325NG won't extract

Super Sneaky Steve · February 4, 2022, 07:58 PM

I've got a new to me 325 Night Guard. It's chambered in 45 Auto. I have some full moon clips and some two round moon clips. I've tried firing factory Winchester White box and even some very light hand loads (this thing KICKS!) No matter the combination extraction becomes impossible with thumb pressure.

Am I doing something wrong or does this need to go back to big blue?

**44 AMP** · February 5, 2022, 01:03 PM

You say extraction becomes impossible, what do you mean, exactly?

Are you saying extraction IS possible at first, then at some point later becomes impossible, or do you mean you can't get the empties out, at all ever, with just hand pressure on the exjector rod??

Either way, you need to call S&W and talk to them. New gun? Warranty??? factory ammo should NOT stick in the chambers.

Super Sneaky Steve · February 5, 2022, 01:39 PM

I always clean my guns and lube them after every range session. Sometimes I can get the first six out but the second six needs some help with a cleaning rod. I supposed if I oiled it after every six rounds maybe I wouldn't need the tool.

It's an old gun, but new to me. I'll open a ticket with S&W thanks for your response.

10-96 · February 5, 2022, 02:28 PM

Can you tell if the hangup is with the casings or the moon clip? It would be a crazy simple fix if the edge of the clips were hanging up on the edge of the ratchet star (probably not likely though).

Super Sneaky Steve · February 5, 2022, 05:17 PM

I have tried several different clips in both full and two round. All seemed to stick. I already emailed S&W and I'll probably get a label soon. I'm hoping they actually fix it and not just send it back.

I had a ruger in 45 Colt that has such tight throats that it would strip off all the bullet lube going through the throat and would splat on the target. I measured some chambers to be .449". Ruger said it was fine and send it back. I invested in a reamer and some guides and got them all to .4525. It came in handy because every Ruger in .45 was tight which included my Blackhawk, Redhawk and Vaquero.

totaldla · February 7, 2022, 12:06 PM

Titanium cylinder might work better if you (a) don't use a metal brush on it and (b) don't leave it oily.
I suspect that you're getting discoloration on the sides of the casings and that it cruding up the cylinders. My experience is nylon brush wrapped with a dry patch.
Also, it us not unusual with any revolver to use a firm whack on the ejector to clear the empties.

**44 AMP** · February 7, 2022, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Also, it us not unusual with any revolver to use a firm whack on the ejector to clear the empties.

While that is the way some people run them, if the revolver NEEDS a "firm wack" to extract the empties, something is wrong, either with the gun, the ammo or both.

What does S&W say?

totaldla · February 7, 2022, 10:11 PM

I just realized that the OP has a Night Guard, not a PD. The NG uses a stainless cylinder, not Titanium.

I suppose if one only shoots 38spl put-put loads the empties will fall out by gravity.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 7, 2022, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totaldla

I suppose if one only shoots 38spl put-put loads the empties will fall out by gravity.

Considering that the OP's gun is chambered in .45 ACP, I expect this is correct.

**Mal H** · February 8, 2022, 01:03 AM

They might even fall straight through the barrel unfired if you tilt it downward!

totaldla · February 8, 2022, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal H

They might even fall straight through the barrel unfired if you tilt it downward!

Funny! Good catch - I didn't realize how that would read when I wrote it. I used to shoot an old SW Model 10 where the empties would just fall out.

Super Sneaky Steve · February 8, 2022, 10:40 AM

Yes, the gun does have a SS cylinder. These empties are so hard to get out I would probably end up bending the rod.

It's currently on a Fed Ex truck back to S&W. I have had revolvers with one sticky chamber that I was able to polish but with this one it seems like they all stick and I don't want to remove that much metal myself.

Super Sneaky Steve · March 8, 2022, 04:17 PM

The gun just came back today. The repairs are confusing to me. Here's what they listed.

Cut Forcing Cone
Repair Yoke

How the forcing cone or yoke could cause sticky extraction is beyond me. Maybe the cone was too tight causing higher pressure? Maybe the yoke caused a timing issue? What do you guys think?

stinkeypete · March 8, 2022, 06:10 PM

I think we’ll find out after you shoot it!
It’s better to wonder why something IS working than to wonder why it’s not.

**44 AMP** · March 8, 2022, 11:00 PM

Maybe there was something with the forcing cone that they found which you hadn't noticed??

and, MAYBE they had to repair the yoke because someone bent it wacking on the ejector rod trying to remove stuck empties????

