Shotgun for apartment

txray22 · January 4, 2022, 10:28 PM

I'm older than most here and live in an apartment now. I want to get a 20ga for home defense. I was thinking Mossberg, but the thread on the new ones makes me think no.

Stroger makes a 20ga double coach gun. I wonder about it sitting cocked for long periods. Will this weaken the springs? I remember Cooper wrote about liking the external hammer guns for that reason. Not many short 20ga guns out there.

Anyone have ideas?

Blindstitch · January 4, 2022, 11:10 PM

Get what you want. The debate will be more over capacity than springs.

**44 AMP** · January 4, 2022, 11:38 PM

I have a 12ga coach gun external hammers, chinese made. It works. And it lives just fine in the corner behind the bedroom door with the hammers down. Got it for two reasons, hammer & double triggers, doesn't get simpler than that and my wife needs simple....

Also it didn't cost much, so if it disappears into a police evidence room for an extended period of time, I'm not out much.

Simply put, if you've gotr a "rabbit ear" double, why would you leave it cocked? not only is this dangerous with no safety, if you have a safety and have it on, you have to take it off to shoot, and leaving the hammers down and cocking them when you pick up the gun takes no extra time....

One important thing to know, what are your apartment walls made of?? Shot can go through wood walls, but not concrete...

101combatvet · January 5, 2022, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txray22

I'm older than most here and live in an apartment now. I want to get a 20ga for home defense. I was thinking Mossberg, but the thread on the new ones makes me think no.

Stroger makes a 20ga double coach gun. I wonder about it sitting cocked for long periods. Will this weaken the springs? I remember Cooper wrote about liking the external hammer guns for that reason. Not many short 20ga guns out there.

Anyone have ideas?

They will likely work for your needs. I've been looking for a tactical shotgun for a while, and I'm not interested in Brazilian made [Stoeger] or Turkish made [Winchester] brands that are susceptible to problems. Currently I have my eyes on a Benelli.

Butzbach · January 5, 2022, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txray22

I'm older than most here and live in an apartment now. I want to get a 20ga for home defense. I was thinking Mossberg, but the thread on the new ones makes me think no.

Stroger makes a 20ga double coach gun. I wonder about it sitting cocked for long periods. Will this weaken the springs? I remember Cooper wrote about liking the external hammer guns for that reason. Not many short 20ga guns out there.

Anyone have ideas?

Compression does not weaken springs . Compression / release (decompression?) CYCLES weaken springs (eventually).

txray22 · January 5, 2022, 06:21 AM

The Stoeger coach gun is not a "rabbit ear". It's internal hammers (hammerless). Once loaded, it's cocked.

The walls are a concern and I was thinking of using #4 birdshot (high based) loads.

jmr40 · January 5, 2022, 01:09 PM

This

https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_...ss+121853+hdwd

The only reason to get a 20 ga is for a lighter gun meant to be carried all day in the mountains.

12 ga shells are a lot more readily available and cheaper. A standard field load in a 12 will have the same load as a heavy 20 ga load and do exactly the same thing. And it will actually have less recoil than a 20 because the 12ga shotgun is about a pound heavier.

A quality SXS will cost a LOT more than a pump, not much under 4 figures that are quality. You can still get a very good quality pump for around $400

Pahoo · January 5, 2022, 01:44 PM

Quote:

I was thinking Mossberg, but the thread on the new ones makes me think no.

For your service, a Mossberg is fine. There are more options, such as a Rem-870 or Winchester. One consideration is "weight" that is comfortable for you, to handle. ....

Wishing you well and;
Be Safe !!!

