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Old August 30, 2019, 03:34 PM   #101
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I agree. I think the jury was racist and reactionary
Are you saying the jury was not made up of his 'peers'? Was there more jurors of color than white?

The silver lining of this whole ordeal is that the shooter will definitely learn his lesson and will stop being aggressive and confronting people for committing minor infractions of parking laws.
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Old August 30, 2019, 03:34 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by ligonierbill
You've led a sheltered life.

***

I sincerely hope many of the posters here do take deep offense at my words.
Ad hominem and the expression of a hope to offend are not valuable analytical elements.
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Old August 30, 2019, 03:39 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by zincwarrior
Do you have a case where it went the other way?
Zimmerman
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Old August 30, 2019, 03:43 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by zincwarrior
Do you have a case where it went the other way?
A Florida case in which a defendant claimed self-defense in shooting an unarmed assailant? I believe the Zimmerman case was in Florida.

It wasn't a Florida case, but I believe part of the shooting of Michael Brown by Darren Wilson involved Brown first running from Wilson and then toward him.
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Old August 30, 2019, 03:49 PM   #105
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Where I come from what McGlockton did would be seen as unnecessary and cowardly.
We see things differently what he did yes, was unnecessary. Verbally abusing a woman and then shooting dead her partner, for me Trumps pushing someone in the unnecessary and cowardly acts. I wonder how brave he would have being seeking out confrontation if he was not armed. Again i am surprised some are defend this man and his actions, thankfully the jury did not.

Quote:
Drejka also said that his "pet peeve" was illegal parking in disabled spaces, and he admitted to police that he had frequently taken photos of offending cars.

Court documents revealed he had been accused as an aggressor in four other road incidents between 2012 and 2018. In three of them, prosecutors alleged that he threatened people with a gun.
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Old August 30, 2019, 03:50 PM   #106
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If you defend the shooter and do not take offense at my words, by which I attempted to show the evil intent of such actions, I suggest that you read them again.

Where in the world would you expect to berate a woman unknown to you and not get a response of some level of violence, be it only verbal, from her husband/boy friend? That place is sheltered from the real world.
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Old August 30, 2019, 04:02 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by manta49
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Where I come from what McGlockton did would be seen as unnecessary and cowardly.
We see things differently what he did yes, was unnecessary.
So, in that respect, you do not see it differently.

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Originally Posted by manta49
Again i am surprised some are defend this man and his actions, thankfully the jury did not.
I believe you confuse a question about his criminal culpability with a defense of his actions. An act can be unwise yet not criminal.

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Originally Posted by ligonierbill
Where in the world would you expect to berate a woman unknown to you and not get a response of some level of violence, be it only verbal, from her husband/boy friend? That place is sheltered from the real world.
Rather than try to offend, you might like to untangle your analysis. The violence in this episode was actual violence. One could reasonably expect an oral response, but that wouldn't be violent since it was just oral.

It's nice that you don't approve of yelling at women; I don't either. That itself shouldn't justify violence.
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Old August 30, 2019, 04:08 PM   #108
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I never said it did, but for me being pushed does not warrant shooting someone.
Given the violence of the initial attack and fact it left him completely at the mercy of loosing his life by the attacker as well as age discrepancy...

It is more than reasonable that this man feared for his life.
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Old August 30, 2019, 04:10 PM   #109
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It's nice that you don't approve of yelling at women; I don't either. That itself shouldn't justify violence.
Exactly.
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Old August 30, 2019, 05:15 PM   #110
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I never said it did, but for me being pushed does not warrant shooting someone.
Given the violence of the initial attack and fact it left him completely at the mercy of loosing his life by the attacker as well as age discrepancy...

It is more than reasonable that this man feared for his life.
Thankfully the jury seen it differently. There is a big leap from being pushed to fearing for your life. That's called catastrophic thinking i am glad i do not have that affliction, i have being pushed plenty of times and shooting the person doing the pushing is the last thing i would think of doing. We obviously have a different mindset here regarding threats, threat levels and how to deal with them.
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Old August 30, 2019, 05:29 PM   #111
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Now that I think about it the last time I was in Ireland a guy did shove me, or at least try to, and threaten to kill me over a relatively minor issue. He had been drinking as well. That's never happened in my private life in the US since I reached the age of maturity.

