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Old January 18, 2021, 01:43 AM   #26
Shadow9mm
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I agree. have had some water in primer pockets in the past. doing manual drying, cases are de-primes before getting tumbled. I would prefer not to de-prime first, but I am worries about getting a pin stuck in a flash hold and breaking a decapper.

drying
step 1, frankford wet/dry separator, gets most of the pins and the water off.
step 2, spread them out on a large towel drying them as I roll them around with the towel.
step 3, gather the towel into a bag and shake them a few times
step 4, put them in a cardboard box with silica gel and let them sit for a day or 2, shake them around in the morning and evening
Done

I have yet to find water in a flash hole or casing after ding this, I know the food dehydrators are faster, but I'm not spending more on one right now.
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Old January 18, 2021, 11:49 AM   #27
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Two weeks.

Forgetting you have a tumbler running in shop and going on vacation for a long two weeks. Brass was very clean, but the necks were peened over to point cases were short after trimming peened area off cases.

Still using the 700 rounds of 223REM cases with projectiles that need no crimp.
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Old January 18, 2021, 01:05 PM   #28
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FART pins do not get caught in primer holes. Depriming first helps brass drain, and lets primer pockets get cleaned.
How long? How dirty? How clean? One to two hours, maybe three max. I spend more time rinsing than tumbling.
I use Reverse Osmosis water to rinse, then strain and sun dry. Water remaining in brass causes pins to cling. No water spots with RO water.
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Old January 18, 2021, 02:19 PM   #29
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I have put cases on a old towel and shake them up good to empty water. Then pore them out on the towel on a full sun day. The brass heats up very well and dry's out completely in a hour or two. I was surprised how hot the sun gets cases.
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Old January 18, 2021, 02:19 PM   #30
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I have put cases on a old towel and shake them up good to empty water. Then pore them out on the towel on a full sun day. The brass heats up very well and dry's out completely in a hour or two. I was surprised how hot the sun gets cases.
This is my plan in the summer, however it is winter.
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Old January 19, 2021, 01:57 AM   #31
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1-1/2hrs from this to that . These are very tarnished and is what I usually start with . I've found 1-1/2hrs gets these really clean . I've done 1hr and the primer pockets still had some fouling residue . Once I've got them this clean and then fire in a bolt gun they may only get a 30min wet tumble before sizing and a dry tumble after to remove lube .

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Old January 19, 2021, 08:55 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by 9mmand223only
2) pre-wash your brass in soap, manual tumbler like in a bucket you shake around, etc. You want to get that brass soot off and dirt off, because this hugely interferes with the pins doing their job.
No it doesn't . I've been tossing in dirty range brass if my Frankford wet tumbler for years with Dawn dish soap and Lemmishine and the brass comes out looking absolutely brand new after about an hour of tumbling. Wet tumbling is already a lengthly multi-step process no need to add a second washing step.
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Old January 19, 2021, 09:32 PM   #33
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Agree with Road_Clam, put em in cruddy bring em out shiny.

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Old January 19, 2021, 10:28 PM   #34
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I agree with RC as well . Those cases above I cleaned went in as you see them . To include the rocks and dirt that may have been in some .
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Old January 20, 2021, 07:12 AM   #35
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Fyi for guys looking for drying options, ive done the "Summer sun" and works perfect in the summer, however in winter ive been laying my wet brass on a towel and placing the brass right under my oil furnace pump. The furnace emits heat and after a few days my brass is completely dry. I also have used a food dehydrator which is quick drying time , but is a lot of extra work stacking and removing the brass from the partitions.
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Old January 20, 2021, 01:22 PM   #36
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I use the Sun method all year, even in winter. Today, there is cold dry wind and bright sun at 50° F that will dry just fine. Of course, I live in California. But even so, indoor air during winter tends to have single digit humidity, unless you are adding moisture via a humidifier, etc. Indoors, a box fan blowing at brass on a towel will work without sun. Just shift the brass (pull up towel by alternating ends) once an hour. Someone posted that they use a mesh laundry bag bag with the wet brass, in the clothes dryer (with some old jeans, etc.).
Or, wait until your snow melts.
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Old January 20, 2021, 02:03 PM   #37
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The sun shines pretty well all year long in south Mississippi too. It may be chilly outside, but the cases will usually dry in a couple hours. On rainy days, I will place the cases head-up in loading trays (reused plastic trays from commercial ammo) and place them on the bench under a lamp overnight.

