Garand stovepipes

[chris in va]

Occasionally I get a misfeed in my 1945 CMP Garand using my reloads. The round gets jammed and comes out bent, with the case having a sizeable dent and the bullet bent in the case neck. Today I had one that bent so bad it split the neck.

I follow all standard reloading specs for the M1, 47gr 4895 with a 150gr bullet at 3.25 oal. The case mouth does not line up with the cannelure however.

What could be the issue?

One more thing, seldom if ever does the bolt easily drop when loading a fresh clip. I usually have to pull back and release a couple times before it chambers, or hit the handle pretty hard with the heel of my hand. It's been like this for the 5 years I've had it.

[Orlando]

While it is normal to have to assist the oprod closed with the heal of your hand you should not have to pull back and release a couple times before it chambers, or hit the handle pretty hard with the heel of hand
Does the rifle do the same thing with factory or surplus ammo?
I would guess you have a timing issue, worn internals
Before you go any further completely strip the rifle and clean to the smallest piece then properly grease and assemble. Replace the op rod spring with one from Orion 7 or Garand Gear
Also clean the chamber with a chamber brush
Look the follower arm and follower rod over carefully looking for anything bent or worn. Check the ears on the rod to see if they are bent
Report back and we can go from there

[James K]

The bent cases sound like short stroking, which could mean the op rod head, the gas cylinder, or the barrel bearings (where the gas cylinder fits over the barrel) or a combination is worn. As to hitting the op rod, are the clips good?

Jim

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by chris in va

Occasionally I get a misfeed in my 1945 CMP Garand using my reloads. The round gets jammed and comes out bent, with the case having a sizeable dent and the bullet bent in the case neck. Today I had one that bent so bad it split the neck.

I follow all standard reloading specs for the M1, 47gr 4895 with a 150gr bullet at 3.25 oal. The case mouth does not line up with the cannelure however.

What could be the issue?

One more thing, seldom if ever does the bolt easily drop when loading a fresh clip. I usually have to pull back and release a couple times before it chambers, or hit the handle pretty hard with the heel of my hand. It's been like this for the 5 years I've had it.

Does your m1 have problem feeding or ejecting? The title of the thread sounds like ejection problem, but your description sounds otherwise.

-TL

[chris in va]

Sorry, it's a feeding issue. The incoming round doesn't feed right and gets bent up badly. It's usually halfway into the clip.

Now I did some reading, most of my clips were loaded where the top round is on the left. I switched them all to top right last night per suggestions. Could this have an effect?

[Orlando]

Makes no differnce how rds are loaded unless you have a early receiver that never went through the 7th rd mod
I had a rifle that did the same exact thing. I suggest going back and read my previous post

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by chris in va

Sorry, it's a feeding issue. The incoming round doesn't feed right and gets bent up badly. It's usually halfway into the clip.

Now I did some reading, most of my clips were loaded where the top round is on the left. I switched them all to top right last night per suggestions. Could this have an effect?

Something is stopping the round. When it happens again, take a looksee into the breech and try to find out what that is. Are you using round nose or spritzer bullets?

-TL

[chris in va]

Spitzer boat tail. I get them at gun shows whenever I can find them, especially non-steel jacketed.

I had two yesterday, and best I can tell the round partly feeds into the chamber (or tries to) and the bolt comes along and jacks the case up at a 30ish degree angle, which bends the bullet and case neck all to heck. There's usually a bad dent halfway down the case as well, or a heck of a deep scrape.

[tangolima]

That's rather unusual. So the tip of the bullet has already gotten into the chamber. Does the stoppage always happen the first round of a full clip? Did you try to load a partial clip? When it happens, is the case still in the clip? Can you tell what causes the dent?

Now a word of caution. I would be scared to see my m1 having a round stopped like that during feed. The floating firing pin will surge forward, and the bridge won't be there to keep it from protruding out of bolt face. If the combination is right (or wrong), you will have an out-of-battery detonation. It is only me, but I won't be shooting that rifle till I figure out what's going on.

-TL

[James K]

Is it possible that there is not enough force being applied to the follower, so that the round is trying to feed from a position other than at the top of the clip? Again, that sounds like insufficient power being applied to the op rod.

Jim

[chris in va]

I have my rifle apart.

What shape should the gas cylinder hole be, where it matches with the barrel port? I have what appears to be a lot of carbon buildup and the hole is more like an oval.

I took a pick and chipped off most of the carbon and it appears it is supposed to be square?

The gas plug was really hard to get off as well...a lot of fouling.

[Orlando]

Same exact issue I had with my rifle, it was a timing issue

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by chris in va

I have my rifle apart.

