Black Powder in War

[DennisCA]

I have question for all of you black powder experts:

Since muzzle-loading rifles (I'm talking about single-shot flintlocks or percussions) need to be cleaned every so often; like every so 5 shots or so.
So what did they do during battle?
Obviously you're not going to stop shooting (while they are shooting at you!) and clean the bore of your gun!

[Kappe]

Affix bayonets.

[Wyosmith]

That is why the balls and bullets were slightly undersized to drop into the bore easily. In the days of the American Civil war the hollow based bullet was used to a large extent. The bullets would obdurate to fill the bore and grab the riflings. In the days of the smooth bore musket the ball was undersized and would often just drop in. The paper was used as wadding to hold it in place so it would not roll out.

[Hawg]

Plenty of stories about soldiers in the CW ramming the ram rod against a tree to seat a minie. Usually tho that was because they were using .58 minies in .577 Enfields.

[MJN77]

In the Civil War, the standard size minie ball for a .58/.577 was .575. In a few written cases I have read, some used .54 minies in their .58 rifles.

[Jo6pak]

Even up through the Napoleonic era, battles were often decided not by musket fire, but by the bayonet. And artillery
Armies seldom fired more than 3-4 rounds before fixing steel and advancing on the enemy to push them from the field. Many historians believe that casualties caused by actual gunfire was still fairly low (<20%) at this point in warfare.
Even then, it was rare for major bayonet melee to ensue. More often than not, it was the better formed and disciplined troops simply breaking the enemies will to fight, at which point they would break and retreat.

The close ranks were not so much to amass fire, but to create an impenetrable wall of pikes to defend against calvary and, almost literally, push other infantry from the field.

[swathdiver]

I forget the names and exact details, but for every 40 rounds or so of ammo carried, 1 or 2 was a cleaning round.

[Hawg]

In the Civil War, the standard size minie ball for a .58/.577 was .575. In a few written cases I have read, some used .54 minies in their .58 rifles

The U.S. .58 minie was .577. There was no standard size for both. Soldiers using the .577 Enfield often used loads intended for the .58 Springfield but after a few rounds they got very hard to load.

[MJN77]

The U.S. .58 minie was .577. There was no standard size for both. Soldiers using the .577 Enfield often used loads intended for the .58 Springfield but after a few rounds they got very hard to load.

.58 and .577 were the standard U.S. and British rifle calibers. The standard diameter of minie ball as manufactured by the two governments during the American Civil War was .575 so the ammo could still be loaded during a prolonged battle. The hollow base of the minie would expand to grip the rifling.

Also as was stated, every few rounds was a "cleaning" round.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_cleaner_bullet

[maillemaker]

Since muzzle-loading rifles (I'm talking about single-shot flintlocks or percussions) need to be cleaned every so often; like every so 5 shots or so.

I have shot period-style Minie balls (RCBS 500M mold) using period lube per the 1862 Ordnance Manual. It is 8 parts beeswax to 1 part tallow.

When so doing, I could pretty much shoot indefinitely when using Goex FFg powder. This was using bullets sized to within .002 of my bore, using a replica P1853 with a Whitacre barrel. I think I shot some 30 consecutive shots without difficulty.

Also as was stated, every few rounds was a "cleaning" round.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William..._bullet/quote]

From my reading of Dean Thomas' Round Ball to Rimfire, I believe the William's Cleaner Bullet was not terribly effective, and the ordnance department seems to have come to thought so also and discontinued using them.

The William's Cleaner bullet had a concave zinc disk staked to the bottom of the lead bullet, and the idea was that the disk would be forced into the rifling and scrape the fouling. Going from memory of the Ordnance Department accounts, later Ordnance Department testing indicated that there was no appreciable decline in fouling nor was the bullet as accurate as originally claimed. Eventually they stopped packaging them with bullets and I think I remember a passage about a large quantity of them being broken up to salvage the powder and lead rather than use them.

Steve

[g.willikers]

Until the invention of repeating firearms, the blade was still an important weapon.
As were blunt trauma weapons.
Wonder what the ratio of casualties were using the front end of the rifle vs the rear.

[Jim Watson]

I read an excerpt from a memoir of the American Civil War, approximately
"Sergeant Brown reports one of his men killing a Rebel with the bayonet. This is the first instance heard of on this campaign."

[johnwilliamson062]

I'll go ahead and say that the bow and arrow was a superior weapon in 1860. If you spent most of your life training with one that is.

[rodwhaincamo]

The Comanche didn't seem to think so when the Texas Rangers armed themselves with 2 Patterson's each.

[MJN77]

The Comanche didn't seem to think so when the Texas Rangers armed themselves with 2 Patterson's each.

Battle of Walker's Creek. First time the Texas Rangers used revolvers in battle.

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/o...articles/btw02

[4V50 Gary]

I don't recall which book, but there were incidents of soldiers urinating down their barrels to remove the fouling.

[Slamfire]

I have read a lot of accounts from the period, and if the battle lasted long enough that your rifle jammed through fouling, there were a lot of dead guys around with whom you could trade rifles.

I recall Co. Aytch: A Confederate Memoir of the Civil War, and Sam Watkins was in the trenches at the Bloody Angle atop Kennesaw Mountain. It is my recollection that Sam said he fired 120 rounds that day. That was an exceptional amount for Sam. Many someone can remember how he did that.

[4V50 Gary]

Could Private Watkins have picked up another soldier's rifle to replace his if his had jammed? That is possible.

