Best Sword for under $300?

[FirstFreedom]

samoand, that Kris Kutlery has a ninja-to style with a 19.75" blade, which sounds even better, but I can't find much on the quality of these swords.....

[samoand]

samoand, that Kris Kutlery has a ninja-to style with a 19.75" blade, which sounds even better, but I can't find much on the quality of these swords.....

I'd like to know that myself... never saw any of their blades live, just came across the site and items there looked promising at least.

[FirstFreedom]

samoand, look here - the opinions of Kris Cutlery are generally very favorable:

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...highlight=kris

Another sword interesting to me is the Kris Cutlery "Pinuti" - a Phillipine sword:

http://kriscutlery.com/philippine/pinuti.html

and here's a review of the Pinuti:

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...highlight=kris

I just wish the handle was 2-3" longer so could easily get all of my second hand on it.

[Slugthrower]

A double edged sword is just that. Any people that have practiced ken do or similar art know about having their weapon bounce back a smack them in the head. Control and practice are a must.

An alternative to the sword is a tomahawk in my opinion. Not a whole lot of skill needed. There are versions out there based on the VietNam era issue tomahawk. Currently being used in Iraq as well. They will cleave deeply into a Kevlar helmet. Very light and compact.

I wonder what a Samurai would think of an opponent wielding a pair of American Indian Tomahawks while inside a close quarters enviroment?

[Tom2]

I can't think of much real use for a sword around here, but I got two CW swords hung on the wall. An old Army ceremonial sabre. A Japanese cavalry sabre. Some kind of stainless steel Celtic sword with a short heavy leaf blade. Well that was only 20 bucks. And a CAS Iberia River Witham medieval sword that I got cheap from some guy at a gunshow. Double edged but one hand type. Carbon spring steel blade they claim. Not super sharp but has an edge from factory. Might look on CAS Iberia website. They sell thru alot of wholesalers and I am sure they have plenty of styles of two handed swords. I had some kind of two handed Knights Templar cruisader sword with a tapered to a point carbon steel blade for piercing armor. Not super sharp but the tip sure was! They are out there. The CAS sword is definitely not a toy or stage prop.

[FirstFreedom]

Tomahawk sounds interesting.

I have it narrowed down to these 8, I think:

1. Cheness Cutlery, Type 23 Katana, Onibasu (Demon Lilly), 21" curved blade, 1060 steel, 10.5" handle, with scabbard & display stand, on sale for $170:
http://www.chenessinc.com/onibasu.htm

But know very little about quality of Cheness; seems good, but haven't read much yet; read some good though...

2. Cheness Cutlery, Type 7E Wakizashi, "Musha Bessaku", 21" curved blade, 1045 steel, 10.5" handle, on sale for $100:
http://www.chenessinc.com/mushabessaku.htm

3. Cheness Cutlery, "Shura" Ko-Katana (or Chisa Katana), 9260 Steel (better), 21" curved blade, 10.5" handle, on sale for $170:
http://www.chenessinc.com/shurakokat.htm

4. Kris Cutlery (read much good about them), Ninja-to, 19.75" straight blade, 9.0" handle, with scabbard, for $145:
http://kriscutlery.com/japanese/ninjato.html

5. CAS Iberia /Hanwei, Paul Chen design (read a lot of good also), Practical Shinobi Ninja-to (White Same), 23.75" straight blade, 10.25" handle, with scabbard and small display stand, for $160
http://www.swordsdirect.com/paul-che...wei-ninja.html
http://www.americancart.us/bladecent...d/23/subid/86/

Note: Some places show this as 22.75" blade, not 23.75", but I think it's actually 23.75.

6. Generation 2, BWT Shinobi Ninja-to, 22.75" straight blade, 10.25" handle, for $280:
http://www.swordsofhonor.com/ip-026-2.html

7. Himalayan Imports Tibetan Sword - Short, 22.5" blade, 9" handle, for $195:
http://yhst-7333098713883.stores.yahoo.net/tiswsh.html

8. Kris Cutlery Phillipine Pinuti, 20.5" curved blade, 6.5" handle, for $115:
http://kriscutlery.com/philippine/pinuti.html


Leaning toward 3, 4, 5, or 7 right now, so really want to compare those. #4 is the most compact for close quarters...