So we may be talking about a cultural divide between Ireland and the US.
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Old August 30, 2019, 06:17 PM   #112
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lesson from all this is don't lay hands on somebody just because they have a big mouth.
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Old August 30, 2019, 06:24 PM   #113
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So we may be talking about a Now that I think about it the last time I was in Ireland a guy did shove me, or at least try to, and threaten to kill me over a relatively minor issue. He had been drinking as well. That's never happened in my private life in the US since I reached the age of maturity.

So we may be talking about a cultural divide between Ireland and the US. Ireland and the US
There is a cultural divide between Northern Ireland ( UK ) and the Republic of Ireland they are two different countries. So when you say Ireland you need to be more specific, that's like me saying i was in America, but actually in Canada. PS I hope you didn't shoot him.

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Old August 30, 2019, 06:28 PM   #114
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lesson from all this is don't lay hands on somebody just because they have a big mouth.
Or another lesson could be don't shoot someone for laying hands on you and think all you have to say is i felt my life was threatened, or as in this case you could end up in jail over what started out as a minor incident.
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Old August 30, 2019, 07:41 PM   #115
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Or another lesson could be don't shoot someone for laying hands on you and think all you have to say is i felt my life was threatened, or as in this case you could end up in jail over what started out as a minor incident.
I think the shooting was justified (but questionable) and the shooter poisoned his defense with his prior acts of being a dick. The main lesson: Don't be a dick.

We also don't know what all he said to the cops before getting a lawyer. Secondary lesson: Shut up.
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Old August 30, 2019, 08:20 PM   #116
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This discussion area is about Law and Civil Rights. Let's keep the discussion on the topic of the shooting and the verdict, and leave discussions of what "racism" means today for some other forum.
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Old August 31, 2019, 07:10 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
I would resist a simple test that concludes that an attack has stopped soley based on an assailant's direction of travel. That a person is walking away from me doesn't mean that he is done attacking me.

Andrew Brannan walked away from a PO...to his truck, from which he retrieved a carbine he use to kill the PO. I don't recommend watching the dashcam video, but it does exist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsrC5QV_Yrc
Yes, but if he was to continue the attack, he would then need to move toward the guy on the ground..he did not..he was shot first. If the attacker had started to change directions, toward the guy on the ground then the SYG law would have more legs..but he was moving away..
Quote:
Backing away is NOT walking away.
Irrelevant..direction of travel is what's important and whether or not he 'may' go to his car and get a gun..also irrelevant..not part of this case.
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Old August 31, 2019, 07:42 AM   #118
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The defense questioned Kelly on why he waited to come forward with that information.

Kelly's boss, John Tyler, also testified about how Drejka called him to complain about Kelly.

"He told me that I was lucky," Tyler said. "He said if I had a gun, he said I could've shot him. I said, 'I feel sorry that you would feel that way.' I said 'I carry a gun and my training I was taught to remove yourself from those situations.'"
Interesting. Why would he call the guy's boss to complain about parking?
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Old August 31, 2019, 08:24 AM   #119
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Zimmerman is not appropriate. I said a case where the defendant was attacked, the victim moved back and was shot, and it was successful ly considered self defense.
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Old August 31, 2019, 08:26 AM   #120
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It wasn't a Florida case, but I believe part of the shooting of Michael Brown by Darren Wilson involved Brown first running from Wilson and then toward him.
I'd encourage anyone with an interest in that case to read the final report. Brown was not running when he was shot. The first shots occurred when Brown reached into the car to seize the officer's gun. Subsequent shots were fired when the officer exited the vehicle and Brown advanced on him.

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Or another lesson could be don't shoot someone for laying hands on you and think all you have to say is i felt my life was threatened
I was told at an early age, "you can have a gun, or you can have a temper. Pick one."

When I have the means of lethal force at hand, it behooves me to be patient and measured in my actions. It's not a tool for winning an argument or settling confrontations that could be resolved any other way.

Our legal system agrees. Society strongly discourages violence, and it really frowns on homicide. If I have to resort to lethal force, I need a REALLY good reason. Not a justification or an excuse: a compelling reason.

