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November 24, 2017, 03:05 PM | #1 |
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200 yds -- Pistol -- "Gee Officer, I thought she was a deer...."
YGBSM....
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/24...-for-deer.html > "...western New York shot and killed a woman out walking her dogs > Wednesday evening after mistaking her for a deer, officials said. > > Thomas Jadlowski, 34, believed he saw a deer in a field about 200 yards > away from him when he shot Rosemary Billquist in the hip with a high- > powered pistol. This goes so unbelievably beyond "mistake" on so many levels that I have to wonder what "...the rest of the story" will be. That said -- and with the hope that The System throws the book at him -- it also goes to once again demonstrate how fatal a lower-torso/pelvic GSW can be. This thread is over a year old. It was reopened to post an update. Might be worthwhile to read the update post on page 3 of the thread before posting a response. Just sayin... Last edited by JohnKSa; January 17, 2019 at 01:11 AM. Reason: Old Thread Warning |
November 24, 2017, 03:07 PM | #2 |
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(If we believe the article at face value...)
200 yards with a pistol, not being able to see or know what he was shooting at, who knows what else? This is the kind of guy that gives responsible gun owners a really bad name. I sincerely hope he at least gets a jail felony to prevent him from ever holding a gun again.
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November 24, 2017, 04:15 PM | #3 |
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He shot her way after quitting time. It was completely dark when he shot her. So far no charges have been filed. The DEC is calling it a "hunting accident". I can't believe it. This person should be in jail and charged with murder. She was shot 40 minutes after sunset!
This isn't an accident, she was shot as a result of him committing a crime...hunting illegally. He claims she was 200 yards away when he shot her with his pistol....BS. It was too dark to even see her at that distance at that time. I can't believe the NYS Police turned this over to the DEC. |
November 24, 2017, 04:20 PM | #4 |
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I sometimes hunt with a scoped .357. About max range, in the light, is 100 yds. It's hard for me to believe he could hit anything @ 200yds in the dark. It must be bad reportage.
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November 24, 2017, 04:51 PM | #5 |
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Not condemning deer hunting but it seems I've read
through the years quite a few stories of people being mistaken for deer by "deer hunters." I think a certain breed of hunter gets so frustrated by not being able to bag an animal that he/she becomes anxious to shoot and perceives glimmers of game that really are not. I've been told by people in Wisconsin that during deer season with thousands upon thousands out hunting, it isn't even safe to stay indoors because some will shoot randomly at or toward buildings out of frustration. |
November 24, 2017, 05:11 PM | #6 |
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first of all, I'm not in any way condoning this guy's behavior. But deer fever can make a person see things that aren't there.
I've done it once or twice myself. A few years ago I was elk hunting and just a few minutes before sunset I saw what I thought was a nice bull elk moving through some trees a few hundred yards away. The bad light, distance, and the desire to see an elk conspired to make me see what I wanted to see. It turned out to be a couple hunters calling it a day. No, I didn't take a shot at them; I had been glassing, so my rifle was actually in my lap at the time. Anyway, I agree with a previous poster; if he really did take a shot after quitting time, he should have the book thrown at him. Twice. |
November 24, 2017, 05:55 PM | #7 | |
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Not defending the guy. But the timing of the shot isn't really the issue. I don't know what the law says in NY, but in most of the rest of the country he would have been at most 10 minutes past legal shooting time and it would have been possible to see a deer at that time.
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November 24, 2017, 06:28 PM | #8 | |
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November 24, 2017, 08:59 PM | #9 | |
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November 24, 2017, 10:01 PM | #10 | |
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The hours in my state are 1/2 hour before sunrise to sunset. New York hours are sunrise to sunset. http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/8305.html Last edited by Aguila Blanca; November 26, 2017 at 09:54 AM. Reason: typo |
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November 25, 2017, 07:07 AM | #11 | |
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The Encore pistols chambered in 'rifle' cartridges will accurately shoot well past that... |
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November 25, 2017, 07:32 AM | #12 |
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Is it more likely he was shooting at the dog and missed? 200 yards in dim light w a pistol? Not saying it can't be done but it does take more skill then the avg guy.
