The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 14, 2016, 04:27 PM   #776
1940izhevsk
Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2016
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 59
200,000+ views, 12 pages of replies. I think this thread is a contender for "Most Popular Thread".

Correction: 32 pages of replies
__________________
What does unburnt powder smell like? Pepper.
What does burnt powder smell like? Awesome!
1940izhevsk is offline  
Old October 2, 2016, 03:55 AM   #777
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
Here is a picture of the 12ga FH brass case that Nathan

Vale had Bertrams make. Next to short plastic case.




Here is a picture of our 585BB headstamp. Perfect lettering

for our case as it came from production line,.




I like Hogue stocks, but they aren't made for singleshots.

We use singleshots for our 12ga FH and 585HE.

Here is picture of a NEF we set up for 24ga FH and we adapted

a Hogue 1300 Winchester Hogue to it. Looks a lot better, and

handles recoil easier than factory, Butt hollow, easy to add weight,





Here is picture of 585 case in the Lawton bolt, and the wildcat

375s and others made from our cases, work in bolt also. Ed


__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old January 6, 2017, 10:06 AM   #778
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
Our friend Brian from the far north went to Africa with his 24ga FH he did in
a NEF break action and got 3 nice buffs with it. Good job.


Our 585HE, 700HE and the great 12ga FH are now in the new COTW book
published in Oct, now out for sale,




We now have our target 375 HE cartridge, made by necking down our 585 HE.
A bunch of guys doing it, into the 2 mile shooting venues, We're making cases,
testing, reamer prints at reamer guys, we are getting guys going. The 2 mile
shoot last year really got the interest booming for 375 necked from our case,

How we size and seat 375 HE, one simple die, a 1" die, no monster dies needed
A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then
pass on to the next guy, those reamers can make a pile of dies.

I do primer work separate, not in the press. SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.

When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered,
held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck... IE
the sides and shoulder corner still supported tight.

So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length,
below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,

Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff same thread,
reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up,

After priming, loading in the powder charge, we carefully start(boat tail makes it easy)
bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated
perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating
bushing of some kind , that can be made from many items.

These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice
bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special dies.
Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.

OVER 900 375HE cases piled behind presses getting done. About 600 on another
bench nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.And we will do more.

All 375 info, prints, specs, pictures, load data, etc, is public domain, worldwide,
for any target, hunting, etc, use..Ed


__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old February 4, 2017, 06:05 PM   #779
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
Here is picture of one of 3 buffs our guy from Canada got in


Africa with our 24ga FH he did on a NEF, in 2nd picture














Here is the neck die setup, with insert stems/plugs for the top that


are set in .020" steps to make our 375 HEs shown behind


from our 585HE cases. 900 cases behind and 600 on


another bench, mostly done, and 600 started elsewhere,


We also made a hydraulic form die, 375 HE test gun, starting with


lighter bullets, for example got 340 gr to 3700,


Will test up to 400gr We will find top speeds and powders needed


to get that, and have info where to get powders. Reamer prints are


at reamer guys, all prints and info is public domain... Ed....


__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old February 4, 2017, 10:04 PM   #780
Boncrayon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 24, 2008
Posts: 920
12GA Rifle From Hell

Remington late 1871 Rolling Block had a 45-70 and a soon a 50-70, both of which had a mega wallop! Historically, the 45-70 almost wiped out the American Buffalo herds. I have to use an added shoulder pad even for my 45-70. At my age, I watch out for such repeated recoil of large rounds.
Boncrayon is offline  
Old February 22, 2017, 04:18 PM   #781
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
Here is pic of a couple of our 375 HE next to a little 378 WEA.
Middle- 375 HE case has 330 gr bullet- Right has 400gr.. Ed

__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old March 28, 2017, 08:43 AM   #782
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
Here is the before and after of 375 HE cases
necked, 2 on left, and then formed in hydro die... Ed




We now have 416 HE, with cases ahead and
working on maybe the ultimate 416
Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left.
Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, ac long one pictured.
Holds 280 gr ball powder under bullet. The
3.6" case can hold about 250gr under bullet.. In picture,
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 He, 4th 378 WEA.



__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old March 28, 2017, 12:45 PM   #783
Siggy-06
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 924
Wow, just wow. What kind of velocity/drop are you getting from the 375 HE?
Siggy-06 is online now  
Old March 31, 2017, 11:53 AM   #784
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 7,406
The buffalo's teeth are disturbingly human like.


