Webley MK IV Issues

jason.h · November 25, 2017, 11:08 PM

Hello, I purchased a Webley Mk iv from the late 60's and have noticed some problems.
First off it was extremely inaccurate sometimes shooting high/low/left/right a matter of a few feet.
I also noticed what I think are some small lead shavings in the barrel I am shooting LRN Ammo.
I looked at the primers and noticed that the firing pin was not hitting them in the center.

I have taken it to a gunsmith who insisted nothing was wrong. But I can see that when the hammer is back, the cylinder in not completely in line with the barrel. There is little to no play in the cylinder, so the point at which the cylinder is locking is off.

I am thinking of buying another cylinder, barrel, or trigger for the revolver hopping that if I swap out the parts I can get it to work properly. Is this a good idea?
Also my revolver has a 4" barrel, I am seeing 5" barrel for sale, is there any harm in using a longer barrel?

Thanks!

**44 AMP** · November 26, 2017, 01:44 AM

Quote:

a Webley Mk iv from the late 60's

If you are correct on the gun's identification, you are off just a bit on the date. The gun may have come to the US in the late 60s, but it was made much, much earlier. The MK VI (mark 6) was adopted in 1915, MK IV (mark 4) went out of production much earlier.

I'll check my references tomorrow, but off the top of my head, I do not think the Webley Mk IV is safe with smokeless powder ammo. What are you shooting out of it??

Shaving lead, and being visibly not lined up means the revolver is badly out of time. If your gunsmith can't see that, you need a different gunsmith.

Parts are what and where you find them, and basically come from other guns no longer serviceable. There are no "new" parts, haven't been since before WW I. And, they aren't just "plug and play", fitting, by a COMPETENT gunsmith will be required.

All the Webley's Mk I-VI were made for a ".455" round, of the approximately the same dimensions, (some were shorter) but the British used several different names for the rounds, depending on what they were loaded with, black powder, cordite, or smokeless. I believe only the Mk V and Mk VI are rated for smokeless powder. I'll do some checking, and have more info tomorrow.

Is it possible you have misidentified the gun??

darkgael · November 26, 2017, 05:46 AM

Quote:

All the Webley's Mk I-VI were made for a ".455" round, of the approximately the same dimensions, (some were shorter) but the British used several different names for the rounds, depending on what they were loaded with, black powder, cordite, or smokeless

Though the Mk. IV (adopted 1899) was originally chambered for the .455 cartridge, after WWI the Webley Mk.IV was chambered for the .38/200 cartridge (1932 to end of production in the early 1960s). The cartridge is the same dimensionally as the .38 S&W.
Pete

T. O'Heir · November 26, 2017, 12:48 PM

Milsurps can just be like that. There are a couple variations of the Mk IV. First, chambered in .455 Webley, was introduced in 1899. Later redesigned and chambered in .38/200(just a .38 S&W with a 200 grain LRN bullet). Both (the Brits never threw anything out.)replaced by the BHP in 1963.
Production of 'em stopped in 1923, so your revolver is at least 94 years old. It's just worn.
"...thinking of buying another..." Any parts will be old too. With no guarantee they're not worn as well. And you'll have to find 'em.(Gunparts has some, but no cylinders, trigger hands or hinge pin screws. This last part might be the cause of the accuracy issue.) They'll all require fitting by a smithy who knows Webley's too. Those guys are few and very far between. Kind of suspect fixing it will cost more than the thing is worth.

**44 AMP** · November 26, 2017, 10:46 PM

I had to check a couple things, and will admit my mind just kind of automatically went to the old Mk IV, and didn't think of the later .38 Mk IV until after it had already been mentioned.

The .38 (.380 revolver, .38/200) is a different gun than the .455 Mk IV. it's not the same gun chambered in .38, its a different, smaller gun, which the British ALSO named Webley, Mk IV.

they were made in both 4 and 5 inch barrel lengths.

production of the .38 Webley did continue into the 60s, but few were made after the British adopted the 9mm, there were few customers.

Parts are, as with the older gun, where and as you find them, though there were more .38s made so there are more parts around.

HOWEVER, as I said before, you need the skill of a good gunsmith, one who understands the timing of Webleys, or is patient and willing to experiment and learn. They average guy who builds AR and does some work on rifles probably isn't up to the task. And, good professionals for this kind of rare work won't be cheap.

Expense wise, (even if you find someone up to the job) you might well be better off finding and buying another Webley that is still in proper working order.

Good Luck!

MagnumWill · November 27, 2017, 12:38 PM

It still sounds like it’s out of time to me. A shaved bullet + inconsistent rifling contact sounds like your accuracy issue.

It may look like it’s lined up, but once you unload it, pull the trigger and hold it down. Does the cylinder wiggle at all in any direction? Check side-to side as well as up-and-down.

James K · November 28, 2017, 10:12 PM

Once again the evil "mark" strikes. "Mark" is simply a term used by the British (and sometimes the U.S. Navy) to designate different models and the term is synonymous with "Model". So "Mark" is meaningless without a base model designation, sort of like saying the WWII Thompson SMG is the same as the Garand rifle because both are designated "M1".