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November 25, 2017, 08:00 AM | #13 |
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NYS goes by a multiple use practice .Anyone can be there =I can be hunting deer and in the same area someone can be out walking their dogs ! Yes , it's not good to be hunting deer when suddenly a hiker shows up ,not even dressed in 'hunter orange' .
The woman , even after hours ,should have been dressed in orange and her dogs also ! The article doesn't state what kind of pistol or cartridge. As for the comment "who hunts deer with a pistol ?" I DO ! as do thousands of others . Handgun hunting of big game started about 1970. I use a 44mag revolver , iron sights [no scope] and that's perfectly appropriate out to 50-60 yds. The deer ? all have been shot only once !
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November 25, 2017, 11:11 AM | #14 |
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Bottom line is that he owns that bullet regardless of how dark it was.
Now he needs a lawyer. |
November 25, 2017, 11:43 AM | #15 | |
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That means where the woman was shot, there was no "multi-use", because there was not, legally, anyone supposed to be hunting there. Why are you so intent on laying some or all of the blame on the victim? 40 minutes after sunset, would blaze orange be anymore visible in darkness than any other color? During legal hunting hours and on property where hunting is known to be happening, it is wise for anyone in the field to wear blaze orange. But this was not the case, and for a non-hunter to believe they were at risk of being shot in a scenario as such would be really grasping at straws....and this is what you seem to be doing. The guy was an idiot. He was hunting after hours, trespassing and did not identify his target. Even if it was a deer, in those conditions, with a handgun, he was counting on hope and a prayer to even hit a deer, and it would have been an illegal kill. The woman was not at fault in any way and trying to lay any blame at all on her says a lot for where one's idea of hunting is all about. I was in the field last week virtually every day from sunup to sundown. Didn't hardly a day go by where I didn't hear shooting before legal hunting hours and/or after. Folks feeling so pressured to get a deer, they feel they have to "bend" the rules to get one. That poor woman died because some idiot broke multiple laws in a vain attempt to make himself feel Macho, and not appear a failure, in front of his peers. He needs to pay the piper. Last edited by buck460XVR; November 25, 2017 at 12:32 PM. |
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November 25, 2017, 11:55 AM | #16 |
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My father-in-law told me that he was hunting in Pennsylvania with some buddies. They were on one side of a creek. A guy on the other side took a shot at them at a distance. They yelled and screamed. He took another shot. So they fired a volley towards him (not at him). Then he got the point. People can be idiots.
This guy should go to jail for a long time.
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November 25, 2017, 12:48 PM | #17 | ||
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Why this guy isn't in jail is beyond me. There is a case in Maine from years ago that just breaks my heart. Karen Wood was shot in her own back yard by a hunter. She was killed. No jail for him. Everyone "knows" you don't go outside dressed like she was dressed, right? http://outthere.bangordailynews.com/...n-maine-woods/
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November 25, 2017, 01:04 PM | #18 |
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Keep in mind, this isn't the only recent hunting accident. These are all from November, some in the last few days...
Maine, another woman killed by hunters... http://www.wcsh6.com/news/local/woma...dent/486831900 AZ Fireman killed in CO ... https://www.azcentral.com/story/new....ado/885285001/ Guy shot by B-I-L in NY on Thanksgiving Day... http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/....ounty-20171124 Guy shot by fellow hunters in WI ... http://www.sheboyganpress.com/story/...ent/890477001/ NH Bicyclist shot by hunter... http://www.concordmonitor.com/Police...trail-13902620 KY man killed by hunter ... http://www.wdrb.com/story/36916526/....inridge-county In other news, Marin Miller of Ohio is charged with reckless endangerment because he mistook a fricking brown truck for a deer and killed it with a single shot. He illegally shot across a roadway for which he received an additional charge. http://www.erienewsnow.com/story/369...utauqua-county Maybe if the truck has been dressed in hunter orange...{sarcasm}
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November 25, 2017, 01:13 PM | #19 | |
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00 NOC stated:
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These are not people that we want representing the rest of responsible gun owners. While some may call that callous, there are enough anti's looking for poster children to kill gun rights for responsible gun owners.