SYG laws don't remove that responsibility. Even with the most lenient use-of-force laws, the use of legal force is going to trigger serious scrutiny. The jury will, on some level, ask whether there was anything I could have done to avoid killing someone.

And in Drejka's case, there certainly was.
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Old August 31, 2019, 08:55 AM   #121
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Or another lesson could be don't shoot someone for laying hands on you
Absolutely you should defend yourself if someone perpetrates physical violence against you.

It means they are willing to cross a line and remove the veneer of civilization then the step from non-lethal to lethal is a much smaller step to take....
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Old August 31, 2019, 09:02 AM   #122
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The defense questioned Kelly on why he waited to come forward with that information.

Kelly's boss, John Tyler, also testified about how Drejka called him to complain about Kelly.

"He told me that I was lucky," Tyler said. "He said if I had a gun, he said I could've shot him. I said, 'I feel sorry that you would feel that way.' I said 'I carry a gun and my training I was taught to remove yourself from those situations.'"
This guy should have had his CCW removed and he obviously was not fit to handle the responsibility. Why didn't Tyler report him for conveying a threat? Threatening someone with a gun especially if you have the means to carry that threat out is a crime.

This whole situation could have been prevented. Now the next guy who gets violently assaulted and defends his life is going to have a much harder time because of this case.

Again, poor legal representation all around on this one.
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Old August 31, 2019, 11:11 AM   #123
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I'd encourage anyone with an interest in that case to read the final report.
That is a good idea. The media reporting of the Brown shooting was a travesty of inaccurate reporting, false witnesses and lies. Many of them designed to stoke the follow on riots.

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, the victim moved back and was shot, and it was successfully considered self defense.
I can get you more than halfway there.

I have seen a video of shooting where a LEO shot a man in the back and the shoot was justified. The police were questioning him while they were arresting several other subjects in the same gang. The BG suddenly turns away and starts walking off apparently unarmed. Several seconds later the officer puts three rounds in his back. When the body is checked BG has a gun in his hand that he was concealing up front. The whole thing was captured on video. The officer had seen the reflection in the glass of a nearby building of the BG pulling it out while he was "walking away".

That clearly wasn't happening here. But yes in rare and exceptional cases a threat may fake a retreat to gain some advantage.
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Old August 31, 2019, 02:00 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by USNRet93 View Post
Yes, but if he was to continue the attack, he would then need to move toward the guy on the ground..he did not..he was shot first. If the attacker had started to change directions, toward the guy on the ground then the SYG law would have more legs..but he was moving away..


Irrelevant..direction of travel is what's important and whether or not he 'may' go to his car and get a gun..also irrelevant..not part of this case.
Exactly!
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Old August 31, 2019, 05:00 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by USNRet93
Quote:
I would resist a simple test that concludes that an attack has stopped soley based on an assailant's direction of travel. That a person is walking away from me doesn't mean that he is done attacking me.

Andrew Brannan walked away from a PO...to his truck, from which he retrieved a carbine he use to kill the PO. I don't recommend watching the dashcam video, but it does exist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsrC5QV_Yrc
Yes, but if he was to continue the attack, he would then need to move toward the guy on the ground..he did not..he was shot first.
That an attack does not persist because the attacker is shot is the point of self defense rather than an unambiguous indicator that an attack has ended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRet93
If the attacker had started to change directions, toward the guy on the ground then the SYG law would have more legs..but he was moving away..
...
Irrelevant..direction of travel is what's important and whether or not he 'may' go to his car and get a gun..also irrelevant..not part of this case.
Whether an attacker is moving away as a part of the attack or because he has discontinued the attack cannot be irrelevant to whether a defendant believes he is in continuing danger of grave injury or death at the hands of the attacker.

That doesn't make the jury here wrong, it just doesn't mean that a momentary and slight increase in distance between the parties isn't fatal to a legitimate self defense claim.


If you believe that it is not possible for an attacker to move away from his target momentarily as a part of the attack itself, there are already examples of just that in this thread.

Last edited by zukiphile; August 31, 2019 at 05:29 PM.
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