Building and IPSC Open Minor Glock, suggestions

Para Bellum · June 30, 2007, 03:12 AM

Hi there,

I am thinking about building an Glock for IPSC Open Division Minor. I have two initial questions to answer and still struggling with them:

- Glock 17 or Glock 34?
- Docter Sight directly on the slide or C-More with special mount on the frame?

If you are interested, have any ideas and can tell me why, I'd be greatful.

Have a nice weekend,
PB

yar · June 30, 2007, 04:06 AM

I shoot a open minor glock set up for steel matches. You got a couple of routes.

In terms of optics you can get the cmore or the jpoint/doctor. The jpoint is what I use. The doctor is the same except it's got a glass lens. If you do the doctor or jpoint you should have the slide milled so it sits low in the slide or what we call "melted". This way the dot is exactly where you expect the front sight to be. You don't have to change your index/muscle memory and can go back and forth between limited and open. If you get the sight melted you have to get it done in such a way where you can take the sight on and off and keep your zero (stays sighted in). To do this they either mill in some pegs that lock up to the bottom of the sight or mill the cut with the back edge rounded so the sight puzzle fits in. This is a tricky job so expect to pay about $200 to get the slide cut alone. You can also use the dovetail mount for the doctor or jpoint but I don't like them. The sight sits too high and you have to relearn how to point the gun. You will be happier if you get the sight melted.

The other route is to go with the cmore. The cmore is a very good dot and will stand up to major ammo. It will sit really high off the gun so again you have to relearn how to point it. SJC makes the only cmore mount worth a damn. It sits lowest on the gune and is stable. Again you have to get the slide milled in the form of having the ehection port lowered. This way it changes the glock from a top ejecting gun to side ejecting gun. Otherwise the case would eject and hit the bottom of the cmore and bounce back into the chamber causing a stove pipe jam.

Next you have to choose a comp. you either want a real comp at the end of the barrel or just have the barrel ported. I think the comp really smooths out the recoil and keeps the gun flat. I like the minor comp from SJC. Inexpensive at $75 or so. You will need a long threaded barrel. The SJC has KKM threads so get the KKM barrel. you want to get the fitted barrel not the semi drop in. Get the barrel fitted tight or it will really beat up your gun. I seen a open glock that chewed up the mag catch area of the magazines. A mag would not even survive a match. Short story whichever way you go fitted barrel. The comp will be permently attached to the barrel. It will be glued in like with jb weld. This is nessasary so the comp lines up ture and they can use a smallest possible opening for the bullet to pass through. This makes the comp more efficient. If you had a strait up threaded comp held with set screws such the KKM comp (junk btw) the opening is much larger thus the comp is less effiecent. because you can't take the barrel out the gun anymore it is more difficult to clean. You can tilt the barrel away and run a rod throught it. Then chean out the slide with cotton swabs. Lastly if you go the comp route get the glock 17. Because of the way the comp attaches you get an extra 1" lenght to the gun. Thus if you went with the 34 the gun would be real long. You don't want that.

The alternative is just to have the barrel ported. if you go this route you might go with the 34. The porting does do something if it is ported right. Real small ports is what you want like 3 to 4 of them. If the ports are too big they don't seem to do anything. I'm not really framilar with this option as I went with the comp myself. On the well done instances the gun was reasonably flat but there was a lot more felt recoil. Your going to need to run hotter ammo to power the ports properly. The 34 already has the slide cut away. unfortunately i have not shoot a good ported 34. The one i thought was well executed was done on a 17. I really liked how small and quick handling the gun was.

Ok that is enought for now. I just typed a damn novel. I can answer specific questions now.

Para Bellum · July 1, 2007, 03:09 AM

Thank you very much yar. Now I have to check for the parts and make up my mind....

yar · July 1, 2007, 03:49 AM

Oh and people ask if you see the dot move more than a cmore because it cycles with the slide. The answer is no. The dot does it's little hop strait up and down as long as you do your part with the grip.