Slugthrower, thanks for the info - yeah, don't want that sharp edge bouncing back into my forehead - decided to go with single edge - it's worked for samarai/shogun/ninja warriors for centuries for a reason. Seems to me now that the only way they could improve on the Ko-katana (chisa Katana), or the Shinobi Ninja-to, or any Japanese sword for that matter, would be to add a more prominent pommel, in case you lose your grip.

[FirstFreedom]

OK, I ordered #3, the Cheness "Shura" Ko-Katana, for $170, with free shipping, as a Christmas present to myself after reading some good about them at the sword forum. Plus they come with a nicer display and use real rayskin for the handle wrap (before the cloth "ito" outer wrap), instead of synthetic.

But now I'm already thinking that maybe I should have ordered the Hanwei Paul Chen Practical Ninja-to - especially since it has a nicer engraved "tsuba" (handguard) than the Cheness. And, more importantly, I didn't notice until after I ordered that the Paul Chen is only $125 at this site:
http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog...l_Katanas.html
It's $160 everywhere else!! Doh.... maybe I'll get both as funds permit and compare them.

In any event, in addition to the real rayskin and display rack, I do like the shorter blade length, the reputation for excellent customer service, nice scabbard, the premium 9260 silicon-alloy steel, and alleged sale price of the Cheness. I'll keep y'all posted, those that are interested. Amazing how, in 3 days on the net, you can self-educate on a type of product you knew nothing about...something that would have taken a 20-year subscription to consumer reports to gather that much info, in pre-internet days.

[samoand]

something that would have taken a 20-year subscription to consumer reports to gather that much info, in pre-internet days.

oh yeah.. role of internet in precipitation of efficient consumer information Congrats on having made a choice, let us know how it works out.

[Rangefinder]

Awe man, very good choice. It's gorgeous. I feel the need to warn you though, it's just like guns: You get one and the next thing you know there's a dozen or so of them accumulated and they're multiplying like rabbits. I almost hit 40 before I hit the breaks for a while... So enjoy the new addiction.

[musher]

...like rabbits?

I KNEW I shouldn't have put that albion in the safe with the last legend!!

what's that gonna cost me?

Hey, wait a minute. Maybe I can sell the litter.

[FirstFreedom]

I feel the need to warn you though, it's just like guns: You get one and the next thing you know there's a dozen or so of them accumulated and they're multiplying like rabbits. I almost hit 40 before I hit the breaks for a while... So enjoy the new addiction.

Nooooooooooooooooo! Just what I need! I can already feel that comin' on, as I've done with guns and knives. I'm already fairly certain I'm gonna get the Paul Chen also to compare it, and maybe give one of them as a gift to one of my hunting buddies who loves old martial arts movies and Kill Bill.

Lemme add that I sure wish that Kris Cutlery would greatly expand its descriptions of specifics on their swords on their website. First off, I find the Kris swords for sale *nowhere* else besides their own site. And although I've read nothing but good about them, and they have very interesting designs, they sure don't know how to market very well if they really are that good, as compared to Cheness and Paul Chen/Hanwei. They need many more pics of their products, describe the blade steel, forging, & heat treating process they use, give more detail on the components/fittings, etc.

Hey, wait a minute. Maybe I can sell the litter.

Is your Albion male or female? The Last Legend? Sorry to inform ya, but these things work a lot more like adoptions than actual biological reproduction.

Hey on my Cheness when it gets here... can anyone tell me, on the "ito", since it is just black cotton, would it behoove me to "paint" the cotton with a lacquer of some type, to enhance durability? If so, what specific chemical or product works best for that?

[Samurai]

I wonder what a Samurai would think of an opponent wielding a pair of American Indian Tomahawks while inside a close quarters enviroment?

Hmmmm.... No Sir, I don't like it!

Tomahawks are used essentially like Okinawan Kamas, but they can be effectively utilized by anyone with a good stick-fighting background. They also allow for binding and hooking of an opponent's sword.

As per ALL weapons, if you're not trained to use them, they're more of a hinderance than a help. Dual-wielding (called Ni-to in Japanese sword) is VERY, VERY difficult to do properly. But the good thing about Tomahawks is that it's rather easy to find training in various forms of stick-fighting in this country. Good sword instruction is a real rareity.

