Just a random thought this morning

[HALL,AUSTIN]

Had some downtime at work and was thinking, and I am amazed at the AR platform and it's versatility. Want to reach out to 600+ yards? There's an upper for that. Want to hop in and out of vehicles or clear tiny spaces? There's an upper for that. With all the options available presently what I'm really wondering is what is next? Is there room for improvement?

[DukeConnor]

Bigger bullet

[TXAZ]

^^^^
The BC of a .223 is close to zero compared to 1.05 for match .50 BMG. Competition starts at 600 yards, then 1000 yards, and intervals to 2 miles. (Which was won this week by a .50 BMG)

[burrhead]

So here's the 50 BMG upper for your AR.

http://www.ferret50.com/ferret50_conversion.html

Next question?

[Model12Win]

They ar fires a pud cartridge to be the King of Two Miles.

[Nathan]

I would love to build a 6mm tcu or similar with a heavy 20" barrel Krieger or similar, with headspace set to to small side.

20x - 36x scope....just for shooting tight groups!

[ndking1126]

I'm quite convinced the AR-10 will be the next big thing. Prices are dropping to reasonable levels - I saw a complete rifle for less than $600.

[TrueBlue711]

There are a lot of other rifles I prefer for particular purposes, but I agree that the AR is probably the most versatile rifle out there. I like being able to make my AR go back and forth from a 5.56 to a 300 Blackout in just seconds. Some other rifles promised quick barrel changes for different calibers and barrel lengths (case in point, the ACR), but never really delivered. At least not at a good price point.
The biggest thing the AR has going for it is it's been out for decades and has been "America's favorite gun" for many years. So it has a really strong foundation and almost every major rifle company and accessories companies have been catering to that rifle. It will take years of success for any other rifle to build up that kind of pedigree to be able to convince Americans that it can do something the AR can't. But it can happen. The AR itself had a pretty bad start. I doubt anybody back then could foresee it's current success.

[agtman]

Bigger bullet [that's not the .300BLK]

Fixed it for you.

Product improvement on the AR doesn't start with platform mods (e.g., from 20" rifle to 9" SBR), it starts with the chambering.

The .300BLK is a short-range AR .30-cal cartridge that's best run suppressed. I have one. It's lots of fun to shoot suppressed, and very impressive at the range, but the ammo is still pricey and the real-world ballistics keep you sub-200yds. It's a niche cartridge with limited applications.

But not all .30-cal cartridges are so nichey, nor do they all yield equal ballistics.

On the AR platform, the next step up from 5.56 - in a non-niche cartridge - is the .308/7.62 AR. I have one of those too. Heavier than its 5.56 sibling, but it has waaay more versatility of use than either the 5.56 or .300BLK.

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

The 300 Blackout is a lot more than a sub-sonic wonder for suppressing. The thing is great super sonic. It's a hammer on deer and hogs within reasonable ranges. It shoots cast well. It's cheap to shoot if you reload and especially if you cast (<$2/box of 20). It can throw a crazy range of bullet weights - 110 and all the up to 250 grains. It has almost no recoil. My kids have taken numerous deer with mine. But it is great for running a suppressor. However, I don't run suppressed and it's still one of my favorite cartridges. I wouldn't call it a "niche cartridge" anymore than I would a 308 or a 5.56.

[agtman]

* * * However, I don't run suppressed and it's still one of my favorite cartridges.

You're missing out, seriously.

That's the main benefit of the .300 BLK: a suppressible .30-cal cartridge that can be run off the size & weight of a 5.56 AR.

I wouldn't call it a "niche cartridge" anymore than I would a 308 or a 5.56.

Focus, dudenal. You wouldn't call the .308 or 5.56 "niche cartridges" because they aren't. Both are - and for decades have been - widely accepted general use cartridges, ... doing everything from hunting, competitive shooting and plinking, to war-fighting.

That cannot be said of the .300 BLK. It's still a nichey newcomer.

[ed308]

I think the next thing will be a cartridge sized between the 5.56 and up to the .308. I'm not sure the cartridge has even been developed at this point. The current 6.5, .264, 6.8, or 7mm would work. But cartridges between .276 and .284 give the best compromise for weight, recoil and lethality. And it will likely be a polymer based cartridge. Polymer is the key to a more power cartridge that is lighter in weight than a .308 brass cased cartridge. Lighter weight means more ammo in the field. That's the future.

[T. O'Heir]

"...Bigger bullet [that's not the .300BLK]..." That'd be an AR-10 built for the Finns for testing in the mid 50's. Chambered in 7.62 x 39. Always thought that was a really good idea. Armalite in Holland made 5 of 'em.
"...run suppressed..." Irrelevant.

[agtman]

* * * "...run suppressed..." Irrelevant.

Maybe in Canada, ... not here.

[hdwhit]

ed308 wrote:
I think the next thing will be a cartridge sized between the 5.56 and up to the .308. I'm not sure the cartridge has even been developed at this point. The current 6.5, .264, 6.8, or 7mm would work.