Open guns are much more grip sensitive than a limited gun. If you grip the gun too hard or two soft the dot will do funny things. Such as make a clover leaf pattern during recoil. If you gip the gun with the correct pressure the dot will do a little hop strait up and down.

Don't worry the dot will tell you what your doing. Sometimes when I'm ripping at full speed I make slight adjustement in grip as dictated by what the dot is doing.

WESHOOT2 · July 1, 2007, 10:23 AM

If shooting Minor PF forget the comp; just buy a 34.
Seriously.

www.egw-guns.com for sight advice.

(friend currently testing the new stainless frame, but his runs in 40 Major w/Hybriport-dribble tube; forget if he's using the JP or Doc....but he's using one of them)

yar · July 1, 2007, 07:39 PM

Ok lets look at the arena of open minor speed shooting which is Steel Challenge. Everyone runs a comp, seriously. It might not be the advanatage it is in major but it is still a sizable advantage.

1911ONR · July 2, 2007, 06:55 AM

Yar says:

Quote:

Ok lets look at the arena of open minor speed shooting which is Steel Challenge. Everyone runs a comp, seriously. It might not be the advanatage it is in major but it is still a sizable advantage.

Oh yeah! NRA AP (Bianchi Cup) open shooters all have comps. Most shoot 38 Super. The minimum power factor is only 120K compared to 125K for USPSA minor and 165K for USPSA major.

pinshooter · July 3, 2007, 01:11 AM

My friend has a open gun. It is a CZ 75 in 9MM. Compensator and cmore sight. Converted to single action only. If you are building an open gun why use one with a trigger pull like a Glock. Check out the CZ 75. They are reasonably priced and very reliable. Mags are not overly expensive.

yar · July 3, 2007, 04:08 AM

Prior to building my open glock I wanted to build a open CZ. I could not get anyone to make the comp for me. I went to progressive machine, EGW, all the big names and offered $500 just to one off a comp and then blend it to the slide. Nobody would do it. I even went and asked angus to pull some string and get me a comp from the factory. I tried to buy a complete cz champion (their factory open gun) and they did not have any in stock and could not get any. Angus tried to order 50 of them and they still were no go.

Long story short, CZ open gun don't hold your breath. Your friend probably has a EAA tangfolio open gun. It's a CZ clone but not a CZ.

I shoot a ton of steel matches like 4-5 a month. I see all types of open minor guns. If you didn't go with a 1911 platform the Glock makes the most sense.

Bob Hostetter · July 3, 2007, 01:37 PM

There are several guns that can be successfully used for shooting minor loads that aren't 1911/2011 based. Probably the most common is the Glock, which works very well but suffers from the the Glock trigger. You either like them or you don't.

The CZ/EAA is also an excellent gun to use. The advantage is a better trigger but the disadvantage is a limited number of aftermarket companies making parts. We are looking at making a line of parts for them but they are still in the planning stages.

The XD is also an excellent choice. We build a lot of parts for them and the trigger can be set up very nicely. We currently are putting together a Open one in 9mm complete with a 3 chamber comp and JPoint red dot.

If you are going to use a Glock the G17 is the best model to work with but at this point I would recommend the XD over the Glock or the CZ/EAA.......

Para Bellum · July 3, 2007, 02:09 PM

Once again, thanks, guys!

Quote:

If you are building an open gun why use one with a trigger pull like a Glock.

Because I carry Glocks 24/7 and want to play with the trigger that I carry

pinshooter · July 4, 2007, 12:28 AM

Yar

My friends open gun is definitely a CZ 75. The pistolsmith installed a two port comp of his own making. Also the cmore mount was made by the same pistolsmith. I have never seen this firearm malfunction using factory ammo. Trigger was converted to single action. I would estimate that trigger pull is at most 2lb. It makes an excellent open gun, very light and fast handling, with an excellent grip size. An open gun would not be a carry gun. If you are building an open gun to play specific games why use a gun that gives you a disadvantage. The reason I use an open gun is to give myself every advantage possible. Build your open gun for the games that you play and practice with the carry gun also. I shoot handguns, shotguns, rifle, rimfire rifle, they all have different trigger pulls, but each of them is the best at what they do that I can get them to be, I would not put a trigger pull on any of them that gives me a disadvantage. That is just my opinion. The gun is yours so you should build it the way you want it.

