|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
September 21, 2019, 08:36 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 5, 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 358
|
ATF admitting over reach with bump stocks?
Just saw this today.
I was glad to see a glimmer of hope and thought I would pass it on. As most already know, this was yet another, new way to satisfy the need to calm the masses by circumventing the constitution. This isn't over and has all happened within the last 12 months. That in itself is impressive to get to this point but I am sure it isn't over yet. At the very least, maybe this will be a new fidget spinner to occupy those who want to reduce our 2A rights for a while. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/atf-a...172200417.html Exerpt: Aposhian v. Barr, et al. Washington, D.C., Sept. 18, 2019 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Congress has not prohibited bump stocks, but the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) has made them illegal with a Final Rule issued without statutory authority. In a noteworthy development, ATF’s latest court filing admits that it lacked rulemaking authority under the Gun Control Act and National Firearms Act to issue a legislative rule. ATF thus now agrees with NCLA that the district court below was wrong on this point of law.
__________________
L2R Last edited by L2R; September 22, 2019 at 06:31 PM. |
September 21, 2019, 11:11 AM | #2 |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,433
|
Just to be clear, the article refers to a pending appeal before the U.S. Circuit Court. The fact that it is an appeal means that the aggrieved [former] bump stock owner has already lost once in District court.
The case raises a valid point and it certainly bears watching, but don't uncork the champagn just yet.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic |
September 21, 2019, 03:29 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 5, 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 358
|
Agreed.
Regardless, I am going to enjoy the moment and hope the crack widens.
__________________
L2R |
September 21, 2019, 06:25 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 21, 2018
Posts: 218
|
Figures... I just dug mine out and took a branch cutter to it. And now they want to act like the ban is just a recommendation.
Anyway... any real shooter knows bump stocks are worthless anyway... it was in the bottom of one of my many bins for a reason. |
September 21, 2019, 06:45 PM | #5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 4,322
|
Quote:
Bump stocks were a conspiracy by ammo manufacturers to get the real Tacticool shooters to triple their ammo consumption and perceived testosterone levels
__________________
Cave illos in guns et backhoes |
|
September 21, 2019, 07:24 PM | #6 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 21, 2018
Posts: 218
|
Quote:
I wasted money on it... I installed it, took it out back, fired 2 mags, took it off and that was that. Not a fan of it, but I had no intention of destroying the damn thing. lol |
|
September 22, 2019, 07:09 AM | #7 |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,057
|
Even if we win on this, I wouldn't run out and buy one just yet.
Chances are, that will prompt the House will pass an actual law banning them. The Senate will vote for it to claim they're "compromising on gun safety," and the President will sign it.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
September 22, 2019, 08:10 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 5, 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 358
|
It's a win if this stops the ATF from making new laws.
If they want to ban bump stocks, so be it. At least it goes through the proper process.
__________________
L2R Last edited by L2R; September 22, 2019 at 09:43 AM. |
September 22, 2019, 09:13 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 15, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,566
|
Ban was just a political ploy but rest assured it won't stop there, I just hope Trump and the GOP don't cave on more stuff but I'm thinking they will. Bump stocks were just the first domino.
|
September 24, 2019, 09:15 AM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 4,439
|
Quote:
Remove that regulatory band-aid at the wrong time and we'll see the full Feinstein treatment.
__________________
http://www.npboards.com/index.php |
|
September 24, 2019, 10:04 AM | #11 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,714
|
Quote:
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
|
September 24, 2019, 11:56 AM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,235
|
Whatever the outcome, there will be some nuance that will be used against us.
|
September 24, 2019, 03:32 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 2,199
|
DoubleNaught, probably not, since braces are not part of any federal laws. (That I am aware of). Unless the ATF reverses it's opinion that braces are not stocks, they cannot ban them unilaterally...if they tried, a win in this case might be of use (if the court says the ATF cannot simply redefine something as something else that is banned)
|
September 24, 2019, 03:53 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 6,161
|
|
September 24, 2019, 06:22 PM | #15 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 5, 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 358
|
Quote:
Post Vegas shooting, ATF is asked to review this again and they reverses their ruling. They can't explain it or defend it because it is just wrong. I don't think they came to any other conclusion so the only logical answer is that they told to do it. And the masses were appeased. But wait, that was easy! No debate, no bill introduced, just done in a matter of days! The problem is exactly what you said, "what next, braces, pistol grip, gas engines?" So this, to me, is a big deal. This needs to be fixed or it sets a precedence one can only imagine.
__________________
L2R |
|
September 24, 2019, 07:47 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 30, 2009
Location: Cyber-world USA
Posts: 258
|
The only way they will stop bump firing is to take away everyone's belt loops. LOL
|
September 25, 2019, 12:21 AM | #17 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,675
|
Quote:
The ATF does not make laws. They do not have the legal authority to make laws. If they made a law, it would be an unconstitutional act and therefore, illegal. What the ATF does, is make regulations to enforce laws, and make rulings on how those regulations are applied, and, to what. Yes, in this case, I believe that the ATF (possibly under "secret" orders) threw a baby to the anti gun wolves, to keep the whole pack from charging at full speed. No, I don't think it was right, in principle, to do that, BUT, it did shut down the wolves for a while, and it affected a relatively small number of people, directly. AND, as pointed out, since it was done via regulation, it can be reversed, via regulation without needed a law passed through Congress. Bump stock owners were considered a sacrificial pawn, and, despite our personal desires the goal is not "protect everything" (though it SHOULD BE), the goal is greatest good for the greatest number. its how those in power play the game, while we (pawns all) pay the price.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
September 25, 2019, 07:51 AM | #18 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,475
|
Quote:
Quote:
get 'that phone call'??
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” |
||
September 25, 2019, 09:03 AM | #19 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 16, 2012
Location: ME
Posts: 768
|
ATF admitting over reach with bump stocks?
Quote:
Nope... because ATF isn’t a part of DHS. They are a part of DOJ. DHS includes CBP, ICE, TSA, USCIS, USSS, FEMA, and US Coast Guard. Don’t know where you quoted that, but ATF isn’t a part of CBP, either. We (I’m with CBP) enforce some ATF jurisdiction at the border, but two separate agencies. |
|
September 25, 2019, 09:46 AM | #20 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,475
|
Quote:
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” |
|
September 25, 2019, 10:03 AM | #21 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 16, 2012
Location: ME
Posts: 768
|
Quote:
That is correct... and unless there is an office that investigates those situations, Attorney General Barr would be the one to review it. However, DHS and DOJ are completely separate departments with different agencies within... and different chains of command/heads. Pointing that out, because the Acting Secretary of DHS wouldn’t be worrying about that. |
|
September 25, 2019, 10:49 AM | #22 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,475
|
Quote:
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” Last edited by USNRet93; September 26, 2019 at 06:56 AM. |
|
September 25, 2019, 08:09 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 5, 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 358
|
44, thank you for saying it better than I did.
While the technicality of all this matters, the end result was the point. The ATF's decision changed many who were upstanding citizens into law breakers if they didn't rid themselves of the bump stocks. Last count I saw was that less than 600 have been turned in.
__________________
L2R |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|