M-1 GARAND PROBLEM !

TDB4 · July 30, 1999, 06:19 PM

I HAVE A SPRINGFIELD M1 GARAND THAT BENDS THE CASE RIMS EVERY TIME IT EJECTS AN EMPTY CASE. AND SINCE THE RIMS ARE BENT I CAN'T RELOAD THE CASE'S. ANY SUGGESTIONS?
THANKS.

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HankL · July 30, 1999, 09:21 PM

If you are using MILSPEC ammo it could be due to several things. Bad extractor, rough chamber, bad timing due to any number of things. If you are using reloads then the sky is the limit.
I would consider letting one of the pros look at this because of all of the variables involved. Why wreck a great rifle and yourself!
IMHO Hank, Good Shooting

Joefo · July 31, 1999, 07:32 AM

If you are using reloads it is critical to use a powder with the correct burning rate. The reason for this is that if the pressure is too great when the projectile passes the gas port it causes violent cycling of the action. This could result in bending or breaking the operating rod. Or maybe worse. This is a $70+ part. It probably could be causing your problem if you're using reloads. It may be cycling the bolt too fast and the bolt handle is bending the cases. I shoot a lot of reloads in my Garands and haven't had a problem yet. I use Varget, IMR 4895, IMR 3031 powders and 150gr bullets. Find out from a smith or other pro what is causing your problem before you wreck a nice gun. It may be a simple cure.

**4V50 Gary** · July 31, 1999, 08:25 AM

I concur with Joef regarding ammunition for the M1 Garand. The M1 was design to operate with the Mil-Spec M2 cartridge. Putting civilian ammunition of the same caliber may generate pressures too high for the M1 to operate without risk of damage. Conversely, ammunition with low pressure may result in reliability problems.

Also suggest reposting this thread to the gunsmithing forum here at the Firing Line.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

James K · July 31, 1999, 01:51 PM

Hi, TDB4,

I agree with those advising that reloads that are not close to mil spec can cause problems in an M1.

Even with GI ammo, though, some M1s will eject the case in such a way that the neck is dented.

Sometimes it is only a matter of replacing the ejector and/or extractor springs.

Sometimes, the cause is the ejector itself. You may need to replace the ejector or change the angle of ejection by stoning its face. The latter is nearly impossible to describe and is somewhat trial and error, so you best have an spare ejector anyway if you try to work on it.

The extractor can also affect the ejection angle, and it may need replaced.

It takes quite a dent in a case neck to prevent cases from being reloaded, though. Usually, the expander plug is small enough to enter the neck and if it is not, the plug can be ground slightly to make a sharper point (do not grind on the expander ball, only on the guide part). Still, it is better to fix the denting problem than to deal with it in reloading.

Jim

TDB4 · July 31, 1999, 04:15 PM

THANK'S FOR THE ADVISE YOU GUY'S, BUT I THINK SOME OF YOU MAY HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD THE PROBLEM. WHEN THE CASE'S EJECT THE RIM BENDS NOT THE NECK. I'VE TRIED SURPLUS MILATARY AMMO, COMERCIAL AMMO AND HAND LOADED TO MILSPEC AMMO, THE RIM BENDS ON ALL. I'VE STRIPPED THE RIFLE DOWN CLEANED, INSPECTED AND REASEMBLED IT, THE GAS ROD IS NOT BENT OR BROKEN. BUT STILL THE PROBLEM PERSIST.
THANK Y'ALL FOR THE HELP THOUGH!

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HankL · July 31, 1999, 08:13 PM

Yes guys TDB4 is talking about rims not necks. I would go to the chamber right away assuming the rounds weren't greasy or otherwise too slick!
IMHO Hank

Joefo · August 1, 1999, 11:11 AM

I knew he was talking about the case head(primer end) from his original post. I think if it is having the problem with a variety of correct ammo, you should see a good Garand familiar smith.

TDB4 · August 1, 1999, 08:28 PM

OK THANKS GUY'S!

James K · August 1, 1999, 09:22 PM

OOOPPPS! Apology to all.

I have posted the following notice on my screen:

Warning! Engage eyes and brain before operating fingers!

Jim

TDB4 · August 3, 1999, 04:47 PM

No brain no pain.

Patrick Graham · August 7, 1999, 07:02 PM

Let me take a guess at it..
If the gas system starts pushing the bolt while the case is still held tightly in the chamber you can bend the rim. If this is the case eventually the extractor will fail.
Could be a dirty chamber. Could be a pitted chamber. Could be a poorly finished chamber.
Does the chamber look shiney?
Could it be an oversized gas port???