[James K]

The standard cartridge box held 20 rounds; that was expected to be enough for a battle, and it usually was. When soldiers were expecting a battle and had access to an ammunition wagon, they would fill both the cartridge box and their pockets with as many rounds as they could carry, but usually the issue would be decided before the first 20 rounds was used up.

One factor often overlooked by modern folks is the sheer effort it took to load and fire a Civil War rifle. While we read of, and sometimes even try, firing 3 or 4 shots a minute, I at least could never keep up that rate, and think I would have been a basket case by the time the cartridge box was empty.

IMHO, a soldier who could fire 120 shots from a rifle musket at anything like a rapid rate would have had to have been an athlete equal to any pro football player today.

(The sheer physical effort required to operate a rifle was noted in the field testing carried out prior to the adoption of the M1 rifle. A team firing that rifle and another team using the M1903 each fired 300 rounds, simulating repulsing an attack in force. At the end of the drill, the team using bolt action rifles was so exhausted, some had to be hospitalized. That was one factor that weighed heavily in the decision to adopt a semi-auto rifle.)

Jim

[maillemaker]

The standard cartridge box held 20 rounds; that was expected to be enough for a battle, and it usually was. When soldiers were expecting a battle and had access to an ammunition wagon, they would fill both the cartridge box and their pockets with as many rounds as they could carry, but usually the issue would be decided before the first 20 rounds was used up.

One factor often overlooked by modern folks is the sheer effort it took to load and fire a Civil War rifle. While we read of, and sometimes even try, firing 3 or 4 shots a minute, I at least could never keep up that rate, and think I would have been a basket case by the time the cartridge box was empty.

IMHO, a soldier who could fire 120 shots from a rifle musket at anything like a rapid rate would have had to have been an athlete equal to any pro football player today.

(The sheer physical effort required to operate a rifle was noted in the field testing carried out prior to the adoption of the M1 rifle. A team firing that rifle and another team using the M1903 each fired 300 rounds, simulating repulsing an attack in force. At the end of the drill, the team using bolt action rifles was so exhausted, some had to be hospitalized. That was one factor that weighed heavily in the decision to adopt a semi-auto rifle.)

Jim

The Pattern 1857 and 1861 cartridge boxes contained tins that had 4 compartments. Each compartment could hold an arsenal pack of 10 cartridges. So the cartridge box would hold 40 rounds of ammunition.

While certainly loading and shooting a muzzle loader can be tiring, and no doubt it is even more exhausting when under fire, it is certainly a doable task and not something that will put you in the hospital. I shoot N-SSA competition and we shoot all day long for most of the weekend. A typical match, such as carbine or musket, involves 4-5 courses of fire, and I usually expend 12 or so rounds on each course of fire, expending 50-60 rounds total. Each course of fire is generally 5 minutes long, and there is generally a 5-10 minute break in between each course of fire spent quickly cleaning bores and hanging targets for the next course of fire. And of course speed is of the essence as your team time matters.

Honestly the thing that hurts me the most at the end of the day is my feet from standing all day.

Steve

[GaryED50]

I thought this was the whole point of the miniball round. Undersize for easy loading in a fouled barrel the hollow base expands to engage the rifling when fired

Gary

[swathdiver]

Thanks for the askin' the question DennisCA and thanks fellas for the information filled replies! Great stuff!

[DennisCA]

Totally agree with swathdiver - this was great!

It was freakin' awsome!!!!!!!

[4V50 Gary]

Correct that the standard cartridge box held 40 rounds. There was one general who was conducting and inspection and the soldiers were ordered to open their cartridge box. Unbeknownst to the sergeant, the men had removed his cartridges and replaced it with a deck of cards. The general saw that and closed the flap and held his hand there. He then asked the sergeant how many he had. The sergeant promptly responded, "Forty, sir." The general replied, "There should be fifty-two" and went onto the next soldier. The sergeant was puzzled and it was not recorded how he responded when they were dismissed.

Regarding the minie, it was somewhat self cleaning, being undersized with an expanding skirt that could clear out some fouling. But at times minie guns also fouled. It's the nature of blackpowder.

[LeadZinger]

Interesting enough the surviving medical reports from both the Union and Confederate Medical Departments indicate that very few deaths or wounds occurred from the use of the bayonet or swords. After the war I believe there was an official study on this particular matter and the conclusion was that edged weapons just were not effective in modern warfare of the time. Death from blount trauma was much more common. This all seems to point to the conclusion that in a melee soldiers much preferred to use their muskets and pistol butts as clubs, along with the ever present rock.

At 2nd Bull Run some of A P Hills units threw rocks when ammunition ran out, as did units belonging to George Thomas at Chickamauga. After Antietam and Shiloh, with only a few exceptions, units quit standing in alignment delivering volley fire at an opponent standing yards away doing the same. Soldiers of the time were not stupid and soon learned that the best battle line was one on which they created some cover and built up an overwhelming mass of independent fire power with which to discourage an attacking or defending enemy.

Because of this change in tactics I believe that the 2nd most important thing on the battle line after amumnition was water. This was probably used liberally to clean out fouled rifles with urinating down the bore a distant option. Soldiers were probably to dehydrated themselves to do this very often after a period of time on the line. Ammunition and water parties are frequently mentioned in unit histories of recorded battles. Veteran units would take it upon themselves to conduct a retrograd movement when; they ran out of ammunition; they ran out of water; they felt the opposing force had the greater firepower, and definetely when all three occurred at once.

First person diaries, letters, unit histories, after action reports found in the Official Records are all great sources from which to build a picture of just what life was like during the Civil War.