The Mk IV (Gov't designation) .450/.455 revolver adopted in 1899 was a very different revolver from the Webley MkIV (Webley company designation) of the 1930's. The British government just before WWII adopted the Enfield revolver (similar to the Webley Mk IV but not the same) but then was forced to buy and use the Webley Mk IV anyway due to the need for revolvers.

While wartime production had a lot of problems, it seems unlikely that any revolver so much out of alignment would have passed inspection. Unfortunately, I can't really help without seeing the gun. With an old gun like that, many things can be wrong, including a defective cylinder, defective or bent frame, gun made from reject parts, frame cracked and badly repaired, etc., etc.

November 25, 2017, 11:08 PM	#1
jason.h Member Join Date: January 20, 2016 Posts: 44	Webley MK IV Issues Hello, I purchased a Webley Mk iv from the late 60's and have noticed some problems. First off it was extremely inaccurate sometimes shooting high/low/left/right a matter of a few feet. I also noticed what I think are some small lead shavings in the barrel I am shooting LRN Ammo. I looked at the primers and noticed that the firing pin was not hitting them in the center. I have taken it to a gunsmith who insisted nothing was wrong. But I can see that when the hammer is back, the cylinder in not completely in line with the barrel. There is little to no play in the cylinder, so the point at which the cylinder is locking is off. I am thinking of buying another cylinder, barrel, or trigger for the revolver hopping that if I swap out the parts I can get it to work properly. Is this a good idea? Also my revolver has a 4" barrel, I am seeing 5" barrel for sale, is there any harm in using a longer barrel? Thanks!

November 26, 2017, 12:48 PM	#4
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Milsurps can just be like that. There are a couple variations of the Mk IV. First, chambered in .455 Webley, was introduced in 1899. Later redesigned and chambered in .38/200(just a .38 S&W with a 200 grain LRN bullet). Both (the Brits never threw anything out.)replaced by the BHP in 1963. Production of 'em stopped in 1923, so your revolver is at least 94 years old. It's just worn. "...thinking of buying another..." Any parts will be old too. With no guarantee they're not worn as well. And you'll have to find 'em.(Gunparts has some, but no cylinders, trigger hands or hinge pin screws. This last part might be the cause of the accuracy issue.) They'll all require fitting by a smithy who knows Webley's too. Those guys are few and very far between. Kind of suspect fixing it will cost more than the thing is worth. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

November 26, 2017, 10:46 PM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,812	I had to check a couple things, and will admit my mind just kind of automatically went to the old Mk IV, and didn't think of the later .38 Mk IV until after it had already been mentioned. The .38 (.380 revolver, .38/200) is a different gun than the .455 Mk IV. it's not the same gun chambered in .38, its a different, smaller gun, which the British ALSO named Webley, Mk IV. they were made in both 4 and 5 inch barrel lengths. production of the .38 Webley did continue into the 60s, but few were made after the British adopted the 9mm, there were few customers. Parts are, as with the older gun, where and as you find them, though there were more .38s made so there are more parts around. HOWEVER, as I said before, you need the skill of a good gunsmith, one who understands the timing of Webleys, or is patient and willing to experiment and learn. They average guy who builds AR and does some work on rifles probably isn't up to the task. And, good professionals for this kind of rare work won't be cheap. Expense wise, (even if you find someone up to the job) you might well be better off finding and buying another Webley that is still in proper working order. Good Luck! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 27, 2017, 12:38 PM	#6
MagnumWill Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Location: Central Colorado Posts: 1,001	It still sounds like it’s out of time to me. A shaved bullet + inconsistent rifling contact sounds like your accuracy issue. It may look like it’s lined up, but once you unload it, pull the trigger and hold it down. Does the cylinder wiggle at all in any direction? Check side-to side as well as up-and-down. __________________ Those who hammer their swords into plow shares will plow for those who didn't...

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

November 28, 2017, 10:12 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Once again the evil "mark" strikes. "Mark" is simply a term used by the British (and sometimes the U.S. Navy) to designate different models and the term is synonymous with "Model". So "Mark" is meaningless without a base model designation, sort of like saying the WWII Thompson SMG is the same as the Garand rifle because both are designated "M1". The Mk IV (Gov't designation) .450/.455 revolver adopted in 1899 was a very different revolver from the Webley MkIV (Webley company designation) of the 1930's. The British government just before WWII adopted the Enfield revolver (similar to the Webley Mk IV but not the same) but then was forced to buy and use the Webley Mk IV anyway due to the need for revolvers. While wartime production had a lot of problems, it seems unlikely that any revolver so much out of alignment would have passed inspection. Unfortunately, I can't really help without seeing the gun. With an old gun like that, many things can be wrong, including a defective cylinder, defective or bent frame, gun made from reject parts, frame cracked and badly repaired, etc., etc.