Ever heard of this shootout in South Africa?

Hotel9 · August 4, 2002, 04:20 AM

In 1993 I was involved in a shootout with 5 trained commandos, 3 had AKM`s and the other 2 had handguns. I was a police officer then serving in the dog unit and I caught them in the act of robbing a payroll...a large scale gunfight erupted which lasted about 90 seconds.
At the end of the day I had fired all 60 rnds from my pistol [a Beretta 92 clone] and killed 2, wounded 2 and one got away.
92 empty AK casings were found along with a few spare mags.

I wrote the story for Guns and weapons for LE and wondered if anyone had any comments.
Rgards,
Lance Marshall.

kobun · August 5, 2002, 07:26 PM

I have in fact read several of your stories.
They make good points for carrying more ammo than you think you need.
But, after reading about your experiences, I see a valid point for having a shotgun or rifle in the car.
I'm happy that you didn't get hurt though.

Maby you can helpe me out:
I'm coming down to RSA for the Worldshoot in Pietersburg.
-What exactly is the laws conserning carrying a gun?
-When is it "appropriete" to draw a gun in self defense? Does one have to actually be attacked?
-I'll be renting a car with some friends. Anything in particular I should be on the lookout for?
-Is it legal to carry a pocket knife?
-And, what are the laws conserning semi-auto rifles. Especially those with short barrels?

Some questions might sound dumb, but I'd prefer to know what to expect.
It's better to be prepared you know.

Thanks
K.

Hotel9 · August 5, 2002, 11:06 PM

Yes I am a firm believer in carrying extra ammo on the belt and in the vehicle....as well as having a fair knowledge of some of the weapons youre likely to come up against in case you ever need to use one of your opponents guns,haha!
Normally if I have a partner then they carry the LM-5 which is a SA made Galil .223 with a shortened barrel...
In SA the laws are :
It must be concealed
You must carry your licence or permit on you.
You may only use your weapon if there is immediate danger to yourself or another person, and may not shoot if there is no threat to you or the other person.
Carrying a knife is legal,no problem there.
Semi auto rifles...very difficult to get a licence for unless a collector or you own a security company.
While driving, keep the doors locked and the windows up, watch out for people waiting near the robots or for people who accidently bump your car.
Keep your cameras or flashy goods hidden.
Do not give to the beggars, haha!
Any other info I`ll be glad to offer assistance!
While youre here if you hit difficulties please phone me on 083 777 4225 [cell] and I`ll give you a hand. I`m in Durban but have contacts ...
Regards,
Lance

**Rich Lucibella** · August 6, 2002, 07:03 AM

I read it. It was a great piece. Shoulda been in S.W.A.T.!
Rich

Hotel9 · August 6, 2002, 11:37 AM

Hey there Rich, I`m honored to have a reply by the MAN himself!
Send me your snail mail adress and I`ll mail you a copy of the story to publish if you want.
I have the luck of always running into the BG`s at the right time and have been involved in a number of shootings this side, well, more than the average police officer anyway...the Zulus here call me "Moobie" which means "UGLY" in Zulu...hahaha!!
I`m currently working as a firearms instructor for the Metro Police in Durban, South Africa...I think of myself more as a circus trainer though, haha!!
Regards,
Lance Marshall
[email protected]

**Rich Lucibella** · August 6, 2002, 11:51 AM

Print it? You mean "reprint it"...no?
Thanks, but I don't think so.

But, I'm confused. We had a couple of email exchanges last year, as I recall. One was a case of someone here who hadn't refunded your money; another had to do with problems I had transporting firearms to RSA. Was it in that context that I read your article? Or did I see it in print?
Rich

Hotel9 · August 6, 2002, 12:08 PM

Hi Rich, yes we were in contact last year sometime about a certain individual who was taking me for a small time ride and when he found out I was in contact with you he promptly paid up and we called it quits...haha!!
The story was published by Guns and Weapons for LE a while back...
You may have read an article of a suspect that was shot nine times and survived...that was the last shooting I was involved in where the most wanted criminal in the province drew on my partner in a routine stop and search. I was in court for that shooting a few weeks back .
Regards,
Lance

Denny Hansen · August 6, 2002, 12:13 PM

Hotel9,

Hi Lance!
If you have any new articles I'd be glad to look at them.

