Non-Standard Firing Positions

DT Guy · September 13, 2009, 07:02 PM

Partly prompted by the recent situation in downtown Chicago, I'm beginning to wonder who is practicing 'non-standard' firing positions? I'm thinking about things like shooting 'behind' (around the side?) yourself, shooting straight down at an aggressor surrounded by innocents, shooting upward (chin shots?) at someone with innocents behind and below them.

This would be hard to practice on most firing ranges, and downright DANGEROUS for any but an expertly supervised student, but I would think these things have their place. A parallel is found in knife training, where you train to defend and assault 'around the clock' (the spatial, rather than temporal, clock) and both up from the ground and down to it.

Anybody already doing this?

Larry

**JohnKSa** · September 13, 2009, 07:49 PM

You are correct to point out the practical difficulties and I also agree that kind of practice is important.

Mostly because a lot of people are carrying very light autopistols with significant recoil. Shooting from odd positions can turn up "limp-wristing" problems.

I read an article not too long ago about the work a gunwriter and a gunsmith performed trying to get a compact polymer-framed .40S&W pistol to function reliably. They both finally agreed that the gun would only function properly when held with an extremely firm grip--to the point that the gunwriter was only able to shoot it reliably for a few shots before his hand began to fatigue and he started getting grip-related malfunctions.

I believe that there are a lot of folks carrying little-bitty, very light pistols in fairly heavy calibers that work well at the range but that are very likely to jam if they have to shoot them from any position that doesn't allow them to get a good firm grip on the pistols.

DT Guy · September 13, 2009, 08:19 PM

John,

There's something I didn't even think of-in addition to all the other problems with it.

But I can't help but feel that a BG presenting a full frontal to your 12 is NOT going to happen every time....

Larry

BCeagle · September 13, 2009, 10:45 PM

Sig academy has a training class on this, try and find a local class.

fastforty · September 13, 2009, 11:11 PM

The range that I took most of my training at had a safe zone extending at least 10 miles, so we got to practice dropping to one knee to take a close up head shot, as you would need to do in a crowded situation to avoid endangering innocent bystanders. We did the same with rifles from the prone position without having to worry about where the lead wound up coming back to earth. In the advanced tactics classes, we did a LOT of shooting from "non standard" positions. Even so, I'm pretty sure that if I ever have to shoot in self defense it probably won't be from any position that I've practiced. Might luck out & have a perp just standing there on two skinny stick legs waiting for me to get in perfect position though

Dannyl · September 13, 2009, 11:52 PM

HI,
I recommend that you find a club that shoots IDPA and join them.

Aside of being fun, it is the best practice you will get for a huge variety of scenarios.

Brgds,

Danny

Jkinkade · September 14, 2009, 06:20 PM

Agree on shooting IDPA.....been at it for 5 years now.....some of the stages are really good training!!! You are mainly shooting simulated actuall attacks most of the time. And you will meet some really nice people.

**Frank Ettin** · September 15, 2009, 12:03 AM

You can definitely get some good practice shooting from non-standard postures by taking up IPSC or IDPA. You don't learn self defense or tactics, but you do learn and practice a lot of useful, basic skills, including shooting fast and accurately, shooting from unconventional postures, moving with a loaded weapon, reloading, target acquisition and engaging multiple targets at various distances, and general gun handling skills; and you learn to be safe and to perform under the stress of competition.

LeopardCurDog · September 15, 2009, 09:11 AM

I'm fortunate in that I have a range in my backyard. I can shoot how I want when I want. I practice a variety of positions, contortions, movement, etc. A lot of it is eye opening the first time it is tried.

kraigwy · September 15, 2009, 09:32 AM

Laser sights help a lot in shooting wierd positions.

smince · September 26, 2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

This would be hard to practice on most firing ranges,

Gas blow-back Airsoft works for well for this type training.

Xanatos · September 26, 2009, 04:51 PM

+1 for smince

I practice my shooting on the move, SHTF firing positions, one hand disabled, etc. with a gas blowback airsoft gun with gas not meant for airsoft competitions (these will usually yield velocities of over 500 FPS and the recoil is around a .38 spl or a 9mm.

For long guns and the AR-15 in particular, MagPul's video teaches the urban prone position which is supposed to allow you to shoot under vehicles and such.

