Proper Machinegun Shooting Technique

[Tucker 1371]

It was mentioned in Machinegun Tony's M14 thread that a lot of folks incorrectly assume FA fire is useless and innaccurate because they don't know how to apply proper machine gun shooting technique.
In the Marine Corps I was taught only how to accurately fire a belt fed weapon from the prone position on a bipod. I consider myself to be pretty dang effective with an M249 out to 800m with irons from this position. But I only have the foggiest of an idea how to be most effective with, say, a subgun at CQB ranges.

Would anyone on here care to explain in detail what is the proper technique for controlling full auto recoil from the standing or kneeling positions?

[rickyrick]

As short bursts as possible

I've used crew served weapons quite a bit.

Not sure about m14 or fal types. I'm sure there's a technique besides a Rambo stance lol

[Machineguntony]

I'm not a full auto expert. I just shoot a lot of it, and I'm more knowledgable than the average person on this issue, but I am far from being an expert.

Here is how I do it.

1. Use an athletic stance, like a football linebacker stance. Position your feet a little more than shoulder width apart. Your weak side foot should be about 1-2 feet on front of your other foot.

Do not use a semi auto shooting stance, like a Weaver shooting stance. By using a Weaver stance, you allow your upper body to be used as a fulcrum by the recoil, thereby causing your upper body to be pushed back by the guns' recoil. The Weaver stance feels comforting because you think that your rear foot is going to push back and brace you against the muzzle rise. This is a false comfort, as the muzzle rise will come as a result of your back being forced, by the recoil, to straighten up; and your feet won't help you with that.

Another important reason to use this foot stance is that you will be able to effectively move and shoot. I was taught by my instructor to shoot and move, and not be a stationary target, which is an important component of CBQ. By spacing and taking the foot position I described above, you can move and walk by doing the 'tactical shuffle', which is a stable moving and shooting position. Also, this position will allow you to seamlessly transition and move on your knees, while ducking, which my instructor called the 'tactical duck walk'.

2. Shift slightly more weight onto your front foot. The weak side leg, that is in front, should have 60% of the weight.

3. Bend your knees in an athletic manner. Do not lock your knees.

4. Lean forward slightly, meaning to cant your spine forward at a 15-20 degree angle. This step is very important. Standing straight up with cause you to quickly lose control of the gun, once full auto starts. Do not have a straight up stance, as this is the primary cause why the second shot will go above the target.

5. Shoulder the gun. The gun should be shouldered on the same half of your body that has your rear foot. When shouldering the gun, bring it in deep into your shoulder/chest joint. An alternative way to is shoulder the gun center chest and high up on your chest. The advantage to this is that you don't have to duck your head into the sight, as looking down at the ground is a deadly sin in CBQ (the ground isn't going to shoot you and kill you, so you should never be ducking your head and looking at the ground; rather look forward to where your enemy might be...wise words from my instructor).

If you take the above positioning, you can mag dump with ease. Concurrently, you can then learn trigger control, but trigger control isn't a substitute for proper technique. If you just control the gun by using trigger control, you might be hiding bad shooting technique.

Here is a YouTube video of a guy who is totally shooting the gun incorrectly, and then blaming the gun.

https://youtu.be/NvQSN4aBGPs

Compared to this guy who runs off the entire belt...

https://youtu.be/5aepTyJ_fsg

Both guys are shooting M240s.

MP5s are easier, as the recoil is minimal.

[9x19]

I'd love to play with one of these (too bad Mike Dillon didn't get these on the market before '86, and I wasn't born super wealthy!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLEGE7k9FD4

[Machineguntony]

Btw, if you own an M60 or M240, please consider NOT shooting the gun from the bipod. It will eventually damage the gun. Military treatment of machine guns and civilian treatment is totally different due to this fact: the military can throw away their guns and buy new ones, whereas civilians, due to the May'86 cut off, can never replace their guns.

Quote Thomas Hoel, author of The Civilian M60 Machine Gun Owner's Guide:

'The use of any bi-pod supported firing stance, with any M60 variant, may look appealing, but be forewarned that continued use of the weapon from that deployment can become a headache when the inevitable excess wear occurs. For the CIVILIAN owner-operator then, for maximum service lifespan and use of any M60 variant, the use of the self-contained bi-pod is NOT recommended.'

Using the bipod will eventually loosen the trunion and damage the gun. If you need to shoot it with support, use a tripod.

If you own an M60 or M240, it's your gun, so do whatever you want; but remember, we can never have more transferrable machine guns, so we have to protect these guns for all future generations.