We ran a story a few years back on the Durban dog unit written by Paul Kirk, a freelance writer.

Denny

Hotel9 · August 6, 2002, 10:55 PM

Hi Denny...yes the DBN dog unit has a pretty good reputation, but dog unit is not the place to be these days after the Mozambicans were shown on national tv getting mauled by certain dog unit members!
Send you snail mail adress and I`ll mail you whatever I have for your perusal.
Regards,
Lance

DEPUTY · August 7, 2002, 04:55 AM

a old friend of mine worked those units back then he was a dog handler last name naude

Hotel9 · August 7, 2002, 09:53 AM

Sorry I dont know him...I worked for the local protection services dog unit which was municipal and then changed to Metro Police.
Your friend was obviously with the South African Police which is Government.
Regards,
Lance

1911greg · August 7, 2002, 05:09 PM

is there anywhere online where I can read about this shootout?

thanks,
greg

Jhp147 · August 8, 2002, 09:01 AM

Good to see you back on the boards!
Got any more good pics? Hope you and yours are safe and careful.
Signed,
Your E-mail contact in Texas....

Hotel9 · August 8, 2002, 10:35 AM

Greg, email me [email protected] I`ll scan the story and email it to you,no problemo!
Regards,
Lance

Hotel9 · August 8, 2002, 10:39 AM

Howdy ther Texas buddy...sorry no more nice pics since the last shooting...been working in the training dept and only get to punch holes in cardboard now...which is not altogether bad as there is no limit on the amount of ammo I use every day, haha!
Regards,
Lance

August 4, 2002, 04:20 AM	#1
Hotel9 Member Join Date: September 8, 2001 Location: Durban,South Africa Posts: 15	Ever heard of this shootout in South Africa? In 1993 I was involved in a shootout with 5 trained commandos, 3 had AKM`s and the other 2 had handguns. I was a police officer then serving in the dog unit and I caught them in the act of robbing a payroll...a large scale gunfight erupted which lasted about 90 seconds. At the end of the day I had fired all 60 rnds from my pistol [a Beretta 92 clone] and killed 2, wounded 2 and one got away. 92 empty AK casings were found along with a few spare mags. I wrote the story for Guns and weapons for LE and wondered if anyone had any comments. Rgards, Lance Marshall.

August 5, 2002, 07:26 PM	#2
kobun Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2002 Location: On top of a big pile of ammo Posts: 148	I have in fact read several of your stories. They make good points for carrying more ammo than you think you need. But, after reading about your experiences, I see a valid point for having a shotgun or rifle in the car. I'm happy that you didn't get hurt though. Maby you can helpe me out: I'm coming down to RSA for the Worldshoot in Pietersburg. -What exactly is the laws conserning carrying a gun? -When is it "appropriete" to draw a gun in self defense? Does one have to actually be attacked? -I'll be renting a car with some friends. Anything in particular I should be on the lookout for? -Is it legal to carry a pocket knife? -And, what are the laws conserning semi-auto rifles. Especially those with short barrels? Some questions might sound dumb, but I'd prefer to know what to expect. It's better to be prepared you know. Thanks K. __________________ "A broken heart heals faster than two broken knee-caps"

August 5, 2002, 11:06 PM	#3
Hotel9 Member Join Date: September 8, 2001 Location: Durban,South Africa Posts: 15	Stories... Yes I am a firm believer in carrying extra ammo on the belt and in the vehicle....as well as having a fair knowledge of some of the weapons youre likely to come up against in case you ever need to use one of your opponents guns,haha! Normally if I have a partner then they carry the LM-5 which is a SA made Galil .223 with a shortened barrel... In SA the laws are : It must be concealed You must carry your licence or permit on you. You may only use your weapon if there is immediate danger to yourself or another person, and may not shoot if there is no threat to you or the other person. Carrying a knife is legal,no problem there. Semi auto rifles...very difficult to get a licence for unless a collector or you own a security company. While driving, keep the doors locked and the windows up, watch out for people waiting near the robots or for people who accidently bump your car. Keep your cameras or flashy goods hidden. Do not give to the beggars, haha! Any other info I`ll be glad to offer assistance! While youre here if you hit difficulties please phone me on 083 777 4225 [cell] and I`ll give you a hand. I`m in Durban but have contacts ... Regards, Lance