What shape should the gas cylinder hole be, where it matches with the barrel port? I have what appears to be a lot of carbon buildup and the hole is more like an oval.

I took a pick and chipped off most of the carbon and it appears it is supposed to be square?

The gas plug was really hard to get off as well...a lot of fouling.

Check the coil spring. Make sure it is no shorter than 19” and the coils are evenly spaced.

M1 has this weird design feature that the follower is powered by the recoil spring, the same one that power the op rod and the bolt. At the end of the gas stroke, the op rod is accelerated forward by the spring. That acceleration momentarily reduces the upward force of the follower. It could make the round go nose up. If the bullet tip misses the chamber mouth, the round would stop. That's why I asked whether the round ever made its way into the chamber at all.

Hope this helps, and again be careful if you decide to put live rounds in that rifle. Out-of-battery ignition IS a detonation.

-TL

[Bart B.]

If the insides of the clip are not clean to allow easy up pushing of the clipped rounds by the follower, the bolt may slide over the rim ot the one at the top pushing it down which moves the case body off the upper lip letting the bolt slide over it. All of which is why I always polished all the black phosphate coating off my Garand clips (inside and out) so they looked shiny blued like commercial rifle barreled actions. That made them slide easily into and out of the action as well as let cartridge cases slide out very easily. Plus, their smooth outside and inside surfaces made cleaning all the crud off of the ejected ones an easy job.

Twist some fine steel wool around a bore brush chucked in an electric drill. Spin it all over the inside and outside of the clips. People will think you bought expensive $5 each custom made bright blued ones.

Sometimes the op rod short strokes from gas leaks in the gas cylinder. Or with reduced loads. Both have known to cause stovepipes. And the timing of the action can be off and cause 7th round stovepiping. You'll need a timing gauge to check it out; or find someone who has one to use.

[chris in va]

Good idea about polishing the clips! I never considered that. I will check the spring length too. At least the coils are evenly spaced.

Another thing, the gas cylinder is positioned by the wood (forearm?). It seems the cylinder port hole is a little low in relation to the barrel port. It's not cut off, but not centered...if that makes any sense. Should there be a shim under the cylinder where it meets the forearm?

[Bart B.]

The M1's gas cylinder is positioned only by the splined ring on its top that fits onto the splined barrel. The lock ring should also be tight when tightened against the gas cylinder and the gas plug tight, too.

Don't shim anything to the gas cylinder. That part has to be totally free from any contact with the barrel behind the mating splines as well as the upper hand guard (fore end?). The gas cylinder ring around the barrel at its back end also has to be free from touching the barrel.

Garand gas cylinders are "free floating" for best accuracy and cycling.

[chris in va]

Ok, the lock ring stops about 1/4 turn before it lines up with the gas cylinder. I have to unscrew it one turn before I can lock everything down.

Now once I tighten the gas plug the gap between the cylinder and lock nut closes...is that normal?

[chris in va]

Here's a pic I took today.



It bent the round up pretty good.

[Orlando]

Yup, exactly same thing my rifle was doing

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by chris in va

Here's a pic I took today.



It bent the round up pretty good.

The bolt actually got under the shell? That's rather different from the mental picture I have had based on your descriptions. Was it the last round in the clip? Does the rifle have tendency to eject the clip before the last round is fired?

-TL

[chris in va]

Nope, that's all it does. Typically it's a round halfway through the clip.

Orlando, did a new spring fix your problem? I'll give Garand Gear a call.

[tangolima]

Did you try bending the lips of the clip together a bit? Looks like they let go of the shells prematurely, before the bullet and part of the neck get into the chamber.

-TL

[Orlando]

Nope it was a timing issue. I suggested a new op rod spring becuase if it is weak you may replace worn parts and still have issue and you will be chasing your tail looking for the problem
Atleast pull the op rod spring and measure it. It should be free of kinks or bends , no flat/worn spots and measure between 19"- 20"1/4 . If it isnt in spec replace it.
My rifle did the same thing, it drove me nuts trying to figure it out. I inspected every part and couldnt see anything out of spec. Rifle even went back to CMP ,they sent it back supposeably fixed and it still malfunctioned.
I put it away and forgot about it. One day I was looking at it and I saw the ear on the follower rod had a very slight bend in it. It was just enough to throw off timing.
Moral of the story is inspect all the internals "very carefully" and then look at them again. Check for anything that looks worn or "bent"
It very well could be the spring since rifle malfunctions halfway through the enbloc. As the enbloc emptys there is less pressure pushing up on it. If spring is weak this will only make it worse
Just my 2 cents