Siggy-06 · January 5, 2022, 04:04 PM

You can get a Mossberg Maverick 88, #32202. Has a 22 inch barrel that you can still use chokes in. Little cheaper than a 500 but will work great and go bang without breaking the bank. Use 2 3/4 #4 buckshot as a minimum for a self defense load. I like 1 buck and 00 buck personally, but the shotgun isnt the first choice for home defense for me as I value my hearing, not that a pistol caliber wont damage your ears either...

stinkeypete · January 5, 2022, 05:43 PM

You don’t need a 20 ga. And you don’t need buckshot.
At any range inside a modest home, any 1 oz no 4,5 or 6 hunting load will make fist sized holes in anything you hit. Buckshot does not matter at ranges less than 30 feet.

Your basic 20 ga load is 7/8 oz. Stout loads are 1 oz.
Light 12 ga loads are 1 oz. That ounce has the same recoil and same punch, but 12 ga is much easier to find and cheaper. A 12 ga. Inexpensive double barrel will go 7-8 pounds and soak up recoil. I used to have one, and shot 1 oz target. “Target”.. at 30 feet ain’t NO ONE willing to stand in front of it! It will make a fist sized hole.

If you want a double barrel coach gun, I would have hammers and store gun hammers down. That way, if the dog/cat, visitor or clumsiness has the shotgun fall, more than the safety prevent a discharge. Whoever fires must know to pull those hammers back- and if you think you can’t remember THAT, you need a lot of training!

I would have more confidence in a used gun I have inspected than a new one out of the box.

A used quality pump gun is another way to go. I would store it without a shell in the chamber. An extra step before firing, for safety. An older mossberg 500 is much better made than anything they make now.

I would not turn my nose up at a used Baikal or Stoeger or whatever found at a real gun shop. I would not care for a new Mossberg anything.

Pay no attention to anyone giving “tactical” advise. An ounce or two of any kind of shot is serious artillery at apartment ranges.

FITASC · January 5, 2022, 05:45 PM

Older 870 with an 18" barrel will do the job, as will an older Mossberg or Ithaca

HighDesert · January 5, 2022, 05:55 PM

I had a mossberg 500 with tactical stock for a while. While it looked cool, the tactical stock would get in the way of the safety. You had to really reach for it. The second problem I had was just me and my bad shoulders. A pump gun, at least the lighter 500 had far too much recoil. Given the two issues, I replaced the stock with a Hogue Jr. stock and added a pansy pad on top of that. Sweet stock and safety was now easily accessible. Took it to the range, then gave up and took it to the gun store for a trade for something less abusive.

While the pansy pad helped, it was still too abusive to take follow up shots without pain. I mention this because you stated you are older than most here and pump guns can be rough on us if there’s a need for follow up shots or even practicing at the range.

By comparison, I can go all day breaking clays with a semiauto or pricey O/U. They are far less abusive.

L. Boscoe · January 5, 2022, 06:29 PM

unless you are seriously handicapped, a good 45 with a full clip and one in the chamber will deter anything on two feet, and most on 4.
I am 85, and I shoot over 500 rds/month of 45, although they are loaded softer
than defense, but for two or three shots, anything can be managed.
I have told women who are afraid of guns that one of the most important things
about guns is that if you fire it thru the floor, roof or out the window, it will
give most intruders plenty of incentive to leave. After that, you are needed to make a decision.

**44 AMP** · January 5, 2022, 06:38 PM

Quote:

I have told women who are afraid of guns that one of the most important things
about guns is that if you fire it thru the floor, roof or out the window, it will
give most intruders plenty of incentive to leave. After that, you are needed to make a decision.

That's pretty much what Joe Biden said, and we didn't think it sound advice then, either...

stinkeypete · January 5, 2022, 06:41 PM

Please provide a source for that quote. I don’t believe your attribution to our President. I agree shooting at windows when fearing for one’s life is sound use.

FITASC · January 5, 2022, 06:47 PM

Joe talked about firing two shots in the air to end an invasion of your home.
(corrected the typo)

**44 AMP** · January 6, 2022, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Please provide a source for that quote. I don’t believe your attribution to our President.