Good stuff, guys.

[samoand]

Lemme add that I sure wish that Kris Cutlery would greatly expand its descriptions of specifics on their swords on their website. First off, I find the Kris swords for sale *nowhere* else besides their own site. And although I've read nothing but good about them, and they have very interesting designs, they sure don't know how to market very well if they really are that good, as compared to Cheness and Paul Chen/Hanwei.

yes, pretty intriguing. Seemingly good stuff, interesting designs, reasonable prices, positive feedback, and not a whisper in the pool of public opinions.

[Slugthrower]

Yeah, I thought that you wouldn't like the idea Samurai

I prefer to use my machete and tomahawk, ya know a little hack n slash

As we all here should know. The weapon is but an extension of will and intent.
The mind perceives and the body follows, practice closes the thought process and open the subconscious reflex. Practice, practice, practice.
Get proper training, practice makes patterns not perfection.

[Samurai]

Amen, Brother!

[glazer1972]

Angus Trim. Only ones to look at.

[paradoxbox]

I would say if you want an affordable sword, Cheness will give you a good deal and a decent blade.

Absolutely do not buy a stainless steel sword. Do not do it under any circumstances.

Another good brand with affordable blades is cold steel. Another good brand is Kris Cutlery.

Both of them offer Japanese styled blades but cold steel's blades don't have traditional sword features (i.e. sanmai or hada)

On a gun forum people are obviously likely to say swords are useless, blah blah, the fact is swords are sharp and very dangerous and served as primary weapons for thousands of years. More people have died by the edge of a blade than by bullets. Remember that, they're not toys - you wouldn't buy a crappy gun and expect it to perform so don't buy a crappy sword and expect it to be decent either.

For under $300 anything from Cheness is likely to be a good deal.

P.S. do not try any "metal on metal" bs. You'll wreck even a good sword doing that. They're meant for cutting people.. Keep your targets softer than people are and you'll be set.

[Tom2]

Frigken swords though, they are soooo messy! Blood and guts everywhere, splatter and splash. Screaming and odd limbs lying about. I would prefer a clean shot with a JHP. Just an entry wound, and if he falls face up, less chance of staining that expensive carpet. And you don't have to explain to the cops why he died of a clean jab, but his head is over there somewhere, like you got carried away. I guess that chopping bundles of bamboo and thick rope gives you more exercise than a day at the range, and releases alot of pent up aggression and stress. And there is a definite potential for impressing threatening rogues.

[FirstFreedom]

- picturing the funny stares I would get if I practiced with my sword at the gun range

[Samurai]

I've practiced with my wooden practice-sword at a high-society racquet club. I set up the ball server and hit tennis balls to practice timing. I got some REALLY dirty looks from the yuppies at the club, too.

[Rangefinder]

Could be interesting... LOL But then I'm use to getting strange looks. Not too many people in my neighborhood hammer out medieval armor in their driveway or fight live-steel with other strange people in armor for kicks.

[FirstFreedom]

Not too many people in my neighborhood hammer out medieval armor in their driveway or fight live-steel with other strange people in armor for kicks.

No, no, I would guess not. Samarai, lol.

Hey I got the Cheness today, and will post a more detailed eval later, but lemme just say that's it is very nice; nicer than expected. Comes in a pretty soft outer /hard inner case with lined interior, which I didn't know it would...bonus. I'm pumped.

[FirstFreedom]

Wow, I am extremely impressed with this sword initially. It is very beautiful, and so are the accessories like the saya (scabbard), felt "bag" with ties, and lined case. The display stand is very basic, but could be painted with a higher gloss finish to match the gloss saya pretty easily. Everything about this outfit (Cheness) seems top notch so far, including fast shipping and an excellently-organized and detailed website. Very impressed for a measly $170 and free shipping. First order of business I did was take the rectangular box it came it, stand it up on end, and slice it up but good. I think it knows who's boss now.

Anyone have more info on this 9260 steel, in general?

I'm almost certain now that I'm gonna order the Paul Chen one too, to see which I like better.