Also, I picked up a random 260 case when out scouting a hunting spot a couple years ago. It was caked with mud and black from being on the ground through a controlled-burn. Rinsed off the mud and dropped it in the tumbler with a batch of 223 cases. About 2 hours later, it was bright and shiny as if it was new.
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Old January 20, 2021, 03:41 PM   #38
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Here in the frozen North of NW Wisconsin, our Winter days have a shortage of sunny days lately.
So I rigged up a HD blower that levitates my 9mm brass in the column of dry air from my shop. Works great. Wash 750 pieces at once in 20# tumbler barrel, dry in colander with all 750 pieces tumbling in the air column. About 20 minutes with hand stirring brass occasionally and they are dry ready to use. I deprime before washing to get entire case clean.
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Old January 20, 2021, 04:00 PM   #39
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I'll keep drying them in the oven, until my wife makes me stop.

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Old January 20, 2021, 10:30 PM   #40
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Im in San Diego , what is this “winter” you all speak off ? Is it where Sasquatch and the Loch Ness monster dwell . I’ve never heard of such a thing ;-)
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Old January 21, 2021, 10:55 PM   #41
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Yeah, the highs here this week in Indiana, are in the 29f to 32f range......
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Old January 29, 2021, 09:15 PM   #42
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Here’s what I use to wet tumble.

I use one pod cascade dish washer detergent and about two table spoons lemme shine along with some green scotch brite scouring pads I cut up in 2x3” with about 2-3 gallons Hot water. The results are very nice. The brass is not super shiny but rather a Matt finish. Regardless it’s clean inside and out. I really don’t like using the SS pins because they are a pain to separate out. Typically have to wait until the casings are dry for separation Fass and SS to be successful. I built my own tumbler and use a 5 gallon sports water jug with a screw lid. Happy to send pics if anyone is interested in building their own.
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Old January 30, 2021, 07:09 AM   #43
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The only thing I do different is I use 100% Lemon juice instead of Lemishine in my large FART. 1oz of juice and a tp of Dawn. Run for 3 hrs w/ the pins, rinse twice, sun dry and load.

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Old January 30, 2021, 07:16 AM   #44
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Mjake15, do you have a dry media tumbler? if so, fill the tub with water and rotate the brass like normal. 99.9% of the pins will fall to the bottom. Drain the water and dump pins on a dry towel to air dry.

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Old February 1, 2021, 12:33 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by oley55 View Post
Who knew? I had no idea it was used for the purpose of capturing primer residues. I have been using Lemi-Shine because I thought it somehow aided the the cleaning action, but always worried that using too much would lead to premature tarnishing.

I have only been using about 1/2 teaspoon in my 3 gallon tumbler. Looks like I need to use a lot more, or is Lemi-Shine different than the citric acid mentioned here?
Lemi-shine is for cleaning and it does not convert the lead. Using too much, and a high temp will dezincify the brass, which is dangerous. To keep from tarnishing, it is the good rinse afterwards.

I don't do a lot of wet tumbling, but I don't use pins. Woolite black and a little lemi-shine cases nice and pretty in about an hour.
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Old February 1, 2021, 10:08 AM   #46
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I don't worry about sunlight. Humidity isn't high in Winter here. I just leave them out and wait. I forget about them for several days or a week, as I have other brass to load and shoot in the meantime. They always wind up dry in the end.