Believe what you will, you can watch him say it from his own mouth many places on the Internet. There's even a Wikipedia entry about it, interviews he gave while Vice President in 2013. Just type Joe Biden, home defense, shotgun into any search engine and you'll get a ton of results, of him saying it, and him being parodied for saying it.

txray22 · January 6, 2022, 06:20 AM

I never said I would cock any gun with external hammers and store it. The "hammerless" coach gun is cocked when the loaded. Set safety! I know how to work a hammer gun, both revolver, lever, and an old single barrel I once owned. Don't know where the confusion came from.

Bill DeShivs · January 6, 2022, 02:09 PM

Leaving the gun cocked should not present any problems.

101combatvet · January 7, 2022, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinkeypete

Please provide a source for that quote. I don’t believe your attribution to our President. I agree shooting at windows when fearing for one’s life is sound use.

Very ignorant advice and I recall seeing Biden saying it.

Siggy-06 · January 7, 2022, 08:14 PM

https://youtu.be/F-mztxHgYQo

Enjoy

L-2 · January 7, 2022, 09:11 PM

In no particular order:

-You can't be trusting a shotgun, 20 or 12 gauge, to NOT penetrate a wall when somebody misses, or any other firearm for that matter. Do see the Box of Truth website for various tests:
https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box...e-box-o-truth/

-My personal opinion is Mossberg makes a good-to-great pump action shotgun. It's a USA corporation/company, if that matters to anybody:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O.F._Mossberg_%26_Sons

It used to be Remington or Mossberg for pump shotguns, but Remington is still barely getting back into business, under the new Remarms company. It'll remain to be seen how well this new company does with products and support.

-Coach-length, double barrel shotguns, exposed hammer vs. "hammerless":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUSPy1GMxYA

If a coach shotgun is desired for HD use, I'd consider the exposed hammer type, but see the linked video as to pros & cons and why. One of the better ones seems to be from CZ-USA, but it's relatively costly ($1K+ range):
https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-hammer-coach/

A shotgun and its ammo isn't some magic weapon which will only hurt a person-shot-at while any shot/pellet which misses magically just bounces off walls with zero penetration, even more-so in a close quarters environment of one room in an apartment. That shot/pellet will be moving very fast and isn't going to fall out of the air onto the floor when it's within an apartment.

51cskipper · January 7, 2022, 09:33 PM

Americanguncraft Desperado

20 ga
8" barrel
Black or Pyrodex
You choice of how many 00 buckshot to pour in

Muzzle loader using 209 primer so no paperwork

Pahoo · January 9, 2022, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Skipper;
Americanguncraft Desperado
20 ga
8" barrel
Black or Pyrodex
You choice of how many 00 buckshot to pour in
Muzzle loader using 209 primer so no paperwork

While I personally like this reply and do own one of these. I do not feel it's a good option, for the average person. Just too much support accessaries, work and knowledge to use. Just a lot easier to get a breech loader. ... ..

JMHO and;
Be Safe !!!!

101combatvet · January 9, 2022, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siggy-06

https://youtu.be/F-mztxHgYQo

Enjoy

I'm sure Biden is also a hunter like Clinton.

January 4, 2022, 10:28 PM	#1
txray22 Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2004 Location: Tyler, Texas Posts: 167	Shotgun for apartment I'm older than most here and live in an apartment now. I want to get a 20ga for home defense. I was thinking Mossberg, but the thread on the new ones makes me think no. Stroger makes a 20ga double coach gun. I wonder about it sitting cocked for long periods. Will this weaken the springs? I remember Cooper wrote about liking the external hammer guns for that reason. Not many short 20ga guns out there. Anyone have ideas? __________________ NRA Life Member, TSRA annual member

January 4, 2022, 11:10 PM	#2
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	Get what you want. The debate will be more over capacity than springs. __________________ NRA Lifetime Member