July 30, 1999, 06:19 PM	#1
TDB4 Member Join Date: July 22, 1999 Location: Upstate, South Carolina. Posts: 45	I HAVE A SPRINGFIELD M1 GARAND THAT BENDS THE CASE RIMS EVERY TIME IT EJECTS AN EMPTY CASE. AND SINCE THE RIMS ARE BENT I CAN'T RELOAD THE CASE'S. ANY SUGGESTIONS? THANKS. ------------------

July 30, 1999, 09:21 PM	#2
HankL Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: The Sunny South Posts: 2,174	If you are using MILSPEC ammo it could be due to several things. Bad extractor, rough chamber, bad timing due to any number of things. If you are using reloads then the sky is the limit. I would consider letting one of the pros look at this because of all of the variables involved. Why wreck a great rifle and yourself! IMHO Hank, Good Shooting

July 31, 1999, 07:32 AM	#3
Joefo Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 1999 Location: NY Posts: 165	If you are using reloads it is critical to use a powder with the correct burning rate. The reason for this is that if the pressure is too great when the projectile passes the gas port it causes violent cycling of the action. This could result in bending or breaking the operating rod. Or maybe worse. This is a $70+ part. It probably could be causing your problem if you're using reloads. It may be cycling the bolt too fast and the bolt handle is bending the cases. I shoot a lot of reloads in my Garands and haven't had a problem yet. I use Varget, IMR 4895, IMR 3031 powders and 150gr bullets. Find out from a smith or other pro what is causing your problem before you wreck a nice gun. It may be a simple cure.

July 31, 1999, 08:25 AM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	I concur with Joef regarding ammunition for the M1 Garand. The M1 was design to operate with the Mil-Spec M2 cartridge. Putting civilian ammunition of the same caliber may generate pressures too high for the M1 to operate without risk of damage. Conversely, ammunition with low pressure may result in reliability problems. Also suggest reposting this thread to the gunsmithing forum here at the Firing Line. ------------------ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

July 31, 1999, 01:51 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, TDB4, I agree with those advising that reloads that are not close to mil spec can cause problems in an M1. Even with GI ammo, though, some M1s will eject the case in such a way that the neck is dented. Sometimes it is only a matter of replacing the ejector and/or extractor springs. Sometimes, the cause is the ejector itself. You may need to replace the ejector or change the angle of ejection by stoning its face. The latter is nearly impossible to describe and is somewhat trial and error, so you best have an spare ejector anyway if you try to work on it. The extractor can also affect the ejection angle, and it may need replaced. It takes quite a dent in a case neck to prevent cases from being reloaded, though. Usually, the expander plug is small enough to enter the neck and if it is not, the plug can be ground slightly to make a sharper point (do not grind on the expander ball, only on the guide part). Still, it is better to fix the denting problem than to deal with it in reloading. Jim

July 31, 1999, 04:15 PM	#6
TDB4 Member Join Date: July 22, 1999 Location: Upstate, South Carolina. Posts: 45	THANK'S FOR THE ADVISE YOU GUY'S, BUT I THINK SOME OF YOU MAY HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD THE PROBLEM. WHEN THE CASE'S EJECT THE RIM BENDS NOT THE NECK. I'VE TRIED SURPLUS MILATARY AMMO, COMERCIAL AMMO AND HAND LOADED TO MILSPEC AMMO, THE RIM BENDS ON ALL. I'VE STRIPPED THE RIFLE DOWN CLEANED, INSPECTED AND REASEMBLED IT, THE GAS ROD IS NOT BENT OR BROKEN. BUT STILL THE PROBLEM PERSIST. THANK Y'ALL FOR THE HELP THOUGH! ------------------

July 31, 1999, 08:13 PM	#7
HankL Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: The Sunny South Posts: 2,174	Yes guys TDB4 is talking about rims not necks. I would go to the chamber right away assuming the rounds weren't greasy or otherwise too slick! IMHO Hank

August 1, 1999, 11:11 AM	#8
Joefo Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 1999 Location: NY Posts: 165	I knew he was talking about the case head(primer end) from his original post. I think if it is having the problem with a variety of correct ammo, you should see a good Garand familiar smith.

August 1, 1999, 08:28 PM	#9
TDB4 Member Join Date: July 22, 1999 Location: Upstate, South Carolina. Posts: 45	OK THANKS GUY'S!

August 1, 1999, 09:22 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	OOOPPPS! Apology to all. I have posted the following notice on my screen: Warning! Engage eyes and brain before operating fingers! Jim

August 3, 1999, 04:47 PM	#11
TDB4 Member Join Date: July 22, 1999 Location: Upstate, South Carolina. Posts: 45	No brain no pain.

August 7, 1999, 07:02 PM	#12
Patrick Graham Junior member Join Date: January 18, 1999 Location: Kokomo, Indiana USA Posts: 674	Let me take a guess at it.. If the gas system starts pushing the bolt while the case is still held tightly in the chamber you can bend the rim. If this is the case eventually the extractor will fail. Could be a dirty chamber. Could be a pitted chamber. Could be a poorly finished chamber. Does the chamber look shiney? Could it be an oversized gas port???