June 26, 2017, 11:29 AM | #1 |
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CCW an 1858 new army?
Yes the title is not a misprint!
I've carried the 1858 (45LC conversion btw) in the past but it has been off-body with all the compromises that involves. Realistically is there any setup where you can envision this working on-body? The closest I could imagine would be OWB on shorts worn under a skirt/dress or other bulky/poofy garment. FYI - I'm female and it would be in a warm weather climate though every building here has the AC at full bore. |
June 26, 2017, 12:00 PM | #2 |
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I hope it has a loading gate and that you have the shorter 5 1/2" barrel. At least it will be less bulky and reloading is faster.
There's a reason why swing out cylinders were invented. There's another reason why police officers were instructed to use their revolvers in the double-action mode only and why speed loaders were invented (they had them back in WW I when the British had the Webley revolver). It is much more difficult for women to CCW. Fashion dictates means women clothing tend to be tighter fitting. Hot weather with a coat screams suspicious to observers (and especially law enforcement). Let's see what Pax or other women have to suggest for you.
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June 26, 2017, 03:05 PM | #3 |
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Have not seen one with a loading gate, just the conversion cylinder setups.
Of course your post begs the question......why? I have an 1858, W/O a conversion cylinder. I would not dream of carrying it concealed. It's really the wrong tool for the job.
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June 26, 2017, 03:07 PM | #4 |
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Maybe a light vest cover
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June 26, 2017, 04:21 PM | #5 |
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Sadly no loading gate as I'm using the Taylors conversion cylinder on the 1858 so the entire cylinder comes out (for reloading) and it is the longer barreled version.
I have looked at a heavy duty hanks belt with steel core that should be able to hold up seeing as some have used it on super redhawks and 454 casuall revolvers. Rick - I don't disagree about it being far from ideal but finances simply aren't there yet for me to pick up that lovely cz pistol i've been eyeing so this is where i'm at. I probably could pick up a hipoint though... |
June 26, 2017, 04:40 PM | #6 |
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I understand
Hi AR,
That's about what I figured, a way too big and heavy CC piece does beat no CC piece, 100% of the time. Hi Point is kinda the great equalizer, can always pick one up for not much more than a hunert bucks, and they are reliable. Been thinkin on the older model LCP myself, since they brought out the 2.0 LCP have seen some great prices on the older ones. I think Ruger is still making both. Still more like 200 rather than 100. Always be realistic with yourself, will you really pack that big ol hunk O steel? I get the urge for something smaller, and my CC is a Glock 19. Or you can see it as the very quickest way to loose 10 Lbs. just take your gun off
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June 26, 2017, 06:49 PM | #7 |
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Rick - you had me figured out alright...i'm not glutton for punishment, hence this is strictly out of necessity.
I will say that open carrying that 1858 in a remote area sure changed the attitude of some questionable characters in the vicinity of where I had set up my camp. Confirmation bias maybe but an almost foot-long revolver makes people look. You make a good point about being realistic though I guess if I get used to carrying 'on-body' (since i've been carrying it off-body in a bag) then it should make a hi point c9 or JCP 40 feel downright petite In a perfect world I'd probably have a cz-75b or an sp-01 but then i'd have a lot of money for other things too. |
June 27, 2017, 01:36 PM | #8 |
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Cost issues start looking at used pistols can find some quality brands at the same cost as high point new. I usually don't conceal my 1911 when camping or horse back riding
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June 27, 2017, 02:25 PM | #9 | |
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I would be the first to defend the practice of carrying a SA revolver when many people say they are no longer suited to defensive use. If it is what you have, or if you do Cowboy Action Shooting, or if you simply have a lot of practice, I see no harm in carrying a SA revolver, and for some it is their best choice. However, the blackpowder revolvers are huge, I'm thinking more along the lines of a Sheriffs Model SAA reproduction or Vaquaro or a birds head with a short barrel.