But seriously, it's like Christmas time when I see this thread updated.
rickyrick is online now  
Old May 10, 2017, 10:47 PM   #785
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
With 400gr loaded out long we get 375 HE over 3400,

Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HEHe can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, , Going to do more cases for these 2 sizes,

PM or email. ph 989-644-5228.. Here are specs for 416 HE .Length 3.32", belt diameter ,655", base dia .635" , length base to
shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.

Our 416 HSM will have about 25gr more capacity than regular 50bmg,
and as for actions if you add up the fat bolt non-bmg
actions, with .750"- .800" bolts, there are about
a dozen, some priced pretty reasonable.
Here is picture of 416 HSM fireformed once,
next to bmg case we make it from and as we
improve wildcatting process next few weeks
some specs may make small changes, now from
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed.

__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old May 18, 2017, 08:58 AM   #786
Jackmerius
Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2017
Posts: 17
Hello Mr. Hubel, thank you for sharing all of your amazing and ridiculous work. There is a wealth of knowledge here that you and many others here have graciously shared with the firearms community and although this is my first post, I thank everyone for the wisdom I've picked up with all these years of reading.

Ed, I have acquired my Ultra Slug gun and will start building the NEF 12ga with 3.5" chamber which you have recommend to many of us before, as it seems to be the simplest way to get into the gnarly loads you are producing. However, what limits the NEF to only a 3.5" chamber instead of the full 12ga FH chamber of 3.85"? Would the 3.85" chamber be useless in the short 24" barrel?

Also, since we have an affordable and simple way into a big 12ga, do you have any ideas on a relatively affordable way to get into 4 bore? Are there strong, affordable actions available so that one can be purchased and a custom barrel fitted to it? The 12ga FH is very impressive, but if I'm going to do something ridiculous, might as well be -really- ridiculous! The shock and awe factor is off the scale!!
Jackmerius is offline  
Old June 28, 2017, 11:45 PM   #787
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
The deal with 3,85 brass is getting some and cost, so we say it is
easier to go 3.5" as that can use up the strength of break action anyway,

Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for 28ga and
410 ga and 32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.
They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with
our 585 case in the action.Guys can get Magtech brass cases or have
RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,
410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..

[​IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/585mosin2.jpg[/IMG]
__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old July 1, 2017, 12:04 AM   #788
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
For doing 4bore ,,,,big cost, 500 for barrel, or more,
have to build own actions, none available I know of..Ed
__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old July 10, 2017, 07:34 PM   #789
Tinbucket
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2015
Posts: 355
I love optamism.
Getting ready for the resurrected Mastadons and maybe a big Brontosaurusssss.
If nothing else you can shoot down NK missles.
Does it come with the wheel kit?
Tinbucket is offline  
Old July 23, 2017, 02:14 AM   #790
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
Put it on old tractor rear end out here, maybe, haha

The 12ga FH case now is in the new COTW book on
last page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.
They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that case....


The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,

has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,

on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..

[ATTACH=full]758001[/ATTACH]


Shooters talking more now; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case proportions, too fast of
powders, and the debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below..
My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.
__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old July 23, 2017, 02:22 AM   #791
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
The 12ga FH case now is in the new COTW book on
last page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.
They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that case....


The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,

has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,

on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..




Shooters talking more now; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case proportions, too fast of
powders, and the debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below..
My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.

__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old July 24, 2017, 02:47 PM   #792
Jackmerius
Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2017
Posts: 17
Hi Mr. Hubel, have a quick question about your NEF bored out to 8ga. What is the muzzle outside diameter? I have an older NEF Pardner 10ga that I may want to try this with, but the barrel is tapered... What is a safe muzzle thickness for the 8ga NEF?
Jackmerius is offline  
Old September 17, 2017, 10:11 AM   #793
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
The 10 ga we used had 32" bull bbl , about 1.070" muzzle,
It was the goose gun with long bbl, they make turkey
gun also with bull barrel that is 24"

Here is case measurements for our 416 HE target case
made from our 585 HE big belted case. Ed



Here is picture of 375 HE left, 416 HE next, 416 HSM right..



Here, tentative specs, 416 HSM case we are doing from bmg brass,



A 375 HE, with Lawton action, bunch being done with those .....

__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old October 9, 2017, 07:42 PM   #794
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
Here is a 375 HE target gun set up, by Asteroid Precision...




Here is video of it being tested... And with a 350gr bullet about 3450-3475,

bolt opened easily with one finger...And he's just getting started

and is checking on better powder, Ed...........



https://www.facebook.com/AsteroidPrecisi..._location=group
__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old November 17, 2017, 02:31 AM   #795
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
Here is recap simple setup to get faster loads with 12ga sabots

& slugs, Example using break actions...., reaming chamber

in a 12ga break action to 3.5" with a 3.5" 12ga reamer, that isn't

something needing special order, and use 3.5" plastic cases , or

get 3.5" brass cases made. With mag shotgun primers and

our slower powder loads you can get a quarter more speed,

which gives 50% more energy...


