duke’s stuff on the wall.

Cool flick...

[DPris]

Bob,
I'm saying it was converted to fire blanks for the movie.
I don't know if it could use live ammo or not.
Denis

[Cheapshooter]

The movie gun, also used in The Outlaw Josey Wales is in the NRA National Sporting Arms Museum in Springfield, MO.
http://www.nramuseum.org/the-museum/...969)-colt.aspx

[Mk VII]

It was not uncommon, at that time, for movie muzzle-loader revolvers to be altered for metallic cartridge blanks, just as you can also see 45/70 Springfields with false flint locks on the side. It was logistically easier and the audience was unlikely to notice. One of Eastwood's early Italian Westerns has something similar, can't remember which one.

[DPris]

As you can see in the close-up: No nipples.
Not knowing which blanks were used (probably 5-in-ones) it wouldn't necessarily be capable of actually chambering a live round.
Denis

[74A95]

Movie guns can be found here: http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/True_Grit_(1969)

[DPris]

Some of us were around in '69 & remember discussion back then.
Denis

[Bob Wright]

Bob,
I'm saying it was converted to fire blanks for the movie.
I don't know if it could use live ammo or not.
Denis

As you can see in the close-up: No nipples.
Not knowing which blanks were used (probably 5-in-ones) it wouldn't necessarily be capable of actually chambering a live round.
Denis

You seem to have answered my question. What I was getting at was if the cap-and-ball gun were just loaded with a powder charge, cap and wad, or if the cylinder were altered to take blank cartridges.

Without nipples evident, it appears to be a cartridge conversion then.

Bob Wright

[DPris]

Best I can say is the gun was altered to fire blanks, which are self-contained & not powder, cap, and wad.
If doing just powder & wad, no need for any conversion at all & it wouldn't be firing blanks.

Quite possible to build a cylinder that'd chamber blanks, but not actual live rounds.
Would've been no need for it, as a prop gun, to be capable of firing a projectile.
Denis

[Cheapshooter]

Just watched Hickok45's video on this gun. It's neater than poop! Uberti makes a replica for right at $450. I believe I have found a new gun to add to my wishlist.

Sportsman's Guide has them for $430, $387 for SG buyers club members. Not sure what shipping would be. But, the BATF does not recognize black powder, cap & ball or muzzleloaders as firearms There for you can order one to be sent direct to you.
State laws may restrict it however. Depending where you live.
Been thinking about getting the old Lyman 1858 Remington out, and bustin' a few caps. Now you really got me thinking about getting the Walker I wanted long ago.
Not a lot to learn. I think they have "modernized" a few things since my smoke making hobby days. Something about wad over the powder instead of the old traditional grease over the ball. These kids now days are afraid of a little mess.
Just remember to clean it good. Hot, soapy water like with corrosive ammo. Black powder will rust it up pretty quick. Not sure about the modern imitation stuff. If I want retro, I want retro!
Billowing clouds of smoke, grease, and soot.

[CLYA]

Midway has the Walker on sale for $369.99 at this moment. I picked up the Dragoon at a local store today, for a fair price that was cheaper than most internet sellers. But the Midway Walker price is $30 cheaper than my local outlet.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Cheapshooter

Colt Walker. Largest of the cap and ball revolvers. The "44 Magnum" of it's day.

Not just the .44 Magnum "of it's day." IIRC, the Walker Colt remained the most powerful handgun ever made, right up until the introduction of the .44 Magnum. Not to shabby for an old cap-n-ball revolver.

[SonOfScubaDiver]

Fill your hands you sob! Best line of the whole movie! Heheee Love me some JW.

Anyway, I've been at Midway's site checking out what they offer. I'm definitely going to get one, but I'm not sure which one just yet. I found out that original version had issues with the rod coming down while firing and that's why the latch was added. I also found out that I know very little about cap and ball loading, equipment, etc. So, I have more to think about than just the gun itself. I know what I'm going to be doing over the weekend--watching cap and ball YT videos!

[DPris]

The Walker's biggest drawback was that floppy ram.
The Dragoon fixed it.
Denis

[Cheapshooter]

I found out that original version had issues with the rod coming down while firing

The Walker's biggest drawback was that floppy ram

But for a range boomer what difference does that make? To me not enough to not have a replica of the biggest revolver Colt made.
A lot about shooting BP takes a little extra effort. Even a PITA at times. But it sure is fun!

[SonOfScubaDiver]

Cheapshooter, I have to admit that I'm excited about getting into this type of shooting. I already have plans on getting a replica 45 and a replica lever action rifle, so getting a Walker or Dragoon fits that whole idea. At any rate, I really appreciate the responses on this thread. I suppose I could have googled the movie to find out what that gun was, but I really like chatting about guns on this site.

[DPris]

By all means, get one if it appeals.

I just find the necessity of having to swing the ram back up between shots to free up the cylinder for rotation/cocking a major buzzkill in shooting.

It's an undeniable classic Colt evolutionary design, but the Dragoon was a much better choice with its latched ram on a gun you might be shooting much.

Kinda a rough parallel to the leverguns: The 1860 Henry was a ground-breaker in repeating rifles, but the 1866 Winchester was a great improvement in practicality.
Denis

[Bob Wright]

DPris:
Kinda a rough parallel to the leverguns: The 1860 Henry was a ground-breaker in repeating rifles, but the 1866 Winchester was a great improvement in practicality.
Denis

In the same way the Sharps was an improvement over the Hawken: They didn't have to be turned muzzle up to reload.


Bob Wright