Didn't see where you mentioned it, and neglected to ask earlier, but did the ejector rod move freely when the gun was empty???

since it wasn't a new gun, there's no way to tell what a previous owner might have put it through...

Have seen a few guns go back to S&W over the years, and they've always been rather terse about what they did, and almost never said why they did what they did.

Worst one in that regard I saw in the early 80s. Guy got a brand new 629, with the long 8 3/8" barrel, one of their first unpinned guns. After about 600rnds (nearly all specials, less than a box of magnums) you could see the barrel was tilted. He sent it back and it came back with the barrel straight and a note said "no work done".....
He sold it soon after.

Super Sneaky Steve · March 9, 2022, 04:32 PM

Yes, it was a used gun but it didn't look very used. It's a wrist breaker so after a few cylinders most people would call it quits.

I didn't notice any damage. The rod worked fine. I didn't notice any lead splatter around the cone when using cast. When the cases did stick I didn't try smacking it. I got a cleaning rod and used that to knock them out.

I expected the chambers to be out of spec but they didn't say anything about doing work to them.

Hopefully I can get to the range this weekend and try it out. I'll report back.

Super Sneaky Steve · March 13, 2022, 02:07 PM

Well, I got it to the range today and it's a lot better but not what I'd call good.

I put about 8 cylinders through it and two of them I had to pound out. I did a cylinder of two shot clips and two came out easy but the third one needed help too.

My next option is to try AR brass which I have about 50 of. I've got a nice full wadcutter mould that I was meaning to pair with it. I want to have a nice light recoiling load that will still pass through the bad guy. I figure a 230gr wadcutter should do it loaded right.

Webleymkv · March 16, 2022, 10:27 AM

You might try shooting some of the same ammo without any clips (.45 ACP will still chamber, headspace and fire fine, the empties will just have to be plucked out individually). This would confirm or eliminate the clips as the problem as if the problem. Also if it is one or more chambers, plucking the empties out individually could help identify which chamber(s) is/are causing the problem.

Also, are you pointing the barrel straight up when you eject the empty cases? You mentioned that you're shooting WWB and light handloads. Depending on what powder you're using, loading very light can sometimes result in excessive amounts of unburnt powder. Likewise, in my experience, WWB is some of the dirtiest ammo available. Pointing the barrel straight up when ejecting empties helps any dirt or debris to fall out of the revolver rather than back into the chamber or, worse yet, under the extractor.

February 4, 2022, 07:58 PM	#1
Super Sneaky Steve Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,248	325NG won't extract I've got a new to me 325 Night Guard. It's chambered in 45 Auto. I have some full moon clips and some two round moon clips. I've tried firing factory Winchester White box and even some very light hand loads (this thing KICKS!) No matter the combination extraction becomes impossible with thumb pressure. Am I doing something wrong or does this need to go back to big blue?

February 5, 2022, 01:03 PM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,791	You say extraction becomes impossible, what do you mean, exactly? Are you saying extraction IS possible at first, then at some point later becomes impossible, or do you mean you can't get the empties out, at all ever, with just hand pressure on the exjector rod?? Either way, you need to call S&W and talk to them. New gun? Warranty??? factory ammo should NOT stick in the chambers. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 5, 2022, 02:28 PM	#4
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	Can you tell if the hangup is with the casings or the moon clip? It would be a crazy simple fix if the edge of the clips were hanging up on the edge of the ratchet star (probably not likely though). __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

February 7, 2022, 12:06 PM	#6
totaldla Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2009 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 1,289	Titanium cylinder might work better if you (a) don't use a metal brush on it and (b) don't leave it oily. I suspect that you're getting discoloration on the sides of the casings and that it cruding up the cylinders. My experience is nylon brush wrapped with a dry patch. Also, it us not unusual with any revolver to use a firm whack on the ejector to clear the empties. __________________ Lee Auto Bench Prime Castor Oil Case Lube

February 7, 2022, 10:11 PM	#8
totaldla Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2009 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 1,289	I just realized that the OP has a Night Guard, not a PD. The NG uses a stainless cylinder, not Titanium. I suppose if one only shoots 38spl put-put loads the empties will fall out by gravity. __________________ Lee Auto Bench Prime Castor Oil Case Lube

February 5, 2022, 01:39 PM	#3
Super Sneaky Steve Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,248	I always clean my guns and lube them after every range session. Sometimes I can get the first six out but the second six needs some help with a cleaning rod. I supposed if I oiled it after every six rounds maybe I wouldn't need the tool. It's an old gun, but new to me. I'll open a ticket with S&W thanks for your response.