January 5, 2022, 06:21 AM	#6
txray22 Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2004 Location: Tyler, Texas Posts: 167	The Stoeger coach gun is not a "rabbit ear". It's internal hammers (hammerless). Once loaded, it's cocked. The walls are a concern and I was thinking of using #4 birdshot (high based) loads. __________________ NRA Life Member, TSRA annual member

January 5, 2022, 01:09 PM	#7
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,808	This https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_...ss+121853+hdwd The only reason to get a 20 ga is for a lighter gun meant to be carried all day in the mountains. 12 ga shells are a lot more readily available and cheaper. A standard field load in a 12 will have the same load as a heavy 20 ga load and do exactly the same thing. And it will actually have less recoil than a 20 because the 12ga shotgun is about a pound heavier. A quality SXS will cost a LOT more than a pump, not much under 4 figures that are quality. You can still get a very good quality pump for around $400 __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

January 5, 2022, 04:04 PM	#9
Siggy-06 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 1,148	You can get a Mossberg Maverick 88, #32202. Has a 22 inch barrel that you can still use chokes in. Little cheaper than a 500 but will work great and go bang without breaking the bank. Use 2 3/4 #4 buckshot as a minimum for a self defense load. I like 1 buck and 00 buck personally, but the shotgun isnt the first choice for home defense for me as I value my hearing, not that a pistol caliber wont damage your ears either... __________________ Flicks just like a lighter, just a different kind of fire.

January 4, 2022, 11:38 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,833	I have a 12ga coach gun external hammers, chinese made. It works. And it lives just fine in the corner behind the bedroom door with the hammers down. Got it for two reasons, hammer & double triggers, doesn't get simpler than that and my wife needs simple.... Also it didn't cost much, so if it disappears into a police evidence room for an extended period of time, I'm not out much. Simply put, if you've gotr a "rabbit ear" double, why would you leave it cocked? not only is this dangerous with no safety, if you have a safety and have it on, you have to take it off to shoot, and leaving the hammers down and cocking them when you pick up the gun takes no extra time.... One important thing to know, what are your apartment walls made of?? Shot can go through wood walls, but not concrete... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 5, 2022, 05:43 PM	#10
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,293	You don’t need a 20 ga. And you don’t need buckshot. At any range inside a modest home, any 1 oz no 4,5 or 6 hunting load will make fist sized holes in anything you hit. Buckshot does not matter at ranges less than 30 feet. Your basic 20 ga load is 7/8 oz. Stout loads are 1 oz. Light 12 ga loads are 1 oz. That ounce has the same recoil and same punch, but 12 ga is much easier to find and cheaper. A 12 ga. Inexpensive double barrel will go 7-8 pounds and soak up recoil. I used to have one, and shot 1 oz target. “Target”.. at 30 feet ain’t NO ONE willing to stand in front of it! It will make a fist sized hole. If you want a double barrel coach gun, I would have hammers and store gun hammers down. That way, if the dog/cat, visitor or clumsiness has the shotgun fall, more than the safety prevent a discharge. Whoever fires must know to pull those hammers back- and if you think you can’t remember THAT, you need a lot of training! I would have more confidence in a used gun I have inspected than a new one out of the box. A used quality pump gun is another way to go. I would store it without a shell in the chamber. An extra step before firing, for safety. An older mossberg 500 is much better made than anything they make now. I would not turn my nose up at a used Baikal or Stoeger or whatever found at a real gun shop. I would not care for a new Mossberg anything. Pay no attention to anyone giving “tactical” advise. An ounce or two of any kind of shot is serious artillery at apartment ranges. __________________ My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon. Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes. Last edited by stinkeypete; January 5, 2022 at 06:00 PM.

