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Old December 3, 2022, 11:34 PM   #1
Ridgerunner665
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Home defense shotguns

With age, comes change...


I'm not that old, 49, and my vision is still correctable to 20/15 in both eyes... but front sights and red dots are... well... more complicated than they used to be.


Realizing that my AR with the CompM4 optic wasn't as quick and accurate as it used to be....I got a Mossberg 590 SPX with the ghost ring rear and fiber optic front... it patterns great with plain old Winchester #1 buckshot hunting loads (silver box) .


It is purely a fighting shotgun, though I pray a fight never comes where I need it... I've done TONS of research (watched a lot of YouTube from trusted sources) on the role of shotguns in home defense.


Many of y'all know I grew up on a small time tobacco farm in northeast Tennessee... an old 16 gauge Victor Special was the home defense, and everything else, shotgun then.... I still have Grandads old 16,  first gun I ever fired.


I'll confess, I'm 3 servings into some good cognac, but it seems to me shotguns have been doing a fine job of home defense for a century or so... but there seems to be some who think they're not up to the task (YouTube).


I don't get it...


Properly set up and properly loaded, for use inside a home.... what beats a short stocked, short barreled 12 gauge?



P.S. Don't worry... I'm not gonna become the annoying drunk posting random BS, that's not who I am... but I chose to throw it in there in case my post seemed a little... rambly.



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Last edited by Ridgerunner665; December 4, 2022 at 12:24 AM.
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Old December 4, 2022, 02:32 PM   #2
Bill DeShivs
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Not a thing wrong with shotguns for HD.
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Old December 4, 2022, 06:30 PM   #3
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The primary argument is that a 16" barreled AR is going to be shorter and more maneuverable, less recoil, faster follow up etc.... If you make a living fighting inside a house then yeah an AR makes sense, if it's for when something goes bump in the night a shotgun is plenty good enough and will get the job done.
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Old December 4, 2022, 11:04 PM   #4
bamaranger
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shotguns

A dose of buckshot or a slug on target pretty much settles all accounts. As long as the operator is capable, I see nothing wrong with the shotgun. Several secure bamahouse.

I have met folks who simply cannot manage a shotgun, most especially an all up 12ga pump. For such folks, some type of carbine is likely a better choice.
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Old December 5, 2022, 11:55 AM   #5
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I picked up an 18" barreled Winchester SXP. 3" slugs at 1700 fps. It weighs 6.2 pounds. I am going to do a head to head against my FNH P12 (same basic design) this spring. I have high hopes for it.

But, I will say that of long guns, 12g Pumps are what students in my CCW classes like the least. 9mm PCCs are what they like the best. Hit rate and speed follow the same. Only if one is fully invested in the training with a shotgun would I suggest one, even then...not sure most will actually train enough to maintain the proficiency needed.
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Old December 5, 2022, 02:58 PM   #6
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An AR fired inside the home will be a LOT louder than the lower pressure shotgun - both will cause some hurt and potential damage, but how awake are you at 3AM dealing with moving shadowy figures?
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Old December 5, 2022, 03:37 PM   #7
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An AR fired inside the home will be a LOT louder than the lower pressure shotgun
That is real talk, an unsuppressed AR inside is something you feel inside your soul not just your ears.
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Old December 5, 2022, 03:55 PM   #8
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9mm PCCs are what they like the best
And why I added the Ruger using 32 round Glock mags in the corner to go with the Mossberg...
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Old December 5, 2022, 04:34 PM   #9
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12 ga

I had occasion to conduct training with US BOP (Bureau of Prisons) personnel on 2 detail assignment many years back. Everybody (corrections officer, clear, cook.....everybody) was required to qualify with revolver, (that dates it) carbine (first evolution was the M-1!) and the 870 pump. We had female shooters in tears and leaving the firing line when attempting to qualify with the shotgun. Recoil was just too much for them with all up ammo. It was not unusual for the same individuals to have shot the handgun and the carbine very well.

Second time assigned, the BOP had switched to the M4 and the .30 carbines were gone, there were still problems getting females to qual with the shotgun. At my level, I could not advise on what happened to those personnel in the hiring process.
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Old December 5, 2022, 05:25 PM   #10
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Well...

Start w/ one of the new Remington 12 ga. 870 FieldMasters. (~ $500)

Then, swap in a Mossberg 870 18.5" CYL Bbl. (~ $120)

... and you end up w/ somethin' like this:



Then, get ya a few boxes of Federal FLITECONTROL Buckshot.

I got #1, but the #00 works fine, too.