I do understand tight budgets. As long as it is your only choice it is an option. For when your dress makes it tough/impossible, you may want to invest in a good knife and pepper spray for far less than a new gun would cost. Quote:
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June 27, 2017, 04:13 PM | #10 |
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Oh wow. I would never recommend that as a carry gun. Way too many things to list.
What's wrong with a nice 9mm semi-automatic? |
June 27, 2017, 06:03 PM | #11 |
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I definitely love the SAA and the look of it never grows old on me. As you guessed though it's just a matter of practicality in carrying a nearly foot long 5-shot revolver (i put the hammer down on an empty chamber) that weighs a kg or so.
I'd carry a cz-75 or an M&P in a heartbeat but these are on a whole other cost level. Which is where the SAA on body carry question comes about |
June 27, 2017, 08:22 PM | #12 |
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Some folks have taken to carrying C&B revolvers or conversions when they cannot buy or legally own modern guns* but that does not seem to be the case here, so I can only say that using gun size for intimidation is fine as long as it works. If it doesn't, and the BG is not intimidated, the carrier is stuck holding an awkward, obsolete, slow operating, slow loading revolver. Power may be adequate, and some folks scorn that in preference to having more rounds available. I will not question that .45 Colt (or equivalent rounds) has adequate power for self defense, but in a gunfight, I think that having, let's say, a 6-shot .357 with a speed-loader or a 16-shot 9mm might trump a 6-shot single action.
Jim *It is a common belief that percussion guns are "non-guns" and thus not subject to laws regarding the carrying of weapons. In most states, buying an antique gun or a modern clone is not subject to the same restrictions as a modern revolver or pistol, but carry laws almost never make exceptions based on gun type, so it is just as illegal to carry an 1851 Navy as to carry a Glock. JK |
June 28, 2017, 02:24 PM | #13 |
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Carry an 1860 Army and perhaps you can channel Wild Bill Hickock.
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June 29, 2017, 09:11 AM | #14 |
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ARQueen,
Have you considered a shoulder holster? My skinny brother used to carry a 44 mag with an 8+ inch barrel that way. I have carried my 6" 357 in a shoulder rig for 40 years. |
June 29, 2017, 11:46 AM | #15 |
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Wild Bill carried 1851 Navy Colts, not 1860 Armys.
Since 1972 I've carried a 7 1/2" SA revolver in a full flap cavalry holster, as I spent a lot of time horseback and astride motorcycles. Most of the time, it was a Colt New Frontier .22 (never felt under-gunned). Sometimes it was concealed, sometimes not, depended on what I wore. Most people never seem to notice, or don't believe it if they do, hehehe. In 2010 I switched to a Single Six in .32 H&R magnum, 6 1/2" barrel. Again, full flap holster. Two years ago I switched again to a Single Seven .327 Federal Magnum, 7 1/2" barrel again. But my life has changed. I don't hunt with a handgun (or much of anything anymore; the kids are grown and gone, it's just me, Dog, and a couple cats, and I'm more often in the truck or on a quad than a horse or cycle) these days, and that longer barrel seemed kind of superfluous. So, last month I got another Single Seven (love that .327, and a powerful .32 on a .22 frame is just the ideal walking around caliber, in my view) with the 4 5/8" barrel. Factory Federal 100 grain soft points register 1600+ fps. I just love it, carries easier, shoots great. Plus, its a seven shot six shooter, just like Handsome Stranger carried in "The Villian". Just when they think you are reloading and they break cover... |
June 29, 2017, 12:03 PM | #16 |
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Well, if the 1858 is the only thing within the budget, go for it and be sure to practice so as to become proficient with it. Hopefully it will never need to be drawn in defense and that its mere presence discourages ne-er do wells from improper actions.
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June 29, 2017, 01:12 PM | #17 |
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Cimarron and Taylor make a .45 Colt(comes in .38 Special and .44-40 too), 5.5", 1858 New Model Army conversion with a gate. Friggin' thing weighs 2.56 pounds and runs 11.3" long. A 1911A1 weighs 2.44 pounds and is 8.25" long.