About the only thing which seems like it might could use improvement on this sword is.... the tsuka (handle) is attached to the blade's tang via 2 pins, which I think are made of wood. This is fine, except that it seems as though it would benefit from having a 3rd pin near the bottom, for extra security. One of the two is in the middle, and one near the top (blade), but none near the bottom. Also, seems like steel would be a better choice than wood for these pins, but maybe it's done this way because it's made in the traditional manner, I would guess.

I'll try to post up some pics....

paradoxbox, thanks for the advice re: no metal on metal, etc. If you look up above on this page of this thread, in my post #56, it shows you my final 8 choices under consideration, prior to going with Cheness, and Kris is up there. Cold steel wasn't - they are good blades I'm sure, but pricier and could not be determined to be better for that price. The cold steel swords I liked best are the Chinese war sword and Grosse Messer, as I said on page 1.

glazer, the angus trim's look good, but they are all western swords, not asian, and I didn't see a design that appealed to me, like a short hand and a half for example.

Hey one more piece of advice I need right now - the cloth tsuka-ito...... should I try to harden it by applying some type of lacquer or whathaveyou, to make it last longer? And if so, what kind will work best and not erode the ito?

Another thing.... it appears as though the "working" lines of the Cheness swords are NOT differentially-tempered. Though they do have some differentially tempered swords for sale. Rather, this one and the real working swords, are described as 'through-hardened' - and Cheness's website explains that this is for a reason (touted as an advantage, not a disadvantage) - that this is the best choice for real working swords, superior to differentially hardening for that reason (needed for working swords). I dunno, but I guess the concern is chipping and cracking of the edge under hard use, if hardened to 58-60 RC like the Paul Chen and others at the edge, perhaps? I suppose the tradeoff of it not keeping an edge for the same length of time is worth it for a real working sword - you sacrifice hardness to acquire the tradeoff of toughness. But it doesn't say what hardness these are tempered to - anyone know, or have any more input on this subject? Look here:

http://www.chenessinc.com/steel.htm

[paradoxbox]

hi,

2 mekugi (tang pins) should be enough. 3 is overkill and not really necessary.

real japanese swords used 1 mekugi for about a thousand years without too many problems, but 2 is definately better for safety. the mekugi will probably NEVER break, but it's pretty likely a user will forget to put one of the mekugi in securely enough... the blade will fly out if you swing the sword.

metal mekugi would actually be pretty dangerous since they'd contract when it's cold and fall out. bamboo mekugi (what almost all mekugi are made from) are soaked in water before putting them in so they swell up and won't shrink like that in cold tempuratures.

differential temper looks nice on katana but they also generally produce weaker blades than through hardened blades. the reason is because the spine of the differentially tempered blades is softer, meant to absorb the stress of impact created by hitting your target.

sanmai (3 layers) blades are sort of similar to this. they are constructed by laminating a soft core with hard metals then forging them so the hasaki (edge) is left as very hard metal while the center of the sword (inside) is softer and able to withstand a bit of flex/bending.

no idea about that specific steel type but if they say it's a durable throught tempered spring steel i'd take their word for it. when they say that, they mean it's extremely durable, i.e. your crazy antics versus a tree branch probably won't kill your sword, whereas with a different type of metal (such as a differentially tempered blade) your blade would likely bend thus ending its cutting career.

i do not recommend covering the tsuka ito with laquer. that's a somewhat advanced project to be doing. you risk sacrificing the tsuka itself if you start experimenting, which is ok if you don't mind dropping bucks to make a new one if it doesn't work out the first time.

a proper grip on the sword and a proper swing of the sword will make the tsuka ito last longer than any laquer will. if you're not currently getting instruction you'll probably wind up tearing off the bottom of the tsuka ito and kashira (the bottom metal cap on your sword where the tsuka ito is tied into).

with proper grip that won't happen.

always remember; katana are meant for cutting people. if you start cutting targets harder than people would be, you're not going to get desirable results. it would be better to use a machete or saw for cutting trees/shrubs, slicing up plastic or pvc tubing or whatever.

good luck!

[samoand]

I've practiced with my wooden practice-sword at a high-society racquet club. I set up the ball server and hit tennis balls to practice timing. I got some REALLY dirty looks from the yuppies at the club, too.

good idea, great extension of a less dynamic fencing exercise - keep poking a golf ball hanging by a thread or a rubber band. I'd feel uncomfortable doing that at a racquet club though, for exactly the reason you stated.