DAO for CCW - Page 2

chemcal · November 4, 2018, 03:13 PM

are the Kahr recoil springs short lived?

Carl the Floor Walker · November 5, 2018, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

cc-hangfire said:

I agree with that and the same market trend doomed the P290rs and produced the P365. Like the 250, the 290 deserved a better fate, IMO.

Yes, the 290 was and is a very nice Pistol. I would prefer it over the 938. I was one to get caught up in the Light striker fired craze. However about a year ago, I said no more. I have two firearms that had worn into tobeing just to lite. More like target guns than suitable for EDC.
They started my journey to find the right Double action that would be perfect for my individual needs. During 6 months I shot just about every thing I could get my hands on. I belong to a club, so friends with many members that would let me shoot their gun. Actually during this time, also shot the New Sig 365. We put a thousand rounds from through that pistol

My final choice came on day, when I was able to shoot the Beretta Nano. It was instant love for the gun. The recoil was one of the most mild, I shot, the muzzle rise was ridiculous low. And I loved the trigger. Smooth and deliberate all the way through. Only wish my revolvers had one this nice.
I bought one, and quickly put 5,000 rounds through the gun. It shot every thing I could find with no problems. Small pistol with OAL of only 5.63", great balance, and easy to carry with the streamline design. Take down is a breeze, Modular grip etc. Built like a tank. Clearly this gun was made ahead of it's time. It fit my hand perfectly. I had found my personal EDC.

The point, is not that the Nano is for everyone. Just like the Kahr maybe not for everyone. Just that there are many nice double action firearms out there. You really need to slow down and find the right gun for you. Don't be in a hurry.

On another note. Last weekend at the range, I was headed out and heard a familiar voice yell my name. It was a old friend I had known for a long time. A retired military armorer, range officer, and a devoted Glock Fan. Heard him talk about them so many times over the years.
I asked him "Where the heck have you been. Have not seen you in so long". He replied that he had SHOT himself. At first I thought he was joking. But he told me that he was headed out to the range one day, opened the door to his car and his Glock 19 fell out. Some how it caught on something and the gun fired. The Hollow point bullet went down his hip, and nicked the hip bone and traveled down further and the doctor said it just missed his femoral artery by two inches.
I told him that I have made the switch to Double Action firearms and getting rid of all my light Striker fired guns. I was kinda of amazed when he said "I am going to double action as well, Already made that decision"
Just something to think about. If it happened to him, it could happen to anyone. No one is perfect.

USNRet93 · November 5, 2018, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker

Quote:

opened the door to his car and his Glock 19 fell out. Some how it caught on something and the gun fired. The Hollow point bullet went down his hip, and nicked the hip bone and traveled down further and the doctor said it just missed his femoral artery by two inches.
I told him that I have made the switch to Double Action firearms and getting rid of all my light Striker fired guns. I was kinda of amazed when he said "I am going to double action as well, Already made that decision"

Kinda new to all this but is the issue a 'light striker'? From some Nano description(I admit, I've never even seen one), it is very similar to the Glocks, striker, DAO, trigger safety..So, the 'switch' to DAO...isn't that what a glock is? Is the issue a 'light striker'(glock) vs a 'heavier striker'(Nano)?

Excuse my ignorance, but one article I read some guy saw and shot a NANO and said, 'gee, a baby glock'...

Quote:

The point, is not that the Nano is for everyone. Just like the Kahr maybe not for everyone. Just that there are many nice double action firearms out there. You really need to slow down and find the right gun for you. Don't be in a hurry.

But you are right(again, pretty new to all this)..googling something like Baretta Nano vs Glock 43 and get a TON of opinions, both directions.

dyl · November 7, 2018, 10:44 PM

A Glock could be made to have an extremely heavy pull, light pull, anything in between by switching out the trigger springs, connector, striker spring. Or if I remember correctly you can REALLY make it hard to shoot well by putting in a NY-1 trigger. I think it was some orange plastic doo-dad that inserts into the trigger group.

I have a Kahr. I tried shooting a P250 once. A young man in the lane next to me and his friend kept sounding like they were displeased with something. I don't remember if they asked me to see what was going on, or if I asked if everything was alright. It was my first time shooting a P250 also, and it had a *long* trigger pull. It seemed longer than the Kahr just because the Kahr is smaller overall. But it shot well. I think it was his first pistol and he didn't know what he was in for with DAO. I didn't have time to give a thorough explanation of trigger control, surprise break, grip, etc... and he said he was going to sell it for a different pistol.

It's funny, striker fired actions were at first described as DAO. But now I think it's getting more popular to designate them in their own category of action as striker fired, rather than trying to relate them to more well-known action types people were more familiar with at the time.

USNRet93 · November 8, 2018, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyl

A Glock could be made to have an extremely heavy pull, light pull, anything in between by switching out the trigger springs, connector, striker spring. Or if I remember correctly you can REALLY make it hard to shoot well by putting in a NY-1 trigger. I think it was some orange plastic doo-dad that inserts into the trigger group.

