Using FMJ Formulae for Hard Cast Lead

renaissance7697 · August 8, 2001, 02:46 PM

I try to use Hard Cast Lead (for economy)
I go for "Light Target Loads"
Use is Recreational Target and Plinking.

Goal is:
1) reliable function in Autos
9mm Sig 228
45acp in Kimber full size 1911
38spl in S&W 52-2
and NOW >> .40 S&W in a Browning High Power
2) Reasonable Accuracy
3) Light Recoil
4) Low leading (easy cleaning)

I am partial to Hodgdon Powders >> Especially Clays Cays

I do not seem to be able to find much published data for "generic" Hard cast lead bullets.

I have heard that you can safely use FMJ and XTP data (for the same weight bullet) in good quality Hard Cast Lead.

Is this the group'sexperience ?

What can you recommend!

Cheapo · August 9, 2001, 06:18 PM

Checking load data from the SAME source, I usually see the lead loads at anywhere from 0% to 5% less than for same-weight jacketed bullets, with similar velocities and pressures (where pressures are listed).

Therefore, I see some small danger in using jacketed load data for lead slugs.

WESHOOT2 · August 9, 2001, 07:45 PM

".....but not always....."

Johnny Guest · August 9, 2001, 11:12 PM

1. Why do you call the powder "Clays Clays?"

2. Reason they suggest a bit less for cast lead bullets of same weight as jacketed, is that there's a mite less resistance with lead--Or, to say it another way, the pressures are a bit higher for the jacketed bullets.

It is common to presume that it is safe to use same data as for jacketed bullets for (lower pressure) cast bullet loads. The only way to determine the EXACT same velocity with the two is to do some chronograph testing.

Sorry, I have no data for Clays in the cartridges you mention. I have gotten very good results in 9 x 19 and .40 S&W with Universal.

Best,
Johnny

Poodleshooter · August 10, 2001, 09:52 AM

Quote:

1. Why do you call the powder "Clays Clays?"

I've seen lots of newer reloaders using that term because they are confused by the existence of "International Clays", "Universal Clays" and "Clays" powders.

BTW, I'm using 230gr LRN with 4grs of Clays. It's still messy. There's just very little getting around mess when shooting lubed lead. Clays is a great shotshell powder though,so I'll stick with it.

MADISON · August 10, 2001, 10:34 AM

Hard Cast and FMJ?
NEVER use the jacketed reloading data [FMJ] to reload any cast bullets. The lead bullets holds closer to the lands and groves in the barrel and causes + or - 15% more pressure than jacketed loads. You can used the Cast/lead loads to load jacketed bullets but, remember the loss in pressure and velocity.

renaissance7697 · August 10, 2001, 10:48 AM

Ref:
1. Why do you call the powder "Clays Clays?"

*****************
To distinguish it positively from "Universal"

Last time I looked at the lable on a canister of what is commonly (in load data) called > "Universal"
It said: " Hodgdon UNIVERSAL CLAYS "

This can be confusing {it was (at least) to ME} at first.

Apparently I am not the only one.
I have seen threads complaining about the somewhat ambiguous was Hodgdon labels these powders.

I always make a point of saying "Hodgdon Universal Clays" and "Hodgdon Clays Clays", so as to be surely understood.

"Belt AND Suspenders"

August 8, 2001, 02:46 PM	#1
renaissance7697 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2001 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 203	Using FMJ Formulae for Hard Cast Lead I try to use Hard Cast Lead (for economy) I go for "Light Target Loads" Use is Recreational Target and Plinking. Goal is: 1) reliable function in Autos 9mm Sig 228 45acp in Kimber full size 1911 38spl in S&W 52-2 and NOW >> .40 S&W in a Browning High Power 2) Reasonable Accuracy 3) Light Recoil 4) Low leading (easy cleaning) I am partial to Hodgdon Powders >> Especially Clays Cays I do not seem to be able to find much published data for "generic" Hard cast lead bullets. I have heard that you can safely use FMJ and XTP data (for the same weight bullet) in good quality Hard Cast Lead. Is this the group'sexperience ? What can you recommend! __________________ An Armed Society, Is a Polite Society.

August 9, 2001, 06:18 PM	#2
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Checking load data from the SAME source, I usually see the lead loads at anywhere from 0% to 5% less than for same-weight jacketed bullets, with similar velocities and pressures (where pressures are listed). Therefore, I see some small danger in using jacketed load data for lead slugs. __________________ Let us never forget that the only legitimate source of government power is the citizens. If WE cannot exercise a certain power, we cannot grant it to the state.

August 9, 2001, 07:45 PM	#3
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	".....but not always....." __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

August 10, 2001, 10:34 AM	#6
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	Hard Cast and FMJ Hard Cast and FMJ? NEVER use the jacketed reloading data [FMJ] to reload any cast bullets. The lead bullets holds closer to the lands and groves in the barrel and causes + or - 15% more pressure than jacketed loads. You can used the Cast/lead loads to load jacketed bullets but, remember the loss in pressure and velocity.

August 10, 2001, 10:48 AM	#7
renaissance7697 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2001 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 203	For Johny Guest Ref: 1. Why do you call the powder "Clays Clays?" ***************** To distinguish it positively from "Universal" Last time I looked at the lable on a canister of what is commonly (in load data) called > "Universal" It said: " Hodgdon UNIVERSAL CLAYS " This can be confusing {it was (at least) to ME} at first. Apparently I am not the only one. I have seen threads complaining about the somewhat ambiguous was Hodgdon labels these powders. I always make a point of saying "Hodgdon Universal Clays" and "Hodgdon Clays Clays", so as to be surely understood. "Belt AND Suspenders" __________________ An Armed Society, Is a Polite Society.

August 9, 2001, 11:12 PM	#4
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	1. Why do you call the powder "Clays Clays?" 2. Reason they suggest a bit less for cast lead bullets of same weight as jacketed, is that there's a mite less resistance with lead--Or, to say it another way, the pressures are a bit higher for the jacketed bullets. It is common to presume that it is safe to use same data as for jacketed bullets for (lower pressure) cast bullet loads. The only way to determine the EXACT same velocity with the two is to do some chronograph testing. Sorry, I have no data for Clays in the cartridges you mention. I have gotten very good results in 9 x 19 and .40 S&W with Universal. Best, Johnny