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Old June 10, 2018, 04:19 PM   #1
KEYBEAR
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Need an Answer

A friend showed up at my home this afternoon with a problem . He just started reloading ( 44 Mag ) and had this first box of reloads . The first six he put in the cylinder did not fire . The primers had a very lite hit I tried one in an old Ruger and it fired but the primer was not hit very hard .

His Revolver a used New Model Ruger Super Blackhawk was bought off Armslist . The seller told him the gun was as new with all new springs and trigger job . This made me think a lite Main spring but why my gun did not hit the primer as hard as I like .

I ask what primer Winchester large Pistol . Looking at a primer I removed from his loaded round it was Green in the center . My small Primers also Winchester are not Green . I think he was using Winchester Large Rifle Primers


My question is. Is the Winchester Rifle Primers CUP harder then Winchester large Pistol Primers . I do not remember anymore but think it is .
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Old June 10, 2018, 05:44 PM   #2
std7mag
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Simple answer...
Yes..

Large rifle and large pistol primers are different. The cup on the rifle primer should be thicker to help withstand the higher pressures that most rifle cartridges deal with.
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Old June 10, 2018, 06:06 PM   #3
mehavey
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If he put a rifle rifle primer in the pistol, it would not seat flush with the case head -- immediately obvious as the cylinder might not even close.

OP: I'd prime some your own cases w/ pistol primers (empty) and see if they fire.
(Note, the primers will back out -- don't woryy about i)
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Old June 10, 2018, 07:15 PM   #4
KEYBEAR
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This guy is a friend he bought 100 new Starline cases . The Primers were ok and did not look or feel high . But his gun or mine did not put much of a dent in the primer . I just put new springs in my Three Screw and it set it off but not the dent I thought it should . The good was we pulled the rest of the bullets (14) and I deprimed them . He only bought 100 primers to try and thought he had Pistol primers but did not look at the box . lesson learned
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Old June 10, 2018, 07:55 PM   #5
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Oil the gun. Try again.
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Old June 10, 2018, 08:00 PM   #6
Brian Pfleuger
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The difference in primers may or may not create a dimensional problem. I'm not sure I've ever seen a chart of Winchester primer dimensions, but for CCI, there is an overlap of allowable dimensions between rifle and pistol primers.

The shortest allowable LR would actually be .002 shorter than tallest LP, while the tallest LR would be .015 taller than the shortest allowable LP.

That, combined with the tolerance in the primer pocket depth (0.117-0.123 for LP) makes visual or interference verification pretty impossible.

However, from what I've seen... it is highly likely that the cup of a LR primer is 0.005-0.008 thicker than a LP primer.... so the shallow indent and lack of ignition implies that the wrong primer is likely the cause.
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Old June 10, 2018, 08:14 PM   #7
KEYBEAR
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He will not be loading anymore Rifle Primers for his Revolvers . I have used Winchester Primers for over 50 years (dam did I post that) yes I am an old fart . I like the Winchester Primer I use them in all my loading and have zero problems . I think last year I used over two or three 5000 Primer cases in my Revolver .
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Old June 11, 2018, 04:32 AM   #8
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If this "friend" inadvertently or intentionally substituted large rifle primers for large pistol primers, I would NOT shoot any of his reloads (or even stand close when he shoots them).
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Old June 11, 2018, 06:41 AM   #9
J.G. Terry
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Springs?

I would suggest if the problem persist to look at the main spring. Too light a hammer fall could cause misfires. That, with rifle primers would do it.
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Old June 11, 2018, 07:39 AM   #10
KEYBEAR
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Yes I think most know that and it was a mistake one he will not make again soon .
I have some Revolvers that have lite main springs and I do use a primer that I know will work . (most of the time)
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Old June 11, 2018, 12:21 PM   #11
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Rifle primers are not so hard that they require a rifle to set 'em off. Difference between a large rifle and pistol primer is the depth of the pocket and the minimum diameter is .0005" larger with the large rifle. So it should not fit in a .44 Mag primer pocket. Andit'll be high if you can get one in.
https://ballistictools.com/articles/...d-diameter.php
Something isn't right with the revolver. I'd almost bet the 'new' springs are the cause. Especially as it went bang in the other revolver(a primer doesn't need to be hit "very hard" to work. It just needs to work, reliably.) A Ruger factory hammer spring runs 23 pounds according to Wolff Springs. Wolff sells 'em down to 15 pounds.
If your buddy sends the thing to Ruger for service, they automatically replace any non-factory parts. Means the trigger job will be voided though.
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Old June 11, 2018, 01:04 PM   #12
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I do not have a trigger pull gage and my friends Ruger felt lite . I put a Stock Ruger Spring in the friends gun yesterday and yes 23 # it hits hard . This guy is ok but we had THE TALK and the importance of knowing what you are using before you start . We all make mistakes he did and now he knows it .
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