It'd take a serious gun belt and holster to carry an 1858 under a skirt/dress or other bulky/poofy garment. Taylor says their .45 Colt conversion cylinders are for cowboy ammunition only. That's not really an issue though. Hornady's "Cowboy" ammo uses a 255 grain bullet at 725 FPS(out of a 4.75" barrel). That'll do, Pilgrim.
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June 29, 2017, 02:28 PM | #18 |
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Yes, Wild Bill did carry 1851 Navies. IIRC he fired them every night and reloaded them so he started every day with fresh loads.
Carrying a single action for CCW ? Requires a lot of practice drawing and cocking in one motion. |
June 29, 2017, 04:22 PM | #19 | |
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Quote:
"That's not a gun. THIS is a gun." |
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July 1, 2017, 10:59 PM | #20 | |
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Quote:
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July 9, 2017, 08:02 AM | #21 |
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Belated response but I have a few relevant updates.
Why only 5 shots? Because I don't think carrying most SA revolvers with 6 is safe since it appears there's no firing pin block and hence they could be bump fired accidentally. I don't recall any safety notches on this cylinder btw. Not that carrying 5 worries me as if you need more than 5 you probably aren't going to be surviving! And yes I mean an 1858 clone, specifically a pietta. Which is a great little gun at that and which I'm very accurate with especially shooting one handed. DaleA...you sir as quite correct! It may be ballistically equivalent to a 38 special with 5 shots but pointing an almost foot long cannon can quite rapidly change a man's outlook I've tried wearing shorts and attaching the gun owb (not with a real gun belt yet but just to get an idea before I spend money on a belt) worn under a large bulky garment like a flared skirt. The immediate problem is the revolver handle sticks way out..I'm thinking that's because of the unique shape of most SA revolver grips. So feeling like that was unworkable I cobbled enough together to buy a hipoint c9. I found one on sale, brand new for $130. It is a very bulky and heavy gun, not much lighter than the 1858 really however it's physically smaller and potentially concealable. The real problem is pistol can't go more than a few rounds without a FTF. The sights and point of aim being way way off, as in 6 inches or more, low at just 10 feet are another issue though maxing up and raising the rear sight helped a little. And for those asking I even shot it off a bench to ensure I want flinching or off not that the very vague trigger helps! Admittedly I've never had feeding issues with auto loaders though I've owned what I would say were infinitely better quality ones (cz-75, s&w). What I've heard is that usually the magazine lips or the feed ramps can be the culprits but I don't have experience fixing either. So I'm faced with this c9 which is wholly unreliable through a good 75 rounds and 3 different kinds of ammo or back to the 1858. Moral of the story is sometimes you get what you pay for! Last edited by ARqueen15; July 9, 2017 at 08:08 AM. |
July 9, 2017, 09:44 AM | #22 |
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You can probably send that High-point to the factory for a fix.
Their customer service is supposed to be very good. When they first came on the market, High-point pistols made an appearance at our local action pistol matches. They seemed to work just fine, so there's probably not all that much wrong with yours that couldn't be cured. Definitely worth a try. http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/cust...e/default.html Purty sure you can send it and receive it back directly without going through a ffl dealer.
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July 9, 2017, 12:53 PM | #23 | |
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I have never owned a Hi-Point, but people who own Hi-Points usually report them to be highly reliable. (People who complain about them often turn out to not own them, and sometimes not to have even shot or handled them.) Their commitment to warranty work is said to be commendable, as well, so the earlier recommendation to get it worked on is something worth pursuing. Good luck in all this, and keep us posted. |
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July 9, 2017, 07:50 PM | #24 |
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You might try the Hi-Point Forum for some ideas on what might be wrong with your pistol.
http://www.hipointfirearmsforums.com/forum/f273/ |
July 9, 2017, 11:11 PM | #25 |
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1851 Navy is what Hickok carried. As to using one for defense in 2017, If it was enough for Wild Bill, it will be enough for you.
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