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Old December 5, 2022, 05:55 PM   #11
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Start w/ one of the new Remington 12 ga. 870 FieldMasters. (~ $500)

Then, swap in a Mossberg 870 18.5" CYL Bbl. (~ $120)
You want a guy to spend $620 when he can get a better pump in the Winchester SXP for $300? Okay then.
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Old December 5, 2022, 06:18 PM   #12
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Or, just cut the Remington barrel.
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Old December 6, 2022, 11:37 AM   #13
Red Devil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO View Post
You want a guy to spend $620 when he can get a better pump in the Winchester SXP for $300? Okay then.
Why yes... yes, I do.

Then, he would have Both a fine HD shotgun... AND a fine Field shotgun.

The new RemArms 870 FieldMasters look outstanding.

A Bargain.




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Old December 6, 2022, 10:37 PM   #14
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Great post and glad you’re enjoying your cognac! In my humble opinion, the shotgun is the most versatile of any firearm. Hard to beat something that can shoot a rifled slug with very reasonable accuracy along with hunting loads for food on the table and of course home defense loads.

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Old December 7, 2022, 03:18 AM   #15
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ARs are more maneuverable, offer better options for slings, lights, etc, and most importantly, there are many more training opportunities available for the AR platform than there are for shotguns.

Shotguns still work but they aren't my first choice.
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Old December 7, 2022, 09:34 AM   #16
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I fired my 16 inch AR once without earplugs outside. It hurt. I can't imagine firing it inside without them. My 20 inch 12 gauge isn't even close to as loud.
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Old December 7, 2022, 05:57 PM   #17
Red Devil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
I fired my 16 inch AR once without earplugs outside. It hurt. I can't imagine firing it inside without them. My 20 inch 12 gauge isn't even close to as loud.
You would think that there would be an OSHA suppressor mandate.

8>)




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Old December 7, 2022, 11:36 PM   #18
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I keep two shotguns by my bed: a Mossberg Shockwave (outfitted with a side saddle and #4 Buck minishells) and a Mossberg 500 (18" barrel, side saddle, Tactaload stock...and outfitted with both minishells and standard slugs in the Tactaload).



If something goes bump in the night, I will trust my life to either.
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Old December 8, 2022, 09:06 AM   #19
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Keep some earplugs next to that HD shotgun.
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Old December 8, 2022, 01:53 PM   #20
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ARs are more maneuverable,.....

Wrong...
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Old December 8, 2022, 07:04 PM   #21
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Found some shells to try...Remington Express XLR, 1.25 ounces of #2 lead shot (108 pellets), at an advertised 1,330 fps... it is a 2.75 inch shell, not even a magnum 2.75", but close (3.75 dram eq.)

Gonna rig up a test with some old hunting clothes....see if this stuff will do its thing through heavy clothes.

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Old December 9, 2022, 02:27 AM   #22
Bill DeShivs
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No AR is this maneuverable....
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Old December 9, 2022, 01:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
ARs are more maneuverable,.....

Wrong...
Well this is going to turn into an OAL measuring contest real quick.
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Old December 9, 2022, 02:11 PM   #24
Ridgerunner665
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Measured some shot charges...

The #2 birdshot rounds are labeled as 1 1/4 ounce loads... actual weight is 1 5/16 oz...105 pellets... there is some variation in the pellet size, most are .155", some are .143" (that is closer to #3 shot).

The #1 buckshot rounds, Winchester Super X, have 16 pellets in them... that also weighs 1 5/16 oz... those pellets measure .285".



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Old December 10, 2022, 06:34 PM   #25
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it seems to me shotguns have been doing a fine job of home defense for a century or so...
Much of the shotgun's appeal was simply the intimidation factor. Especially prior to around WW-2. A shotgun could easily be effective by someone with little experience and even a couple of bird shot pellets could kill someone.

Not outright mind you. But with the medical care years ago what would be a minor wound today could easily get infected and lead to a long, slow, painful death days, or even weeks later.

No one wanted to die that way and the presence of a shotgun, even in the hands of an inexperienced shooter would diffuse a lot of disagreements.

Quote:
We had female shooters in tears and leaving the firing line when attempting to qualify with the shotgun. Recoil was just too much for them
Typical 12 and even 20 ga buckshot loads are comparable to 300 WM recoil. Almost no one would recommend 300 WM for a novice hunter, but shotguns are often recommended for inexperienced shooters. Just something to think about.

A shotgun is definitely part of my HD toolbox. But INSIDE my home I still much prefer a handgun. There is no place in my home where a shot over 10-15' is possible. It doesn't take an accurate handgun to do that and I want to have one hand free.

Any long gun is more cumbersome than I want INSIDE, and a shotgun pattern is so tight at those ranges that a carbine would be just as effective. With less recoil. I wouldn't reach for it 1st, but indoors I'd just as soon reach for an AR carbine as a shotgun.

But if the action is OUTDOORS a shotgun with buckshot is the best tool for the job. The range is limited, but I could be effective from my home to my property line in any direction.
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