A Thought

**OldMarksman** · January 17, 2022, 04:13 PM

Just a thought here, and for me, this really didn't sink in completely until late in life, no matter how often I heard it, said it, read it, or wrote it.

When we think defensive tactics and training, we tend to ponder shooting, movement, cover and concealment, and that vague thing we call situational awareness.

It might be valuable to start at a different point--to come to grips with the idea that when we are armed, we really don't want to do anything that we would not do when we are not--untill we have to.

We have all heard "don't go to stupid places with stupid people who do stupid things", or some variation.

We can add some flesh to those bones. We should add "do not get involved inother peoples' trouble; never head toward what may become a confrontation; be quick to apologize, and slow to challenge; leave the ego at home; and do not behave as if we believe we are "the good guy"; and never cause anyone to lose face.

I believe that a number of recent shootings that have made the headlines might well have been avoided, had the participants embraced that philosophy.

eflyguy · January 17, 2022, 04:46 PM

Little argument here, except for the "other people's trouble" part.

If I found myself in a solid position to defend the >>obviously<< innocent and defenseless from harm, I would not hesitate.

I'm no hero, no warrior, but I will attempt to defend myself and the above without hesitation. That's why I carry.

Double Naught Spy · January 17, 2022, 05:07 PM

Quote:

We can add some flesh to those bones. We should add "do not get involved inother peoples' trouble; never head toward what may become a confrontation; be quick to apologize, and slow to challenge; leave the ego at home; and do not behave as if we believe we are "the good guy"; and never cause anyone to lose face.

I believe that a number of recent shootings that have made the headlines might well have been avoided, had the participants embraced that philosophy.

While generally good thoughts, the notion of not getting involved in other people's trouble as a blanket statement is quite problematic - for many individuals and for society.

However, here is your poster dude for your cause.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jrchHAN_tY

**OldMarksman** · January 17, 2022, 05:12 PM

Quote:

If I found myself in a solid position to defend the innocent and defenseless from harm, I would not hesitate.

Well, if you know the person, and know everything about what has put that person in that position, more power to you.

But things are not always what they seem. The apparent "victim" may not be innocent, and that would impact a defense of justification. In some jurisdictions, a factual basis for a reasonable belief may suffice, but in others, the third party must in fact be innocent.

Perhaps the bigger risk is that of the victim, even bloodied and helpless, coming forth afterward to testify that the rescuer had been the aggressor. That is not at all uncommon.

eflyguy · January 17, 2022, 08:23 PM

Sorry.

Should have included "obviously" in my statement. Situations like a hold-up, indiscriminate public shooting, etc.

Yes, judgement is required. I've been thru training on what can and can't be done with lethal force in my state.

**OldMarksman** · January 18, 2022, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Should have included "obviously" in my statement. Situations like a hold-up, indiscriminate public shooting, etc.

Yes, judgement is required. I've been thru training on what can and can't be done with lethal force in my state.

Innocence would not be enough for me to risk being shot, to incur certain legal expenses from the outset, and to risk a bad legal outcome. The third party would have to be someone close to me.

eflyguy · January 18, 2022, 12:59 PM

Like I said, I've been thru training - which was provided by LEO and legal council.

I'd take my chances vs watching the "obviously" victimized being, well, victimized.

I totally agree with avoiding stupid places and stupid people. You seemed to be soliciting opinion, I'm just stating mine.

We went to dinner in a rather sketchy part of town known for violent crime in Dec 2020. All but one of our party of 7 was carrying.

tdrizzle · January 25, 2022, 10:44 AM

Have a look at Ken Hackathorn's video The New Reality on You tube. It's enlightening regarding this topic.

Moonglum · January 25, 2022, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eflyguy

We went to dinner in a rather sketchy part of town known for violent crime in Dec 2020. All but one of our party of 7 was carrying.

Would this have been the case in a "safe" area of town?

January 17, 2022, 04:13 PM	#1
OldMarksman Staff Join Date: June 8, 2008 Posts: 4,022	A Thought Just a thought here, and for me, this really didn't sink in completely until late in life, no matter how often I heard it, said it, read it, or wrote it. When we think defensive tactics and training, we tend to ponder shooting, movement, cover and concealment, and that vague thing we call situational awareness. It might be valuable to start at a different point--to come to grips with the idea that when we are armed, we really don't want to do anything that we would not do when we are not--untill we have to. We have all heard "don't go to stupid places with stupid people who do stupid things", or some variation. We can add some flesh to those bones. We should add "do not get involved inother peoples' trouble; never head toward what may become a confrontation; be quick to apologize, and slow to challenge; leave the ego at home; and do not behave as if we believe we are "the good guy"; and never cause anyone to lose face. I believe that a number of recent shootings that have made the headlines might well have been avoided, had the participants embraced that philosophy.

January 17, 2022, 04:46 PM	#2
eflyguy Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2021 Posts: 335	Little argument here, except for the "other people's trouble" part. If I found myself in a solid position to defend the >>obviously<< innocent and defenseless from harm, I would not hesitate. I'm no hero, no warrior, but I will attempt to defend myself and the above without hesitation. That's why I carry. Last edited by eflyguy; January 17, 2022 at 08:24 PM. Reason: clarification

January 25, 2022, 10:44 AM	#8
tdrizzle Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2007 Location: St Paul Posts: 209	shooting Have a look at Ken Hackathorn's video The New Reality on You tube. It's enlightening regarding this topic.

January 17, 2022, 08:23 PM	#5
eflyguy Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2021 Posts: 335	Sorry. Should have included "obviously" in my statement. Situations like a hold-up, indiscriminate public shooting, etc. Yes, judgement is required. I've been thru training on what can and can't be done with lethal force in my state.

January 18, 2022, 12:59 PM	#7
eflyguy Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2021 Posts: 335	Like I said, I've been thru training - which was provided by LEO and legal council. I'd take my chances vs watching the "obviously" victimized being, well, victimized. I totally agree with avoiding stupid places and stupid people. You seemed to be soliciting opinion, I'm just stating mine. We went to dinner in a rather sketchy part of town known for violent crime in Dec 2020. All but one of our party of 7 was carrying.