January 5, 2022, 05:45 PM	#11
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	Older 870 with an 18" barrel will do the job, as will an older Mossberg or Ithaca __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

January 5, 2022, 05:55 PM	#12
HighDesert Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2014 Posts: 128	I had a mossberg 500 with tactical stock for a while. While it looked cool, the tactical stock would get in the way of the safety. You had to really reach for it. The second problem I had was just me and my bad shoulders. A pump gun, at least the lighter 500 had far too much recoil. Given the two issues, I replaced the stock with a Hogue Jr. stock and added a pansy pad on top of that. Sweet stock and safety was now easily accessible. Took it to the range, then gave up and took it to the gun store for a trade for something less abusive. While the pansy pad helped, it was still too abusive to take follow up shots without pain. I mention this because you stated you are older than most here and pump guns can be rough on us if there’s a need for follow up shots or even practicing at the range. By comparison, I can go all day breaking clays with a semiauto or pricey O/U. They are far less abusive.

January 5, 2022, 06:29 PM	#13
L. Boscoe Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2021 Posts: 286	shotgun for apartment unless you are seriously handicapped, a good 45 with a full clip and one in the chamber will deter anything on two feet, and most on 4. I am 85, and I shoot over 500 rds/month of 45, although they are loaded softer than defense, but for two or three shots, anything can be managed. I have told women who are afraid of guns that one of the most important things about guns is that if you fire it thru the floor, roof or out the window, it will give most intruders plenty of incentive to leave. After that, you are needed to make a decision.

January 5, 2022, 06:41 PM	#15
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,293	Please provide a source for that quote. I don’t believe your attribution to our President. I agree shooting at windows when fearing for one’s life is sound use. __________________ My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon. Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.

January 5, 2022, 06:47 PM	#16
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	Joe talked about firing two shots in the air to end an invasion of your home. (corrected the typo) __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa Last edited by FITASC; January 5, 2022 at 07:31 PM.

January 6, 2022, 06:20 AM	#18
txray22 Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2004 Location: Tyler, Texas Posts: 167	I never said I would cock any gun with external hammers and store it. The "hammerless" coach gun is cocked when the loaded. Set safety! I know how to work a hammer gun, both revolver, lever, and an old single barrel I once owned. Don't know where the confusion came from. __________________ NRA Life Member, TSRA annual member

January 6, 2022, 02:09 PM	#19
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	Leaving the gun cocked should not present any problems. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

January 7, 2022, 08:14 PM	#21
Siggy-06 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 1,148	https://youtu.be/F-mztxHgYQo Enjoy __________________ Flicks just like a lighter, just a different kind of fire.

January 7, 2022, 09:11 PM	#22
L-2 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Nevada Posts: 523	In no particular order: -You can't be trusting a shotgun, 20 or 12 gauge, to NOT penetrate a wall when somebody misses, or any other firearm for that matter. Do see the Box of Truth website for various tests: https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box...e-box-o-truth/ -My personal opinion is Mossberg makes a good-to-great pump action shotgun. It's a USA corporation/company, if that matters to anybody: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O.F._Mossberg_%26_Sons It used to be Remington or Mossberg for pump shotguns, but Remington is still barely getting back into business, under the new Remarms company. It'll remain to be seen how well this new company does with products and support. -Coach-length, double barrel shotguns, exposed hammer vs. "hammerless": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUSPy1GMxYA If a coach shotgun is desired for HD use, I'd consider the exposed hammer type, but see the linked video as to pros & cons and why. One of the better ones seems to be from CZ-USA, but it's relatively costly ($1K+ range): https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-hammer-coach/ A shotgun and its ammo isn't some magic weapon which will only hurt a person-shot-at while any shot/pellet which misses magically just bounces off walls with zero penetration, even more-so in a close quarters environment of one room in an apartment. That shot/pellet will be moving very fast and isn't going to fall out of the air onto the floor when it's within an apartment. __________________ (former) Glock Armorer 1911 Armorer LEO (retired)

January 7, 2022, 09:33 PM	#23
51cskipper Member Join Date: March 7, 2019 Location: California Posts: 60	Americanguncraft Desperado 20 ga 8" barrel Black or Pyrodex You choice of how many 00 buckshot to pour in Muzzle loader using 209 primer so no paperwork __________________ The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. -- Thomas Jefferson