September 13, 2009, 07:02 PM	#1
DT Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2001 Posts: 959	Non-Standard Firing Positions Partly prompted by the recent situation in downtown Chicago, I'm beginning to wonder who is practicing 'non-standard' firing positions? I'm thinking about things like shooting 'behind' (around the side?) yourself, shooting straight down at an aggressor surrounded by innocents, shooting upward (chin shots?) at someone with innocents behind and below them. This would be hard to practice on most firing ranges, and downright DANGEROUS for any but an expertly supervised student, but I would think these things have their place. A parallel is found in knife training, where you train to defend and assault 'around the clock' (the spatial, rather than temporal, clock) and both up from the ground and down to it. Anybody already doing this? Larry __________________ He who fights and runs away had better run pretty damn fast. Government, Anarchy and Chaos

September 13, 2009, 07:49 PM	#2
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	You are correct to point out the practical difficulties and I also agree that kind of practice is important. Mostly because a lot of people are carrying very light autopistols with significant recoil. Shooting from odd positions can turn up "limp-wristing" problems. I read an article not too long ago about the work a gunwriter and a gunsmith performed trying to get a compact polymer-framed .40S&W pistol to function reliably. They both finally agreed that the gun would only function properly when held with an extremely firm grip--to the point that the gunwriter was only able to shoot it reliably for a few shots before his hand began to fatigue and he started getting grip-related malfunctions. I believe that there are a lot of folks carrying little-bitty, very light pistols in fairly heavy calibers that work well at the range but that are very likely to jam if they have to shoot them from any position that doesn't allow them to get a good firm grip on the pistols. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

September 13, 2009, 08:19 PM	#3
DT Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2001 Posts: 959	John, There's something I didn't even think of-in addition to all the other problems with it. But I can't help but feel that a BG presenting a full frontal to your 12 is NOT going to happen every time.... Larry __________________ He who fights and runs away had better run pretty damn fast. Government, Anarchy and Chaos

September 13, 2009, 11:11 PM	#5
fastforty Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1999 Location: In a kornfield in kalifornia Posts: 1,161	The range that I took most of my training at had a safe zone extending at least 10 miles, so we got to practice dropping to one knee to take a close up head shot, as you would need to do in a crowded situation to avoid endangering innocent bystanders. We did the same with rifles from the prone position without having to worry about where the lead wound up coming back to earth. In the advanced tactics classes, we did a LOT of shooting from "non standard" positions. Even so, I'm pretty sure that if I ever have to shoot in self defense it probably won't be from any position that I've practiced. Might luck out & have a perp just standing there on two skinny stick legs waiting for me to get in perfect position though __________________ When Banjos are outlawed, only Outlaws will have Banjos The Bible is my lawbook. I turn the other cheek when applicable, and spend the rest of my days resisting evil at every front, until I have breathed my last breath.

September 13, 2009, 11:52 PM	#6
Dannyl Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Cape Town - South Africa Posts: 627	Join a club that shoots IDPA HI, I recommend that you find a club that shoots IDPA and join them. Aside of being fun, it is the best practice you will get for a huge variety of scenarios. Brgds, Danny

September 13, 2009, 10:45 PM	#4
BCeagle Member Join Date: February 24, 2009 Posts: 55	Sig academy has a training class on this, try and find a local class.

September 14, 2009, 06:20 PM	#7
Jkinkade Member Join Date: September 29, 2005 Location: Monticello Ky Posts: 29	Agree on shooting IDPA.....been at it for 5 years now.....some of the stages are really good training!!! You are mainly shooting simulated actuall attacks most of the time. And you will meet some really nice people.

September 15, 2009, 12:03 AM	#8
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	You can definitely get some good practice shooting from non-standard postures by taking up IPSC or IDPA. You don't learn self defense or tactics, but you do learn and practice a lot of useful, basic skills, including shooting fast and accurately, shooting from unconventional postures, moving with a loaded weapon, reloading, target acquisition and engaging multiple targets at various distances, and general gun handling skills; and you learn to be safe and to perform under the stress of competition.

September 15, 2009, 09:11 AM	#9
LeopardCurDog Member Join Date: February 1, 2009 Posts: 81	I'm fortunate in that I have a range in my backyard. I can shoot how I want when I want. I practice a variety of positions, contortions, movement, etc. A lot of it is eye opening the first time it is tried.

September 15, 2009, 09:32 AM	#10
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Laser sights help a lot in shooting wierd positions. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

September 26, 2009, 04:51 PM	#12
Xanatos Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2009 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 132	+1 for smince I practice my shooting on the move, SHTF firing positions, one hand disabled, etc. with a gas blowback airsoft gun with gas not meant for airsoft competitions (these will usually yield velocities of over 500 FPS and the recoil is around a .38 spl or a 9mm. For long guns and the AR-15 in particular, MagPul's video teaches the urban prone position which is supposed to allow you to shoot under vehicles and such.

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