August 6, 2002, 07:03 AM	#4
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	I read it. It was a great piece. Shoulda been in *S.W.A.T.! Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine* Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

August 6, 2002, 11:37 AM	#5
Hotel9 Member Join Date: September 8, 2001 Location: Durban,South Africa Posts: 15	The MAN himself.... Hey there Rich, I`m honored to have a reply by the MAN himself! Send me your snail mail adress and I`ll mail you a copy of the story to publish if you want. I have the luck of always running into the BG`s at the right time and have been involved in a number of shootings this side, well, more than the average police officer anyway...the Zulus here call me "Moobie" which means "UGLY" in Zulu...hahaha!! I`m currently working as a firearms instructor for the Metro Police in Durban, South Africa...I think of myself more as a circus trainer though, haha!! Regards, Lance Marshall [email protected]

August 6, 2002, 11:51 AM	#6
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Print it? You mean "reprint it"...no? Thanks, but I don't think so. But, I'm confused. We had a couple of email exchanges last year, as I recall. One was a case of someone here who hadn't refunded your money; another had to do with problems I had transporting firearms to RSA. Was it in that context that I read your article? Or did I see it in print? Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

August 6, 2002, 12:08 PM	#7
Hotel9 Member Join Date: September 8, 2001 Location: Durban,South Africa Posts: 15	Yes Hi Rich, yes we were in contact last year sometime about a certain individual who was taking me for a small time ride and when he found out I was in contact with you he promptly paid up and we called it quits...haha!! The story was published by Guns and Weapons for LE a while back... You may have read an article of a suspect that was shot nine times and survived...that was the last shooting I was involved in where the most wanted criminal in the province drew on my partner in a routine stop and search. I was in court for that shooting a few weeks back . Regards, Lance

August 6, 2002, 12:13 PM	#8
Denny Hansen Staff Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2001 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 2,422	Hotel9, Hi Lance! If you have any new articles I'd be glad to look at them. We ran a story a few years back on the Durban dog unit written by Paul Kirk, a freelance writer. Denny __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

August 6, 2002, 10:55 PM	#9
Hotel9 Member Join Date: September 8, 2001 Location: Durban,South Africa Posts: 15	Shootings Hi Denny...yes the DBN dog unit has a pretty good reputation, but dog unit is not the place to be these days after the Mozambicans were shown on national tv getting mauled by certain dog unit members! Send you snail mail adress and I`ll mail you whatever I have for your perusal. Regards, Lance

August 7, 2002, 04:55 AM	#10
DEPUTY Member Join Date: July 17, 2002 Location: MICHIGAN Posts: 50	a old friend of mine worked those units back then he was a dog handler last name naude __________________ FRONT SIGHT, PRESS

August 7, 2002, 09:53 AM	#11
Hotel9 Member Join Date: September 8, 2001 Location: Durban,South Africa Posts: 15	Dog unit Sorry I dont know him...I worked for the local protection services dog unit which was municipal and then changed to Metro Police. Your friend was obviously with the South African Police which is Government. Regards, Lance

August 7, 2002, 05:09 PM	#12
1911greg Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2002 Posts: 196	is there anywhere online where I can read about this shootout? thanks, greg

August 8, 2002, 09:01 AM	#13
Jhp147 Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 1999 Location: Texas Posts: 597	Hi Lance! Good to see you back on the boards! Got any more good pics? Hope you and yours are safe and careful. Signed, Your E-mail contact in Texas.... __________________ Sometimes...days are just something you get through.

August 8, 2002, 10:35 AM	#14
Hotel9 Member Join Date: September 8, 2001 Location: Durban,South Africa Posts: 15	Storie Greg, email me [email protected] I`ll scan the story and email it to you,no problemo! Regards, Lance

August 8, 2002, 10:39 AM	#15
Hotel9 Member Join Date: September 8, 2001 Location: Durban,South Africa Posts: 15	Pics... Howdy ther Texas buddy...sorry no more nice pics since the last shooting...been working in the training dept and only get to punch holes in cardboard now...which is not altogether bad as there is no limit on the amount of ammo I use every day, haha! Regards, Lance