February 5, 2022, 05:17 PM	#5
Super Sneaky Steve Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,248	I have tried several different clips in both full and two round. All seemed to stick. I already emailed S&W and I'll probably get a label soon. I'm hoping they actually fix it and not just send it back. I had a ruger in 45 Colt that has such tight throats that it would strip off all the bullet lube going through the throat and would splat on the target. I measured some chambers to be .449". Ruger said it was fine and send it back. I invested in a reamer and some guides and got them all to .4525. It came in handy because every Ruger in .45 was tight which included my Blackhawk, Redhawk and Vaquero.

February 8, 2022, 01:03 AM	#10
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,947	They might even fall straight through the barrel unfired if you tilt it downward!

February 8, 2022, 10:40 AM	#12
Super Sneaky Steve Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,248	Yes, the gun does have a SS cylinder. These empties are so hard to get out I would probably end up bending the rod. It's currently on a Fed Ex truck back to S&W. I have had revolvers with one sticky chamber that I was able to polish but with this one it seems like they all stick and I don't want to remove that much metal myself.

March 8, 2022, 04:17 PM	#13
Super Sneaky Steve Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,248	The gun just came back today. The repairs are confusing to me. Here's what they listed. Cut Forcing Cone Repair Yoke How the forcing cone or yoke could cause sticky extraction is beyond me. Maybe the cone was too tight causing higher pressure? Maybe the yoke caused a timing issue? What do you guys think?

March 8, 2022, 06:10 PM	#14
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,289	I think we’ll find out after you shoot it! It’s better to wonder why something IS working than to wonder why it’s not. __________________ My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon. Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.

March 8, 2022, 11:00 PM	#15
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,791	Maybe there was something with the forcing cone that they found which you hadn't noticed?? and, MAYBE they had to repair the yoke because someone bent it wacking on the ejector rod trying to remove stuck empties???? Didn't see where you mentioned it, and neglected to ask earlier, but did the ejector rod move freely when the gun was empty??? since it wasn't a new gun, there's no way to tell what a previous owner might have put it through... Have seen a few guns go back to S&W over the years, and they've always been rather terse about what they did, and almost never said why they did what they did. Worst one in that regard I saw in the early 80s. Guy got a brand new 629, with the long 8 3/8" barrel, one of their first unpinned guns. After about 600rnds (nearly all specials, less than a box of magnums) you could see the barrel was tilted. He sent it back and it came back with the barrel straight and a note said "no work done"..... He sold it soon after. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

March 9, 2022, 04:32 PM	#16
Super Sneaky Steve Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,248	Yes, it was a used gun but it didn't look very used. It's a wrist breaker so after a few cylinders most people would call it quits. I didn't notice any damage. The rod worked fine. I didn't notice any lead splatter around the cone when using cast. When the cases did stick I didn't try smacking it. I got a cleaning rod and used that to knock them out. I expected the chambers to be out of spec but they didn't say anything about doing work to them. Hopefully I can get to the range this weekend and try it out. I'll report back.

March 13, 2022, 02:07 PM	#17
Super Sneaky Steve Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,248	Well, I got it to the range today and it's a lot better but not what I'd call good. I put about 8 cylinders through it and two of them I had to pound out. I did a cylinder of two shot clips and two came out easy but the third one needed help too. My next option is to try AR brass which I have about 50 of. I've got a nice full wadcutter mould that I was meaning to pair with it. I want to have a nice light recoiling load that will still pass through the bad guy. I figure a 230gr wadcutter should do it loaded right.

March 16, 2022, 10:27 AM	#18
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	You might try shooting some of the same ammo without any clips (.45 ACP will still chamber, headspace and fire fine, the empties will just have to be plucked out individually). This would confirm or eliminate the clips as the problem as if the problem. Also if it is one or more chambers, plucking the empties out individually could help identify which chamber(s) is/are causing the problem. Also, are you pointing the barrel straight up when you eject the empty cases? You mentioned that you're shooting WWB and light handloads. Depending on what powder you're using, loading very light can sometimes result in excessive amounts of unburnt powder. Likewise, in my experience, WWB is some of the dirtiest ammo available. Pointing the barrel straight up when ejecting empties helps any dirt or debris to fall out of the revolver rather than back into the chamber or, worse yet, under the extractor.

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