June 30, 2007, 03:12 AM	#1
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	Building and IPSC Open Minor Glock, suggestions Hi there, I am thinking about building an Glock for IPSC Open Division Minor. I have two initial questions to answer and still struggling with them: - Glock 17 or Glock 34? - Docter Sight directly on the slide or C-More with special mount on the frame? If you are interested, have any ideas and can tell me why, I'd be greatful. Have a nice weekend, PB __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

July 1, 2007, 03:09 AM	#3
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	Thanks a lot, yar! Thank you very much yar. Now I have to check for the parts and make up my mind.... __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

July 1, 2007, 10:23 AM	#5
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	oh my If shooting Minor PF forget the comp; just buy a 34. Seriously. www.egw-guns.com for sight advice. (friend currently testing the new stainless frame, but his runs in 40 Major w/Hybriport-dribble tube; forget if he's using the JP or Doc....but he's using one of them) __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

July 3, 2007, 01:37 PM	#10
Bob Hostetter Member Join Date: May 15, 2007 Location: So Calif Posts: 60	There are several guns that can be successfully used for shooting minor loads that aren't 1911/2011 based. Probably the most common is the Glock, which works very well but suffers from the the Glock trigger. You either like them or you don't. The CZ/EAA is also an excellent gun to use. The advantage is a better trigger but the disadvantage is a limited number of aftermarket companies making parts. We are looking at making a line of parts for them but they are still in the planning stages. The XD is also an excellent choice. We build a lot of parts for them and the trigger can be set up very nicely. We currently are putting together a Open one in 9mm complete with a 3 chamber comp and JPoint red dot. If you are going to use a Glock the G17 is the best model to work with but at this point I would recommend the XD over the Glock or the CZ/EAA....... __________________ Bob Hostetter

June 30, 2007, 04:06 AM	#2
yar Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 134	I shoot a open minor glock set up for steel matches. You got a couple of routes. In terms of optics you can get the cmore or the jpoint/doctor. The jpoint is what I use. The doctor is the same except it's got a glass lens. If you do the doctor or jpoint you should have the slide milled so it sits low in the slide or what we call "melted". This way the dot is exactly where you expect the front sight to be. You don't have to change your index/muscle memory and can go back and forth between limited and open. If you get the sight melted you have to get it done in such a way where you can take the sight on and off and keep your zero (stays sighted in). To do this they either mill in some pegs that lock up to the bottom of the sight or mill the cut with the back edge rounded so the sight puzzle fits in. This is a tricky job so expect to pay about $200 to get the slide cut alone. You can also use the dovetail mount for the doctor or jpoint but I don't like them. The sight sits too high and you have to relearn how to point the gun. You will be happier if you get the sight melted. The other route is to go with the cmore. The cmore is a very good dot and will stand up to major ammo. It will sit really high off the gun so again you have to relearn how to point it. SJC makes the only cmore mount worth a damn. It sits lowest on the gune and is stable. Again you have to get the slide milled in the form of having the ehection port lowered. This way it changes the glock from a top ejecting gun to side ejecting gun. Otherwise the case would eject and hit the bottom of the cmore and bounce back into the chamber causing a stove pipe jam. Next you have to choose a comp. you either want a real comp at the end of the barrel or just have the barrel ported. I think the comp really smooths out the recoil and keeps the gun flat. I like the minor comp from SJC. Inexpensive at $75 or so. You will need a long threaded barrel. The SJC has KKM threads so get the KKM barrel. you want to get the fitted barrel not the semi drop in. Get the barrel fitted tight or it will really beat up your gun. I seen a open glock that chewed up the mag catch area of the magazines. A mag would not even survive a match. Short story whichever way you go fitted barrel. The comp will be permently attached to the barrel. It will be glued in like with jb weld. This is nessasary so the comp lines up ture and they can use a smallest possible opening for the bullet to pass through. This makes the comp more efficient. If you had a strait up threaded comp held with set screws such the KKM comp (junk btw) the opening is much larger thus the comp is less effiecent. because you can't take the barrel out the gun anymore it is more difficult to clean. You can tilt the barrel away and run a rod throught it. Then chean out the slide with cotton swabs. Lastly if you go the comp route get the glock 17. Because of the way the comp attaches you get an extra 1" lenght to the gun. Thus if you went with the 34 the gun would be real long. You don't want that. The alternative is just to have the barrel ported. if you go this route you might go with the 34. The porting does do something if it is ported right. Real small ports is what you want like 3 to 4 of them. If the ports are too big they don't seem to do anything. I'm not really framilar with this option as I went with the comp myself. On the well done instances the gun was reasonably flat but there was a lot more felt recoil. Your going to need to run hotter ammo to power the ports properly. The 34 already has the slide cut away. unfortunately i have not shoot a good ported 34. The one i thought was well executed was done on a 17. I really liked how small and quick handling the gun was. Ok that is enought for now. I just typed a damn novel. I can answer specific questions now.