When I was a graduate student in the early 1980's, one of my professors had a contract with the military to do some computational work on the concept for a future service rifle cartridge. In the end we concluded that the optimal combination to meet the requirements given us was a 6.5mm bullet of about 100 grains fired at around 2800 fps. We looked at necking up the 223 Remington but couldn't get the numbers to work out; to do it properly was going to require a case with a larger head diameter and we realized that would pretty much exclude our work from future consideration.

And it will likely be a polymer based cartridge. Polymer is the key to a more power cartridge that is lighter in weight than a .308 brass cased cartridge. Lighter weight means more ammo in the field. That's the future.

I agree with you that the future is something other than brass and that "something" is likely to be a polymer.

I think that the technical problems with polymer cases that remain to be worked out, combined with the tremendous investment in existing cartridge types and the weapons to fire them means that widespread adoption of polymer cases is probably far enough in the future that I won't live to see it.

[Mobuck]

You can't make a compact car into a 1 ton pickup or a Ferrari w/o changing so many parts that it's no longer a compact car.

[the possum]

I've long thought the next big leap in firearms will be in aiming technology rather than the guns themselves. We've had machine guns for over a century, and gatlings that can spit out over 4000 rounds per minute. But how long would a war last if they could actually hit 4000 enemies every minute?

Plastic casings don't absorb heat and remove it from the gun the way brass does, so experiments with plastic casings have been plagued by overheating problems. Maybe aluminum could reduce some weight while also being more durable?

[44 AMP]

Maybe aluminum could reduce some weight while also being more durable?

For cartridge cases? not more durable than brass. Also, different coefficient of friction.

Been working ok for many years as revolver ammo, and short semi auto cases.

When the cases get longer, not so well.

Do note the wide variety of RIFLE rounds with aluminum cases...
go ahead, I'll wait...

Steel yes, Alumnium, no...

There's a reason for that...

[MarkCO]

Small frame ARs...I have them in .22RF up to .450Corvette. Large frame ARs, just in .308 but plan to get a .243 barrel next year. There have been some really good improvements in the large frame ARs in the past 5 years, still some left to do. PCC frames, they are hot and there is some work to do, but not a huge leap. In the small frame, not a whole lot left that has not already been T&E'd by someone.

Sighting, electronics integration and ammo improvements are what I think we will see most in the coming years. I have a $400 FLIR thermal imaging camera on my smart phone...the technology of which was $5K just a few years ago. For longer ranges (500 and out) wind-imaging will be the total game changer to come next. For most LR shooters, the 700+ is where it becomes difficult in the wind. A solver that uses measured wind, creates a map then solves based on actual wind measurements at intervals along the flight path will totally change the game. The technology does exist, but it is prohibitively expensive. Miniaturization and cost reduction will get it available to the consumer, and when it does, oh man!

[Deaf Smith]

If you want to reach out past 600 yards with an AR get a 24 inch match barrel and 75 grain bullets on a full sized AR-15 platform.

Deaf

[the possum]

For cartridge cases? not more durable than brass. Also, different coefficient of friction.

Been working ok for many years as revolver ammo, and short semi auto cases.

When the cases get longer, not so well.

Do note the wide variety of RIFLE rounds with aluminum cases...
go ahead, I'll wait...

If they can figure out to make aluminum work with the super hot 30mm cannon shells in the A-10 Warthog, I'm betting it can be done with other rounds. And I was comparing the durability to plastic.

Either way, that's still an incremental improvement rather than an earth shattering game changer. If we ever reach the point where every soldier can stick his gun up over a wall and let the automatic targeting system lock in and drop 20 moving targets at varying distances, that could make a real difference. If it could do it fast enough to keep up with the gun's cyclic rate, then, uh, ...wow.

[44 AMP]

If they can figure out to make aluminum work with the super hot 30mm cannon shells in the A-10 Warthog, I'm betting it can be done with other rounds. And I was comparing the durability to plastic.

My son is an Air Force SSG (will be a Tech sgt in a few months most likely, he made the list), and he works on A-10s. He gave me one of the fired cases, it's NOT aluminum. The gremlins have hidden it at the moment, but I'm certain its not aluminum. Steel with greenish tint I'm pretty sure, when it turns up again, I'll give it the magnet test.

And I'll certainly give you Aluminum over plastic for strength, but not, over brass.

[kraigwy]

And then there is the 50 Beowulf, in case your trapped in a phone booth by a raging grizzly.

Its like having a 50-70 Springfield in an AR platform.

[44 AMP]

And then there is the 50 Beowulf, in case your trapped in a phone booth by a raging grizzly.

The rifle is too big for inside a phone booth (do phone booths even exist anymore??) That's what your .50 Desert Eagle is for!!

Its like having a 50-70 Springfield in an AR platform.

A friend of mine has one (he also has a .50-70), I kid him a bit, asking if he got his commission check from Alexander Arms, yet. He's "sold" 4 of the rifles by letting other people shoot his. He's fired up around a thousand rounds now, with ZERO issues.

He gave me one of the rounds for my collection. You can fit an entire 40gr .22LR bullet and a little bit of the case into the hollow point of the .50 Beowulf.

OUCH!!

Not a 600m sniper, but then, everything doesn't have to be, now does it?