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November 25, 2017, 03:59 PM | #20 |
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More than 50 years ago, my father was giving the NRA Hunter Safety Class, several times every fall. He did it for a at least a couple decades, and from the time my brother and I were big enough to be useful carrying things, we helped. This was in New York state.
State law required either completion of the NRA Hunter safety course, or a hunting license from another state, in order to issue a hunting license (small or big game). I cannot see the legal requirements being any less now than they were then, so if the "hunter" who shot that woman had a license, it means that someone explained the safety rules and game laws to him, at least ONCE. Therefore, what ever he did, or didn't do, cannot be ascribed to ignorance, but to willful choice. Period. Some folks simply make bad choices...and tragically, sometimes other people suffer from them. A couple of points in the linked article, which are not being mentioned in the discussion, so far, are #1, the "40 minutes after sunset" is the time the shooting was reported. Note that, reported, not the time the shot was taken. Also, people are assuming that "after sunset" means after dark, and this isn't necessarily the case. After official sunset time, there is twilight, a period of lessening light, but still allowing visibility for some time, dependent on local conditions. THEN comes full dark. SO, there could have been enough light to see his target, when he made the shot. At this point, we simply don't know. The other item not being mentioned in this discussion (until now) is that the report said the hunter tried to give the woman medical aid, after reaching her, and realizing he hadn't shot a deer. This tends to counter theories that the he deliberately, knowingly shot a person, in my mind. Of course, we don't have all the relevant details, at this point, but it seems to have been an actual accident, rather than a deliberate homicide. One of the big PR problems we face as gunowners, and hunters is the press's instant and automatic labeling. Anyone who steps off the pavement with a gun is a "hunter", and it doesn't matter to the press if they are an ethical, legal hunter, or a deliberate poacher, or just an irresponsible idiot who isn't in the city. Likewise, any and every one who has a gun in their hands is a "gun owner", (at least for the time they are holding the gun) and it matters little to the press if they are legal or not. Since a person died, as a direct result of his actions, I believe some level of manslaughter conviction is appropriate. One shouldn't get a complete pass, just because you (honestly) thought it was a deer. Not Murder, (assuming the "I thought it was a deer" is believed), but not an "oh well, hunting accident, so sad, but not your fault" pass on what happened.
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November 25, 2017, 04:16 PM | #21 | ||
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The truck caught my attention, as well:
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Of the 50 United States, only ONE has 'sunrise to sunset' legal shooting hours for big game (or deer specifically). That is NY. A few others have very complicated and variable shooting hours, such as MA, AK (due to extreme changes in day length), GA, OR, and WI (their "zones"). All but two of the other states - that's 42 total (84%) - operate based on the Civil Twilight principle, and define legal hours as 30 minutes (or 1/2 hour) before sunrise to 30 minutes (or 1/2 hour) after sunset. WA operates on a schedule of legal shooting hours that does not align perfectly, but roughly equates to the common 30/30 "Civil Twilight". AZ uses a "daylight shooting hours" definition that basically says, "If you can see well enough to identify the target, you can shoot it." Nearly all of the above do have some exceptions to those hours for very special units, or very special seasons. But the vast majority of seasons, units, and zones adhere to the basic state regulations.
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Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe. Last edited by FrankenMauser; November 25, 2017 at 04:21 PM. |
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November 25, 2017, 05:10 PM | #22 | |
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November 25, 2017, 05:43 PM | #23 | |
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Given that this particular shooting happened in New York, other states' laws aren't relevant, so there's no reason to bring them into this discussion.
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November 25, 2017, 06:46 PM | #24 | ||
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November 25, 2017, 07:24 PM | #25 | |
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