It's funny, striker fired actions were at first described as DAO. But now I think it's getting more popular to designate them in their own category of action as striker fired, rather than trying to relate them to more well-known action types people were more familiar with at the time.

Agree, since nothing on a striker fired gun is really 'cocked'..the action of the trigger aft loads the spring, and moves the firing pin aft until it releases..if I understand it correctly..again, kinda new to all this.

dyl · November 8, 2018, 11:09 AM

USNRet93

- yes some striker fired semi autos technically claim to be double action to appeal to people's sense of safety. But I believe for striker fired semi autos, tensioning the striker spring isn't completely left to the trigger pull. All striker fired are partially tensioned / partially cocked even before the trigger pull. Some like the Springfield XD are NOT considered "DAO" at all, and are simply single action striker fired. That is why the XD was not allowed in IDPA competitions until this year.

Even the Glock has *some* tension in the "cocked" state. If you to take the slide off and look at the position of the striker and then on the frame, look at the part of the trigger bar that would interact with it, there's at least a 1/4 inch distance between the two parts. When the slide goes back into battery, the striker catches on that trigger bar / sear surface then the spring compresses as the slide goes the rest of the way into battery. The striker is under spring tension. Maybe not enough to discharge a round at that distance, but it's already under some tension. The wings, or cruciform (arms that look like horizontal pieces of a cross) part of the Glock trigger bar are riding on plastic to prevent the trigger bar from ever slipping downward so we'll likely never know if the pre-tensioned state is enough to pop a primer without a trigger pull. https://giphy.com/gifs/choice-seal-weapon-avpItht1m7Pig Glocks also don't have "re-strike" capability unlike a true DAO revolver. So it makes sense to start calling it something other than DAO especially when there are still DAO hammer fired semi-autos around.

I suspect Kahrs are also under *some* tension too in the cocked state.

gc70 · November 9, 2018, 12:27 AM

Striker-fired mechanisms run the gamut from full double action with restrike ability to true single action. In fact, the Walther P99 embodies both the DA and SA trigger actions in a single striker-fired design.

November 4, 2018, 03:13 PM	#26
chemcal Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2014 Posts: 281	are the Kahr recoil springs short lived?

November 7, 2018, 10:44 PM	#29
dyl Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,310	A Glock could be made to have an extremely heavy pull, light pull, anything in between by switching out the trigger springs, connector, striker spring. Or if I remember correctly you can REALLY make it hard to shoot well by putting in a NY-1 trigger. I think it was some orange plastic doo-dad that inserts into the trigger group. I have a Kahr. I tried shooting a P250 once. A young man in the lane next to me and his friend kept sounding like they were displeased with something. I don't remember if they asked me to see what was going on, or if I asked if everything was alright. It was my first time shooting a P250 also, and it had a long trigger pull. It seemed longer than the Kahr just because the Kahr is smaller overall. But it shot well. I think it was his first pistol and he didn't know what he was in for with DAO. I didn't have time to give a thorough explanation of trigger control, surprise break, grip, etc... and he said he was going to sell it for a different pistol. It's funny, striker fired actions were at first described as DAO. But now I think it's getting more popular to designate them in their own category of action as striker fired, rather than trying to relate them to more well-known action types people were more familiar with at the time.

November 8, 2018, 11:09 AM	#31
dyl Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,310	USNRet93 - yes some striker fired semi autos technically claim to be double action to appeal to people's sense of safety. But I believe for striker fired semi autos, tensioning the striker spring isn't completely left to the trigger pull. All striker fired are partially tensioned / partially cocked even before the trigger pull. Some like the Springfield XD are NOT considered "DAO" at all, and are simply single action striker fired. That is why the XD was not allowed in IDPA competitions until this year. Even the Glock has some tension in the "cocked" state. If you to take the slide off and look at the position of the striker and then on the frame, look at the part of the trigger bar that would interact with it, there's at least a 1/4 inch distance between the two parts. When the slide goes back into battery, the striker catches on that trigger bar / sear surface then the spring compresses as the slide goes the rest of the way into battery. The striker is under spring tension. Maybe not enough to discharge a round at that distance, but it's already under some tension. The wings, or cruciform (arms that look like horizontal pieces of a cross) part of the Glock trigger bar are riding on plastic to prevent the trigger bar from ever slipping downward so we'll likely never know if the pre-tensioned state is enough to pop a primer without a trigger pull. https://giphy.com/gifs/choice-seal-weapon-avpItht1m7Pig Glocks also don't have "re-strike" capability unlike a true DAO revolver. So it makes sense to start calling it something other than DAO especially when there are still DAO hammer fired semi-autos around. I suspect Kahrs are also under some tension too in the cocked state.

November 9, 2018, 12:27 AM	#32
gc70 Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,903	Striker-fired mechanisms run the gamut from full double action with restrike ability to true single action. In fact, the Walther P99 embodies both the DA and SA trigger actions in a single striker-fired design.