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Old September 2, 2019, 12:00 AM   #26
Dufus
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Check out the Hodgdon website they have several loads there . They list 9.0 grs of H4227 as a begining load and 10.0 as a max while staying below +P pressures.
That was the second biggest mistake I ever made.....using H4227 in the 38 Special.
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Old September 2, 2019, 11:45 AM   #27
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3.2 of Bullseye was a factory duplication load for several decades.
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Old September 17, 2019, 10:06 AM   #28
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The VMD chart by Lee is my guide for relative case fill. Bullseye and Unique are close but Red Dot is significantly higher. Green Dot should work too, but these may still not be enough to view powder easily. Clays is relatively high VMD but the chart doesn't show Clay Dot. Trailboss is the champ. Newer powders are not shown. I still have a good supply of SR4756, which was one of the higher VMDs.

I just stocked two 2-pounders of Trail Boss from Powder Valley. I rarely buy powder locally, so there is your core problem. Hazmats for significant quantities are easily amortized across many loads. Get used to loading with more than just pocket money and small supplies.
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Old September 19, 2019, 04:50 PM   #29
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3.0 grains of Red Dot
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Old September 19, 2019, 09:53 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by zxcvbob View Post
231 is a great powder for .38 Special. Probably does not fill the case all that well for except for wadcutters, but that doesn't matter. I think it fills well enough that you can visually check for a double-charge. I also like Unique, Bullseye, American Select, and all of the "Dot" powders except Blue Dot.

Titegroup is not a good powder for .38 Special with cast bullets. It might be good with jacketed bullets, I don't know. It also does not give the case-fill that you want.

If you want bulky, try Herco. It's a little slower than Unique and works great in magnum revolver cartridges with lead bullets, but I think it will down-load to .38 Special pressures just fine.
Why don’t you like Titegroup with cast Boolits?
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Old September 20, 2019, 01:06 AM   #31
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Why don’t you like Titegroup with cast Boolits?
It's way too smoky, the gun gets hot too fast (I think those are related), and the powder is hard to visually check in the cases because it's so dark and there's not much of it.

I think it might be a good powder for .380 and 9mm with jacketed or plated bullets, but I mostly load revolver cases and I use cast bullets for everything.
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Old September 20, 2019, 03:58 AM   #32
J.G. Terry
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I have been shooting 38 Special in our little matches lately. Using now the Lyman 150gr. SWC(358477) using 5.5 grains of Accurate #5 has worked very well. The handguns were a five screw Combat Masterpiece and a custom built K38. My normal wad cutter load is 3grs. of Bullseye for excellent accuracy. My Smith 19 is very finicky with 38 Special loads but give excellent accuracy from a Ransom Rest with the WC loads. I'm not saying the #5 loads and the ultimate but does work very well at +P levels. I realize this is not exactly what OP is asking but close.

Addendum: I have been using NRA formula 50/50 lube. The smart arses came to ask what grade of blackpowder was I shooting. The lube may be the major smoke maker
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Old September 20, 2019, 08:33 AM   #33
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I have never had a problem loading on a single stage press but have to be very careful on my 550B, it's hard to see the powder in the .38 case. Right now I'm using WST and there is a lot of room left in the case. A light of some kind is a good idea.
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Old September 20, 2019, 12:14 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zxcvbob View Post
It's way too smoky, the gun gets hot too fast (I think those are related), and the powder is hard to visually check in the cases because it's so dark and there's not much of it.

I think it might be a good powder for .380 and 9mm with jacketed or plated bullets, but I mostly load revolver cases and I use cast bullets for everything.
I agree that it does get hot fast and doesn't take up much room in the case.
I do like Titegroup in 9mm using plated bullets, but again the gun gets hot fast.
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Old September 20, 2019, 03:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete2
have to be very careful on my 550B, it's hard to see the powder in the .38 case.
Not to provide an advert, but I got the LED press light Inline Fabrication makes when they had a sale going on and have found it worthwhile. The need for it is due to aging. By the time we get to 60 our eye's lenses are slightly yellowed and can block 70% of the blue light we got at 18. Our brain adjusts to the color shift, but our night vision disappears and in dark places, a little additional light goes a long way.

The older I get, the cleaner burning products have more appeal. A compromise would be something like Hodgdon Universal. It is light in color, having no graphite coating, so it is easier to see even if it is down in the case. The relative burn rate is somewhere between Bullseye and Unique, which makes for a good .38 Special powder.
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Old October 11, 2019, 02:44 PM   #36
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4.6 grains of Unique
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Old October 11, 2019, 04:20 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. O'Heir View Post
"...leaves a lot of room in the case..." That's not a big deal. 5.7 to 6.3 wouldn't be the tested load if it mattered. 2.7 of Bullseye in a .38 or .357 with a 148 grain WC does that too. Makes no difference. Oh and that 2.7ish of Bullseye has been the target load for .38 Special for eons.
The Max load of Bullseye with a cast 158 is a mighty 3.5 grains. That means the start load is 3.1.
It is only a big deal if the person is concerned about double charges for some reason.
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Old October 11, 2019, 04:44 PM   #38
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Glad someone threw out Bullseye. I'm sitting here thinking BLC/2 and what I eally mean is Bullseye. Many years ago when I shot a lot more than I do anymore, my pet 38 spec load was 148gr WC with 2.5grs Bullseye! Bot was that nice to shoot!
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Old October 14, 2019, 12:32 AM   #39
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Unique

I'm believing that Unique was specifically developed to replace BP in the borderline early BP cartridges like the .38 spl. If the case would even hold a double double charge of Unique at any practical charge weight, one should notice it easily. Seating the slug would feel goofy too I'm thinking.

I'm thinking too that a lot of .38's were blown with double charges of fast powder like Bullseye. All the reason I need to load bulky.
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Old October 14, 2019, 07:24 AM   #40
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A different powder than Trailboss is not really the issue. Nothing is really comparable in smokeless. When case fill is the goal, short of black powder or a substitute smoker, what is needed is to mail order Trailboss. I got my last from Powder Valley in two-pounders.

We can debate how much case fill is needed and various degrees of fill by this powder or that, how to better view the powder charge, etc., but filling a case with smokeless requires Trailboss, and obtaining it might mean mail order with hazmat fee and shipping cost. If one commits to use of the powder and has credit, you order it and the deal is done.
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