MarkCO,

Lemishine's main ingredient is a form of citric acid and citric acid is a chelating agent. Chelators, in effect, sequester heavy metals by binding them into a molecule that makes them water-soluble and that doesn't break apart easily, so it has much less reactivity than the metal does, thereby nullifying much of its toxicity. EDTA is much more efficient, but citric acid works well on lead in water-soluble compounds. Treatment with citric acid tends to passivate the surface of brass and make it less reactive with the environment by scavenging some of the surface zinc that can start white oxide blooms. It sounds bad but is commonly used in the brass casting industry to treat brass objects that are to be stored for long periods.
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Old February 2, 2021, 11:30 AM   #47
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I know that Unclenick, but that is not why it is used for cleaning brass by reloaders. Also, it does not work effectively when used for wet tumbling brass.

And...too much citric acid (in a concentration high enough to bind the lead) absolutely will dezincify brass making a very dangerous condition. The slight brown to pink coloration is a sign it has progressed too far.
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Old February 2, 2021, 05:22 PM   #48
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one hour for a touch up - 3 hours for a full cleaning - hot water, a tablespoon of lemi-shine - and a drop of dawn for dishes.
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Old February 3, 2021, 10:02 AM   #49
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I run all my brass for the full three hrs. I've not had any signs of rolled case mouths when using my FART.

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Old February 3, 2021, 06:03 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
Also, it does not work effectively when used for wet tumbling brass.
Here is the result of conducting the experiment yesterday. I made a solution of 0.75% citric acid, which is the working solution strength of Hornady's ultrasonic cleaning solution at its MSDS maximum percentages. Incidentally, a paper I found online at one point used 40 millimoles/kg (about 0.78%) citric acid to chelate lead battery waste to good effect, but I don't seem to have bookmarked it to put up a link. My point is that we are somewhere in the useful range for chelation, albeit not a high-speed point. But then, we're not talking about high concentrations or thick deposits; just powdered combustion products.



0.75% is far less than the Frankford Arsenal recommendation. From the American Rifleman Staff in the 1960s and reprinted in the NRA book, Handloading, in 1981, Page 77, it states:
"The Arsenal remarked that another method which cleans quite satisfactorily is to soak the cartridge case 5 to 10 minutes in a 5% citric acid solution (a higher percentage in hard water), then thoroughly rinds in water…
…A RIFLEMAN trial of this method gave very good results, and the cleaned case did not tarnish unduly. This method leaves the cases not conspicuously bright, but obviously clean and in good condition."
And that is how these look. They don't have the bright shine I would expect from including a detergent in the mix or a car cleaner with wax. For one thing, those lubricate the surface so pins sliding off are going to burnish it smoother than you get without that lubrication. On the other side, as I've mentioned before, I don't like the pH of the citric acid to be brought down by alkaline detergent products. But I have nothing against stopping the machine and adding it for the last hour, well after cupric oxide and verdigris and white zinc blooming have been removed if bright shine is your objective. From my perspective, though, what I got is clean enough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
And...too much citric acid (in a concentration high enough to bind the lead) absolutely will dezincify brass making a very dangerous condition. The slight brown to pink coloration is a sign it has progressed too far.
Are you talking about what you see on the right, here?



The first time I saw that, I made the mistake of assuming the pink was copper left by zinc being etched out of the brass. It's not. That brass is fine underneath it. The pink doesn't change color or tarnish over time as copper does because it isn't pure copper. It is cupric oxide, the red form of copper oxide, and it was already there as part of the case oxidation before the citric acid went to work. The citric acid solution just didn't attack cupric oxide effectively (and that 45 Auto case got the FA 5% treatment). But if you drop that same case into a vibratory tumbler, the red oxide is soon gone and gleaming brass is all that remains.

For fun, I've started another experiment with 30% citric acid (near-saturated solution) and a sacrificial case and I'm taking photos. I'll hold off on what I'm expecting to see and just let it play out and will share the result.
Attached Images
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