July 1, 2007, 03:49 AM	#4
yar Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 134	Oh and people ask if you see the dot move more than a cmore because it cycles with the slide. The answer is no. The dot does it's little hop strait up and down as long as you do your part with the grip. Open guns are much more grip sensitive than a limited gun. If you grip the gun too hard or two soft the dot will do funny things. Such as make a clover leaf pattern during recoil. If you gip the gun with the correct pressure the dot will do a little hop strait up and down. Don't worry the dot will tell you what your doing. Sometimes when I'm ripping at full speed I make slight adjustement in grip as dictated by what the dot is doing.

July 1, 2007, 07:39 PM	#6
yar Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 134	Ok lets look at the arena of open minor speed shooting which is Steel Challenge. Everyone runs a comp, seriously. It might not be the advanatage it is in major but it is still a sizable advantage.

July 3, 2007, 01:11 AM	#8
pinshooter Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Posts: 26	My friend has a open gun. It is a CZ 75 in 9MM. Compensator and cmore sight. Converted to single action only. If you are building an open gun why use one with a trigger pull like a Glock. Check out the CZ 75. They are reasonably priced and very reliable. Mags are not overly expensive.

July 3, 2007, 04:08 AM	#9
yar Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 134	Prior to building my open glock I wanted to build a open CZ. I could not get anyone to make the comp for me. I went to progressive machine, EGW, all the big names and offered $500 just to one off a comp and then blend it to the slide. Nobody would do it. I even went and asked angus to pull some string and get me a comp from the factory. I tried to buy a complete cz champion (their factory open gun) and they did not have any in stock and could not get any. Angus tried to order 50 of them and they still were no go. Long story short, CZ open gun don't hold your breath. Your friend probably has a EAA tangfolio open gun. It's a CZ clone but not a CZ. I shoot a ton of steel matches like 4-5 a month. I see all types of open minor guns. If you didn't go with a 1911 platform the Glock makes the most sense.

July 4, 2007, 12:28 AM	#12
pinshooter Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Posts: 26	Yar My friends open gun is definitely a CZ 75. The pistolsmith installed a two port comp of his own making. Also the cmore mount was made by the same pistolsmith. I have never seen this firearm malfunction using factory ammo. Trigger was converted to single action. I would estimate that trigger pull is at most 2lb. It makes an excellent open gun, very light and fast handling, with an excellent grip size. An open gun would not be a carry gun. If you are building an open gun to play specific games why use a gun that gives you a disadvantage. The reason I use an open gun is to give myself every advantage possible. Build your open gun for the games that you play and practice with the carry gun also. I shoot handguns, shotguns, rifle, rimfire rifle, they all have different trigger pulls, but each of them is the best at what they do that I can get them to be, I would not put a trigger pull on any of them that gives me a disadvantage. That is just my opinion. The gun is yours so you should build it the way you want it.