The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 29, 2019, 10:02 AM   #51
OldMarksman
Staff
 
Join Date: June 8, 2008
Posts: 3,911
Quote:
Where there was a pre-trial hearing that held the shooters actions were found to be not unlawful and the civil case proceeded ahead anyway. I am saying there are not any. The existence of even one would invalidate my opinion.
Correct. There aren't any.

You seem to beleive that you can prove a negative.

I do not understand what it is that makes you believe that something that happens in the criminal justice system would impinge upon a case of tort law.

Quote:
There is no such legal principle that gives a bar to trial.
The fundamental legal principle is that criminal matters and civil mattere are adjudicate in different courts.

Quote:
Less than half the states even have SYG laws.
Neither immunity from prosecution nor immunity from civl liability has anything to do with SYG provisions.
OldMarksman is offline  
Old August 29, 2019, 10:13 AM   #52
MTT TL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 2,670
Quote:
Correct. There aren't any.

You seem to beleive that you can prove a negative.

I do not understand what it is that makes you believe that something that happens in the criminal justice system would impinge upon a case of tort law.
The way the criminal law is written and it's cited application by a civil court judge as noted in the civil case cited above. I guess you didn't read the case?
__________________
Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.
MTT TL is offline  
Old August 29, 2019, 10:29 AM   #53
OldMarksman
Staff
 
Join Date: June 8, 2008
Posts: 3,911
Quote:
The way the criminal law is written
...says nothing about how the law is carried out.

Quote:
...its cited application by a civil court judge as noted in the civil case cited above.
The case you cited had to do solely with immunity from criminal prosecution.

The court was the Alabama Supreme Court.

The Florida law is written exactly the same way. The two kind of immunity come from pretrial hearings in different courts
OldMarksman is offline  
Old August 29, 2019, 10:32 AM   #54
MTT TL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 2,670
Quote:
The case you cited had to do solely with immunity from criminal prosecution.
Ah, so you did not read it. Or maybe you are looking at the wrong one. If you somehow think the Saban case is a criminal case then you misunderstood every aspect of it.
__________________
Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.
MTT TL is offline  
Old August 29, 2019, 10:44 AM   #55
OldMarksman
Staff
 
Join Date: June 8, 2008
Posts: 3,911
Quote:
Ah, so you did not read it. Or maybe you are looking at the wrong one. If you somehow think the Saban case is a criminal case then you misunderstood every aspect of it.
Wrong case.

But the appeal of the "Saban Case" was decided on its own merits and had nothing to do with the criminal procedure.

The Justia Opinion Summary said this:

Quote:
The Stand Your Ground law does not confer civil liability immunity to a criminal defendant based upon an immunity determination in the criminal case.
Emphasis added.

They were, of course referring to immunity provisions, and not to SYG. The latter has only to do with a duty to retreat.

Odd to find such an authoritative source propogating that common error.
OldMarksman is offline  
Old August 29, 2019, 11:00 AM   #56
MTT TL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 2,670
Quote:
The Justia Opinion Summary said this:
Who cares what they think?

That isn't what the opinion stated or even implied. Emphasis added.

The ruling could not state that because there never was a criminal case at all.

And because there was no criminal case there was no ruling. Therefore the ASC tried to examine the actions to determine if Saban's actions were unlawful. They found issues and therefore remanded. They stated in the ruling they had no opinion on the immunity itself.
__________________
Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.

Last edited by MTT TL; August 29, 2019 at 11:43 AM.
MTT TL is offline  
Old September 5, 2019, 08:31 PM   #57
hdwhit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 22, 2017
Posts: 980
Quote:
labnoti wrote:
If it is truly a clean shoot, you may not even be charged with anything.
Even in the case of the "cleanest" shooting imaginable with no resulting criminal charges, don't forget that you may still face a civil lawsuit.
hdwhit is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.05589 seconds with 10 queries