585 Hubel Express video, 190ft/lbs recoil, heavy load, gun little light.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyS9zZ8ElJA


Another view of Asteroid Precision's.... 375 HE target gun,




Here is our 416 HSM we are developing next to 416 Barrett, Ed

__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old January 10, 2018, 12:49 AM   #796
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
Here in picture of the cases, are shown the steps in making

our 416 HSM case, from BMG brass,, Ed




We might have a company that is doing a bolt gun with an action

between BMG size and longer rifle actions used for 375 HE,

375 Lethal, and Cheytacs.. To use for our 416 HSM without

having to do extreme rebating of the rim.


Here is picture of 620 hsm cases half done. Done on cnc ,

that slimmed them down, cut new rim and extractor groove.

There are over 500 more at cnc getting done now, plus we have

1000s more bmg cases we make them from, when needed.

This case is public domain and if anyone wants to make

them we can give he steps involved...Ed

__________________
ED HUBEL

Last edited by HUBEL458; January 10, 2018 at 12:57 AM.
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old January 10, 2018, 03:48 AM   #797
Model12Win
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2012
Posts: 5,854
Looks like big medicine for buffler or griz.
Model12Win is offline  
Old January 10, 2018, 07:35 AM   #798
Siggy-06
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 924
Well, if they ever get a mammoth cloned and mass produced for hunting, I know what I'd like to use...
__________________
Flicks just like a lighter, just a different kind of fire.
Siggy-06 is online now  
Old February 12, 2018, 05:28 AM   #799
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
For big long cases our testing is showing that the 416 easier to get powders to work with, less problems ..
Maybe building a target gun,don't have 375 barrel all ready, maybe go 416....

We got cases, 416 HE and 416 HSM, as well as 375...
CEB and others will have bullets...CEB will be doing .416 in 450gr, 475gr, 500gr, 525gr and 550gr

Got sent 5 thick sided sample cases, same OD base as 585/375.416 cases, same belt, just .180" longer,
did a 416 HE, chambered extra barrel , cases stick over 50k. They have about .042" total taper, .021" per
side, when I necked couple to 416. That is a lot of taper , twice the taper of my 416HE...hanging up at 50k..

I could maybe go to 65k with these if we made taper with ..012" - .016" more taper to each side, but that is
no way to build target cases. I'd have to crunch down case shoulder diameter. And would look like 30-30.

And crazy part is, the case has enough brass material to thin up sides and stretch them way out to 4 or
more inches,, They weigh 150 gr more than our 585/375/416,, but with real thick sides they actually
hold less than our 416 HE with thin sides, that is .180" shorter...Our case does 65k ok without sticking..

And we can make super long 4" cases work if we had means to get them built, as we have
15 powders slower than HBMG.Here is pic of thin and thick sided cases, sectioned for comparison.Ed..


__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Old March 4, 2018, 05:57 PM   #800
HUBEL458
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2000
Posts: 730
Here is a drawing depicting the layout of thick and thin sided cases,
like my 585/375/416 HE thin sided ones and the thick one in picture.

And my 585 case is not perfect, as where it transitions from the
heavier corner to the side it isn't gradual, so case separates there
shortening case life. There are others made that way including brand X.
The dotted line is what it should be............



Others have sent cases to section and look at, that are built thick sided and they
stick also for the folks, If a longer case with about 5 sq in of side surface sticks and
don't spring back, the coefficient of friction is about .01 then the pull needed to move
it is 2500-3500 lbs..That is for big cases with normal amount of slant to the sides.

Here is picture of six nyati and gibbs size cases sectioned.. the5th one is present 585 HE
and 6th is thick sided version. 1st 600 OK which essentially nyati basic case left straight, belt added



In the picture the nyati gma is one we built most of our first 585s on. Before we had factory run.
Reworking made it in size that is my 585 HE, but that brass had the sides of perfect thickness,
not too thick, but thin without sharp transition my new factory 585s had, they last forever as 585s......

Fourth one is an older nyati case I used to make about 10 of my 585s from,had thin sides, heavy corner
and sharp transition from the corner, tested 20 years ago, and they would separate after 4-6 hot loads
as 585s, my factory 585 with right powders, as a 585 will get 10 hot loads, and necked down to
416/375 4- 6 hot loads, right powders used, Moderate 577 equivalent, factory 585 at least 20 loads..Ed.
__________________
ED HUBEL
HUBEL458 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.15410 seconds with 9 queries