[Tinbucket]

The M16 is easy to control. When I first fired it climbed on me and subsequent times I learned to be ready for it
Holding the sights, on a target and squeezing the trigger, the first shot was on and about the fourth shot it was hitting where I was wanting it. Never tired to shoot a group on auto. Don't know if I know anyone that has.
The M14 was a bear to shoot auto on the shoulder and sight it, or for me anyway.
Three round burst are not hard and you can keep it on target but I couldn't put three rounds into one hole either.
It gave me a headache from the powder and recoil.
The .50 well I did good to get three shots off on target. I don't think I could ever do like what they show in the movies.
In basic we had to shoot one can with a .50 with shoulder stirrups. They wanted to get through and though we were supposed to shoot three round burst they had us empty the can in one burst. I thought my shoulders weree breaking.
Maybe I was wimp but I could carry four sacks ,of cement @75# each, two under each arm before I ever reached 16.

[5.56RifleGuy]

I find it easier to shoot a full auto rifle by moving it onto my pectoral area rather than the sholder crease area. It helps me manage the recoil. I do this shooting my vepr 12 also.

[AK103K]

Pistol and smaller rifle calibers are pretty easy to control, as long as you dont fight the gun, and "try" to hold the gun on target. The tecnique is more like using a strong hose, and keep willing it onto the target.

If you try to hold the gun on target and fight the recoil impulse, the gun will usually run up and off in the direction of the strong hand. The key is to "relax", and keep bringing the gun back onto where you want the rounds to go, like spraying a hose. Once you understand and get it down, which is usually only a mag or two, full mag dumps solidly on target are really pretty easy.

Tonys stance is pretty much it, a comfortable fighting stance. Rather than looking through the sights, I look just over them, and focus on the target. Shooting in bursts is best, but as I said, you can do full mag dumps pretty easy.

Ive taught quite a few people over the years to shoot them, and usually had most keeping all their rounds on target at 7-10 yards in just a couple of mags. Both my boys were shooting my MP5 by the time they were 5, and had no troubles.

When a group of us used to get together regularly, one of our little contests was to see who could keep the most rounds from one mag, on a paper plate at 10 yards. One pull of the trigger. The MP5 is like cheating. Even with the open bolts, its really not all that hard, but the MAC isnt the best choice.

The MAC's arent all that hard either though. This was the last target I shot with mine, right before I got rid of it. This is 2 mag dumps (25 rounds each), at around 10 yards. Two pulls of trigger, total time, about 3 seconds....

[44 AMP]

There is a WWII Army training film showing an instructor shooting an M3 Grease Gun with the gun supported only by the palm of his hand. The gun DOES NOT climb, indeed, it does not go anywhere at all! Its ALL about technique.

[JimPage]

I haven't shot a full auto small arm in decades, but when I did long ago, I found I could get much better scores shooting short bursts, say 3-6 rounds. It didn't reduce the amount fired much, but it did improve the hits.
Just saying...

[sicumj]

When I was on the SO we had two full auto weapon types in our armory. M 16's A1 style and 45 cal Thompsons. I shot both but carried a Thompson with me. It climbed on me at first but by positioning my body similar to Machineguntonys method, leaning in on the gun and short bursts it became a pretty accurate weapon for me. The rounds at close range hitting a tree were a sight to behold. I preferred the straight grip in the front over the pistol grip.

[Machineguntony]

I love that the NFA forum is active on full auto topics.

AK, you should know that you can't kill the Daywalker (a great movie, btw).

[Tucker 1371]

Awesome, thanks for the input y'all. I thought I was doing some things right, like leaning into the weapon. But my footwork is a little off. I personally like to center the gun in my chest because I've notice a Mac 10 will start to pull to the left if I shoulder it normally (I'm a cross dominant shooter).

I've shot a M1A1 Thompson rental before and I couldn't keep more than a 4 round burst on target, but my feet were probably a little too square.

Machineguntony- don't own an M60, super jealous of you with your E6 model, it is probably at the top of my list of guns to own some day. Hate that about the bipod though, I can lay down some darned accurate fire out to a surprising range with a belt fed from a bipod. Guess I'll have to remain content beating up the Marine Corps' guns when they allow me to.

[Erno86]

Try to control the gun with an aggressive reaction hand grip, by having a constant reference point on the forearm like a grip pod. Grip near the forward part of the forearm. Try to get your reaction hand thumb a bit above an lined with the barrel, while having it pointing towards the target, with the wrist locked downward at a 45 degree angle --- combined with the Isosceles stance.

The gun will want to pull slightly to the left --- so me being a right handed shooter --- will try to give my reaction hand slight pressure to the right.

Don't have any part of your buttstock over your shoulder...keep it deep in your shoulder pocket.